George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #14 Friday July 12

[FrayedKnot]

Perth, this is a problem - and this is what MOM is trying to overcome. You've watched this trial, I'm sure, and I'm sure you've taken the evidence presented to heart. But after watching this trial you don't realize that the defense doesn't have to prove anything at all. All they have to do is make it clear that the state, who HAS the burden of proof, hasn't proved THEIR side.

Do you see this as a problem? The American Justice system relies on the idea of innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

The idea isn't if there's reasonable reason to believe they are guilty. You have to believe the person has been PROVEN guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

IMHO. I hope the jury gets this difference.

I get what you're saying and I agree that this is how our system does and should work.

But what I am reading in a few of these posts is that nobody saw TM lay a hand on GZ. So saying that GZ shot TM because he was being beaten isn't a fact, but the defendant's testimony. That isn't any more factual than Jodi Arias claiming self-defense. I mean, yes, it could have happened in GZ's case, but we really don't know. Only GZ says so. KWIM?

What really worries me is how easy it would be to just shoot someone, then give yourself a few superficial cuts and scrapes to support a self-defense claim (Darlie Routier sp?). Luckily, it doesn't always work.

I honestly don't know WHAT to think of this case or what to believe. But I do know if GZ had listened to the police, none of this would have happened. MOO

 

[William N]

MOM now claims you can run a mile in four minutes if you're in decent shape?? Does he just make things up as he goes along?

IMO

TM didn't have to run a mile. All he had to do IMO was run back to the apartment he came from.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

I really like this part of the presentation. GO MOM

IMO

 

[faefrost]

so interesting...... where it was always ''justice for travis'' and ''justice for caylee'' etc..... this thread is full of ''justice for GZ.'' i say: ''justice for trayvon.''

so interesting.....many of the folks complaining about BDLR's closing were all but proposing marriage to juan martinez. their styles are very similar. over the course of the trial, JM was far more confrontational and prone to yelling. it was called ''passion'' when he was doing it. is BDLR not allowed to be passionate, too? if JM were criticized on this board the person offering the criticism was all but begging for an onslaught. like i said....interesting.

MOM is putting me to sleep. he's a brilliant attorney. bc of the judge's rulings in this case, he also has an advantage that i personally consider unfair and unjust. the animation should not have been allowed. not a chance. i'm shocked by the decision to play it. still, MOM, with or without the video is certainly a great attorney. however, i find him to be so soft-spoken that he puts me to sleep.

i like passion. the last thing i would want is for an attorney to speak to me, were i a juror, as if we're in the middle of a pillow talk session. in a court of law, where such important issues are at stake, i like strong and forceful. i guess it's different for everyone.

all of above is MOO

The judge kind of backed herself into being forced to allow the video when she refused the reasonable and common defense request for the jury to see the crime scene. The defense was a right to present a view of the crime scene and their theory in context. Especially since the prosecutor presented the Zimmerman walk through video. Failing to allow it in after refusing the earlier requests would have been clear reversible error.

Which is a moot point. Even if he is convicted he will be quickly reversed on appeal because of the other days performance of the judge grilling Zimmerman in front of the jury before the defense had rested. That was misconduct. That was a huge reversible error.

 

[MeeBee]

Good morning sleuthers.

Wow, so it's already over? How quickly do you guys expect a verdict and, IYHO, what do expect the verdict to be? I thought I should reserve judgment until I saw the trial. Unfortunately, what happened is what I expected: I didn't learn anything new or find out anything I didn't already know or that would shed some light on the case. We are left with pretty much the same information that we already had.

God, this is tough. Also, has Jean reported on the jury like she has in past trials? I don't always like it, but her jury reports are often illuminating. Thanks everyone.

 

[cityslick]

And that works for TM also - people keep leaving that part out.....

IMO

TM is not on trial, GZ is. The state has to prove that GZ was not using self defense.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

I'm confused. Was Trayvon required to run from the time he entered the development from the Main Street, run directly to his home with no walking or stopping to prevent his being shot from Good ol' safe George who just wanted to say welcome to the neighborhood?

He didn't of course because he is an American citizen, a guest of his Dad's and had every right to walk the entire way home. Just because he jogged a bit till he was off the road and thought he lost Zimmerman and then contined walking is not lying in wait. I think I am niave about how things are in Florida so I don't know who is allowed to walk home at night by themselves.

He had every right in the world to be on that sidewalk, however he did not have the right to attack another person on that sidewalk.
MOO :twocents::rockon:

 

[saguaro]

Thanks!!! I end up missing bits and pieces because I'm at work and people won't SHUT UP and respect the fact that I'm trying to watch a trial here.

:floorlaugh:

 

[Perthgirl62]

When you're a juror you can believe all of it, some of it, or none of it.

My point exactly. And that would be my right as a juror. But my point is I would personally dismiss all of a witnesses testimony if I thought they were blatantly lying in parts. Perhaps that is because I have personal experience with a pathological liar :liar:

 

[Reality Orlando]

Then why walk away from TM who was beating him up if he didn't think he shot him? He also said after he fired his weapon TM sat up said "you got me" then he didn't know if he pushed TM off or if TM fell over. So, if you know you fired your weapon and the person you fired it at falls over, doesn't that tell you you shot them????? Then he gets on top to see if he has something in his hands and there is no movement but moaning????? REALLY??? where is the logic in that???? He knows he shot him, plain and simple... :twocents:

Having been in very stressful situations in a past profession, I will tell you that it's not as easy as you say. Things happen so fast and so many things are happening at once that once the event ends, it's very hard to piece things back together, especially at first when adrenaline is still high. Any time someone is causing you physical harm/injury, you never know how far things are going to escalate and it can happen instantaneously. I was disabled by a 12 year old and had to leave a job I loved and I was a trained, in-shape professional. Until you're in that situation, it's really hard to understand the dynamics of these type of situations.

 

[Just K]

IMO, it is significant that the defense never called GZ's wife...

 

[Mahouston69]

TM didn't have to run a mile. All he had to do IMO was run back to the apartment he came from.

Why did he have to run home to be safe from being shot?

 

[FrayedKnot]

MOM now claims you can run a mile in four minutes if you're in decent shape?? Does he just make things up as he goes along?

IMO

Roger Bannister would be pizzed. :lol:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I get what you're saying and I agree that this is how our system does and should work.

But what I am reading in a few of these posts is that nobody saw TM lay a hand on GZ. So saying that GZ shot TM because he was being beaten isn't a fact, but the defendant's testimony. That isn't any more factual than Jodi Arias claiming self-defense. I mean, yes, it could have happened in GZ's case, but we really don't know. Only GZ says so. KWIM?

What really worries me is how easy it would be to just shoot someone, then give yourself a few superficial cuts and scrapes to support a self-defense claim (Darlie Routier sp?). Luckily, it doesn't always work.

I honestly don't know WHAT to think of this case or what to believe. But I do know if GZ had listened to the police, none of this would have happened. MOO

The neighbor saw TM over GZ on the ground. GZ did not have the injuries before TM and him collide. He has injuries consistent with getting punched. We know that TM and GZ have an encounter after TM confronts him as per State witness RJ.
She puts them together. And then there is a fight and GZ is injured.
HE had no time to make injuries on himself. His neighbor was out there almost immediately.

TM injured GZ. Even the state can not disprove that.

 

[logicalgirl]

TM didn't have to run a mile. All he had to do IMO was run back to the apartment he came from.

He didn't have to run anywhere - he had the same rights as GZ. IMO

 

[katiewonders]

I missed this in testimony - GZ said no to the COP thing - settles all that cop-wanna-be trash talk. IMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

My point exactly. And that would be my right as a juror. But my point is I would personally dismiss all of a witnesses testimony if I thought they were blatantly lying in parts. Perhaps that is because I have personal experience with a pathological liar :liar:

But that is not the law. The law says that jurors determine what they find credible not anyone else. It can be part or in whole.

 

[Badlands]

UM. No. He is correct but the truth is that it was only yards.. And he was an athlete right? He played football? that TM had to go to get to his house from where GZ last saw him. We also know that TM was home as per RJ and had to have gone back to where GZ was because that is where the fight begins and ends.

No, he's not correct. Only world class athletes can run a mile in 4 minutes.

Yes, Trayvon had time to run home. That doesn't give GZ permission to shoot him through the heart.

IMO

 

[Foxfire]

An aside related to this case.. I spoke with my daughter last evening who works in Broward Sherrif;s offc crime lab, and asked her about the police response occuring re: this case. Her husband, works in Coral Springs PD as a SWAT and Sniper officer, as background.. She told me that of last eveining ALL officers including SWAT were on : Stand by" likening it to when they get a hurricane, and that When this jury goes out to deliberate..ALL officers and SWAT are to be on call and arrive @ the police station..She added that this is similar throughout the state and said, that originally theer was to be a 2 hour notice when jury had reached verdict, but somehow it is now 30 minutes, so officers needed to be in place...Is she worried? yes. That's what I know as of 5pm last eveing...I will certainly update if things change... IMO cause I don't know how to link a mom and 29 yr old kids conversation..

'Plan for the worse case scenario and pray for the best'; Public Safety strategy/motto.. Imo, there will be an acquittal and all hell is gonna break loose...
I live in GA, and the backlash began here 10 days ago as a hit & run, but the truth was only reported in ms media yesterday...
Be safe folks..

4 teens charged in death of Mableton, GA man
http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/22742395/cobb-police-arrest-3-in-mableton-fatal

Posted: Jul 02, 2013 10:51 AM EDT
Updated: Jul 09, 2013 10:51 AM EDT
By MYFOXATLANTA STAFF

 

[William N]

Good morning sleuthers.

Wow, so it's already over? How quickly do you guys expect a verdict and, IYHO, what do expect the verdict to be? I thought I should reserve judgment until I saw the trial. Unfortunately, what happened is what I expected: I didn't learn anything new or find out anything I didn't already know or that would shed some light on the case. We are left with pretty much the same information that we already had.

God, this is tough. Also, has Jean reported on the jury like she has in past trials? I don't always like it, but her jury reports are often illuminating. Thanks everyone.

There's an old saying: "Never anticipate a jury."