George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #13 Thursday July 11

[logicalgirl]

Hello everyone. I was told in the last thread several times that George Zimmerman's own DNA was *not* found on the gun with which he shot TM, therefore the DNA evidence could have been corrupted.


I Googled and found out in fact that isn't true. The evidence remains damning for defense, IMO.


Here's the link:

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/school-records-issue-zimmerman-murder-trial/nYcY3/


So GZ's DNA was on his gun, but contrary to his version of events, there's NO DNA from TM on GZ's gun, nor were there any traces of GZ's DNA on TM's arms. Facts as described in the link provided:

"SANFORD, Fla. —

A DNA expert said Wednesday tests of George Zimmerman's gun revealed the neighborhood watch volunteer's DNA on the firearm's grip -- but not Trayvon Martin's.

Florida Department of Law Enforcement DNA expert Anthony Gorgone testified that none of Zimmerman's DNA was found underneath Martin's fingernails.

Prosecutors called the DNA expert to the witness stand to refute Zimmerman's contention that he fatally shot Martin in self-defense. Zimmerman has said Martin was reaching for his firearm during a fight when he fired the gun into Martin's chest...."

Thank you for re-reminding everyone of these FACTS.
IMO

 

[Love Never Fails]

The Judge hasn't yet ruled....To me, it's absolutely unforgivable that GZ was originally allowed to keep walking free after what he did to a 17 year old boy. And that the public had to make the DA feel ashamed to even get any attempt at seeking justice. What's cruel to me is the brutal unjustified killing of a child, child in the eyes of the law. IMO

We have to agree to disagree. TM was no child. I wish the truth of RJ was known. IMO, and only my opinion, I speculate she egged TM on. She feels guilty, did not call to find out why she hadn't heard fom him, did not attend funeral because of said guilt, and did not tell the truth on the stand.

OMO.

 

[Peepers McPeep]

Wow.
Had a big heapin' helping of Awesome Courtroom Drama with my coffee.
Ninth inning, and the heat is on.

 

[rob]

One very honest question:
I know that all law abiding, mentally sound adults have a right to carry a concealed weapon, in Florida but I must ask...
What is the motivation...why do people feel the need to arm themselves with a CONCEALED weapon (to the grocery store, to the car wash, to the dog park, to the whatever)....What the heck do they fear so much that they need to carry a weapon everywhere except the bar, court rooms, police departments, banks, etc?

I ask WHY?

In SC they are considering, I believe they are calling it 'open carry'. No permit required, hang your holster on your belt, and carry the weapon in full view of everyone. I believe Mississippi is considering the same.
At least then, there's no question of who is armed.

 

[Karmady]

You think so? Man, I would want to get as far away from Florida as possible. Problem is, where can he go that some nut won't try to hurt him? GZ said "thank God" someone had a video of what happened that night. I wish Det Serino had been right when he told George that. But for a politically brought case, even a video would not matter to some people.

He wouldn't have to be physically present in the State for most if not all of the proceedings. jmo

 

[missmazzy]

Guess we both need to relax since we are not on the jury. It is so scary to know trumped up charges could be brought against any one of us. Let's pray the jury sees this for what it is and acquits Mr. Zimmerman.

I agree. Maybe all Floridians who think GZ is not guilty should threaten to riot if he is found guilty via these trumped up charges?

I hope our country doesn't dissolve into mob rule. This case is pretty close, IMO.

 

[marlap]

I dont' think that GZ is awesome either...

I do think he acted in selfdefense. To me that TM does not have injuries just shows me how overpowered GZ was. That he was indeed in fear of great bodily harm and death.
Remember the law is that he only had to have REASONABLE FEAR OF... Not actual injuries or life threatening injuries.

It is horrible no matter what. Tragic.

Glad you posted!

I respect your opinion but IMO, the fact that GZ had a gun means TM was the one who was overpowered.

IMO, TM lashed out at GZ BECAUSE he was in fear.

IMO, TM was trying to defend himself against a stranger with a gun who had been following him.

However, there is no way to PROVE anything either person was thinking or their motivations.

I don't believe GZ's account.

IMO, GZ profiled, followed, and tried to hold TM (by gunpoint, or grabbing him or both), TM lashed out trying to defend himself, and GZ shot him as a result.....

BUT, I agree there is not enough evidence to convict him of 2nd degree murder.

IMO, GZ is guilty of second degree murder, but I would rather one guilty person go free than one innocent person be convicted.

My main hope is that however the jury rules...people will not let anger move them to harass or threaten any party to this trial.

 

[Kip]

One very honest question:
I know that all law abiding, mentally sound adults have a right to carry a concealed weapon, in Florida but I must ask...
What is the motivation...why do people feel the need to arm themselves with a CONCEALED weapon (to the grocery store, to the car wash, to the dog park, to the whatever)....What the heck do they fear so much that they need to carry a weapon everywhere except the bar, court rooms, police departments, banks, etc?

I ask WHY?

Here's a case where an armed customer sent armed robbers at an Internet cafe running:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFGjhVQmyDA"]Customer At Internet Cafe Shoots 2 Robbers, Armed Citizen Stories by FirearmPop - YouTube[/ame]

There are at least two cases I can recall where armed teachers prevented school shootings.

 

[DIBSY]

In my mind there is no doubt - GZ is going to do serious jail time.

Love your optimism....:seeya:
I fear after killing once, he would find it easier next time, if he gets away with it.IMO

 

[Isabelle]

Am I correct that one or two of the Jurors are married to an Attorney?

I was married to a prosecutor in the same city where I was picked to be on jury in a Murder 1 case. I offered the information at the start of questioning. It didn't make a difference. We were sequestered. IMO

 

[danzn16]

Didn't posters who side with Zimmerman say that bruising can stop when you heart stops? That was the excuse for Trayvon not having injuries to his hands, other than the small abrasion to his left non-dominate hand. Clearly, by Trayvon's lack of injuries to his hands, he didn't punch GZ 20-30 times.

So, going with other people's theory of why no bruising on Trayvon's hands, maybe Trayvon was really beaten and the bruising didn't show up due to his death. :twocents:

Can't have it both ways...

Can anyone link to the coroner report about him not having bruising? Haven't seen it yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Didn't posters who side with Zimmerman say that bruising can stop when you heart stops? That was the excuse for Trayvon not having injuries to his hands, other than the small abrasion to his left non-dominate hand. Clearly, by Trayvon's lack of injuries to his hands, he didn't punch GZ 20-30 times.

So, going with other people's theory of why no bruising on Trayvon's hands, maybe Trayvon was really beaten and the bruising didn't show up due to his death. :twocents:

Can't have it both ways...

Actually I can, Because GZ had injuries all over him. HE was the one on the bottom, GZ's hands had no injuries of beating anyone either.

TM got the upper hand from the beginning furthering GZ's need to shoot to get him to retreat and get off.

 

[Maryann123]

Didn't posters who side with Zimmerman say that bruising can stop when you heart stops? That was the excuse for Trayvon not having injuries to his hands, other than the small abrasion to his left non-dominate hand. Clearly, by Trayvon's lack of injuries to his hands, he didn't punch GZ 20-30 times.

So, going with other people's theory of why no bruising on Trayvon's hands, maybe Trayvon was really beaten and the bruising didn't show up due to his death. :twocents:

Can't have it both ways...

You're right. But, as with GZ's head and face there were cuts. Just because you are dead, your cuts don't miraculously heal. We were talking about bruises, not cuts. And TM did have cuts on his hands.

 

[Sweet Fox]

Agree about being livid. I just took another blood pressure pill.

It's Outrageous - Truly Outrageous. This is not a game. An innocent man's freedom is at stake.

 

[Isabelle]

In SC they are considering, I believe they are calling it 'open carry'. No permit required, hang your holster on your belt, and carry the weapon in full view of everyone. I believe Mississippi is considering the same.
At least then, there's no question of who is armed.

Would much prefer carry in full view.

 

[logicalgirl]

there are several things that went wrong. maybe if TM had not been suspended from school and sent to live with his father this would have never happened.

JMO

<modsnip> Even if TM was not suspended from school - if he was there on Easter break - he was still a guest at his father's house. And going to the store to pick up a soda and some skittles should not cost a young man his life.
IMO

 

[DIBSY]

I agree. Maybe all Floridians who think GZ is not guilty should threaten to riot if he is found guilty via these trumped up charges?

IMO.

You mean they haven't? IMO

 

[Isabelle]

You're right. But, as with GZ's head and face there were cuts. Just because you are dead, your cuts don't miraculously heal. We were talking about bruises, not cuts. And TM did have cuts on his hands.

I think TM had a 1/4 inch scratch on one of his knuckles. IMO

 

[eileenhawkeye]

i haven't said much. this because i've found much of the discussion here entirely disconcerting.

it is inconceivable to me that so many folks, the very same ones who were disgusted at the mere thought that anything negative should even be breathed about travis alexander in the arias, have taken to bashing a 17 year old victim of a murder. and that is the fact. argue all you like as to it being something else. trayvon martin did not take his own life that night. george zimmerman murdered him. the baloney excuses, the long, never-ending, maze-like attempts to explain or justify it are not based on legal statutes. i've read dozens of times that those who feel GZ is guilty are merely responding with emotion. i will refrain from calling statements like that what i feel they are, but rather, will point out that those who feel GZ is not guilty are responding to emotion just as much as anyone else. there is simply a difference between what makes one person emotional and what makes another emotional. emotions run high when core beliefs are challenged.

my core beliefs as relevant here: a 17 year old is still a child. in the United States of America, no person should be gunned down for walking down the street. a neighborhood watch person of good intention, particularly a captain, would have immediately informed the operator that he was armed. he would then have called another person in the neighborhood for back up. a 17 year old who was going to go after someone would brag about to the girl on the other end of the phone, and then he would hang up before any punches were thrown. there are more, but this is enough.

i am a well-educated, well-read, intelligent individual. i assume most here are the same. it is glaringly obvious to me that george zimmerman murdered trayvon martin. period. it is a tragedy and it is a crime.

that said, i believe he will be found not guilty. i believe that will be an unjust verdict.

MOST importantly, i believe it is deplorable and frankly unacceptable to see people talking about how riots are going to break out if zimmerman is found innocent. do people truly not see that this is just as much an example of racial profiling as was the one zimmerman engaged in? i've yet to see a single person claim that riots would be break out if zimmerman were found guilty. would it be less disastrous if the angry, gun-toting zimmerman fans rioted? that's sure some interesting logic.

at the end of the day, the parents of a 17 year old have lost their son. they have never claimed he was perfect. i beseech everyone to think of your own 17 year old, or a 17 year old you know. think about that kid. think about that kid not in terms of how you hate the way they dress, or can't stand the slang they use, of how nasty their fb page makes them look....but think about the heart of that 17 year old. for me, this is easy. i've had two at that age so far. i promise you that a 17 year old, at 5'11'' and just over 150 lbs is a lanky, skinny kid and he knows it. a 17 yo who was a good enough brother to be bringing his sibling back a snack from 7-11 (without even opening it to take some for himself, mind you), a 17 year old whose only tattoos were the names of his grandmothers and the name of his mother, that 17 year old was innocent that night when he left the house, and innocent when his life ended on the wet ground.

i predict that trayvon's parents, regardless of the verdict, will make it a mission to deal with the atrocity of a law in florida that all but begs for the murder of innocent human beings. it needs to change.

I agree. There are posts here that act like Zimmerman is as much of a victim as Caylee Anthony.

 

[jane the dood]

I'm not against guns, when used responsibly. My husband is licensed to carry and regularly goes to the shooting range. I've never fired a gun myself, but I have had occasion to take out my husband's (unloaded) gun and show it to some potential "tough guys" wandering my way. They took off. Quickly.

But here's my problem with everybody and their Cousin It being armed: It just makes it too damn easy to fatally shoot someone, and ask questions (or make up stories) later. This case being a perfect example. Maybe George Zimmerman thought he was doing right by his neighborhood, in getting out of his car to see what this young black man was up to. No doubt he regrets the outcome. Me too. But every action has a consequence. By taking an unarmed teenager's life just because he had the audacity to fight back? That's just wrong. And deserves some sort of punishment.

Speaking of Mr. Zimmerman, if I were on this jury (and knew nothing about his background or this case, except what I've heard in court), I would seriously wonder why he isn't testifying in his own behalf. If you were innocent and claiming self defense, wouldn't you want to get on the stand and tell your side of the story? I don't believe for a minute that George Zimmerman ever wanted to do that, regardless of what Mr. O'Mara says. Did you see Zimmerman in court when the judge brought this up yesterday? Zimmerman started sweating. Repeatedly patting his face dry with his handkerchief. That was very telling to me.

I respect and admire all Websleuthers, regardless of opinion. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind...this is my opinion only. I respect yours; please respect mine.

:seeya:

Personally, I'll be glad when this case is over, one way or the other, and we can all get back to throwing virtual spitballs at Jodi Arias!