George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #2

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Come on guys we can do it!!

Take a breath before posting..

WE are doing great!

 

[MeeBee]

That reminded me of the moment that Juan pulled out the bank statement showing the third receipt for gas cans...

GAH, I will never forget that moment and the look on Jodi's face. Missing me some Juan.

But no, not a good day for the state at all.

 

[gxm]

Exactly. So does that mean George should be completely exonerated since some of his actions led up to the events of that night? That is where I'm at right now.

Did they simply misunderstand each other's intentions? Did Trayvon simply decide to fight George because that's how he has learned to handle people that upset him or wrong him and he did feel threatened by him? I don't think it necessarily means Trayvon was up to no good. The tape from the 7-11 was significant to me. It shows Trayvon meandering a little and that can seem suspicious. But he didn't do anything wrong. Possible same sort of thing happened while he was walking home and GZ jumped to conclusions. It was possibly a horrible misunderstanding gone really wrong.

What a sad case.

Yes. I think it's a case of two young men (and yes, I consider GZ to be a young man) who completely misread each other. I think GZ thought TM was fleeing the scene and did not expect a confrontation. I think TM thought he had the upper hand in the confrontation and did not expect GZ to have a gun on him. Such a horrible, senseless tragedy.

 

[iluvmua]

GZ's father or step father is a Judge, isn't he? Do we know if this has anything to do with charges being reduced, dropped, or the dual restraining orders?

GZ's father is a retired magistrate judge from Virginia.

and there is no evidence to suggest that he helped GZ get off of any charge.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Exactly.

IMO GZ would never have so brazenly continued to pursue TM if he didn't have a weapon on him, he felt powerful having it, like a cop. No way would he have confronted TM without being armed. He was taking the law into his own hands, untrained and unprepared for the consequences. If TM was coming at GZ, why weren't they closer to the truck? GZ pursued him on foot, that is clear.

Here is something that we have to consider though.. He is not being charged with anything else. Not obstruction of justice, not illegally restraining someone, nothing else. I think that if there were really grounds to charge him he would have been charged.

So all that leaves is second degree murder and they are just not there yet. Not for me anyway.

 

[Apollo]

This was a day of good evidence but I think that the defense came out ahead. Even with the PROS, witnesses.

The last witness was a disaster for the prosecution. Way too many negatives about her testimony. I'll take a guess and say that if her sister is on the witness list, she'll be a witness the prosecution decides not to call.

 

[MeeBee]

Oh, I have a question: why does the defense get to question witnesses again after the state's re-direct? Thanks.

 

[m00c0w]

Exactly. So does that mean George should be completely exonerated since some of his actions led up to the events of that night? That is where I'm at right now.

Did they simply misunderstand each other's intentions? Did Trayvon simply decide to fight George because that's how he has learned to handle people that upset him or wrong him and he did feel threatened by him? I don't think it necessarily means Trayvon was up to no good. The tape from the 7-11 was significant to me. It shows Trayvon meandering a little and that can seem suspicious. But he didn't do anything wrong. Possible same sort of thing happened while he was walking home and GZ jumped to conclusions. It was possibly a horrible misunderstanding gone really wrong.

What a sad case.

This is more in alignment with what I believe, believe it or not. However, I feel that the person that started the physical confrontation is the one that should be held culpable. If it was Martin, as Zimmerman alleges, and the beating was as severe as alleged, then I don't believe Zimmerman deserved to die for his mistake. It was when the decision was made to pummel the guy following you where the line was crossed.

If it was Zimmerman, and the state proves its case, I believe he should get the maximum sentence for second-degree murder. I don't think he set out to kill anyone, but if he did initiate the confrontation, it was uncalled for and way out of bounds.

 

[Schuby]

Here is something that we have to consider though.. He is not being charged with anything else. Not obstruction of justice, not illegally restraining someone, nothing else. I think that if there were really grounds to charge him he would have been charged.

So all that leaves is second degree murder and they are just not there yet. Not for me anyway.

I thought manslaughter was a lesser included?

 

[raine1212]

Knock off the arguments.. You guys where doing so good.


I have not had my afternoon coffee yet! :blushing:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

GAH, I will never forget that moment and the look on Jodi's face. Missing me some Juan.

But no, not a good day for the state at all.

I personally loved the look on Her lawyers faces.. they had no idea...

 

[m00c0w]

Oh, I have a question: why does the defense get to question witnesses again after the state's re-direct? Thanks.

They can go back and forth as many times as they want. The defense gets a chance to refute/rebut what the prosecution says, and the prosecution gets the same towards the defense. When the defense starts calling their own witnesses, the prosecution can do the same.

 

[polleypockets]

State coached this witness 45 minutes right before trial?

Is this even allowed?

idk - but imo if you look at every single witness it seems no matter who was helped by their testimony, just about every one has changed their story, idk if we can really put a lot of weight on any of the witnesses for either side imo

 

[iluvmua]

Oh, I have a question: why does the defense get to question witnesses again after the state's re-direct? Thanks.

That is usually how it goes.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I thought manslaughter was a lesser included?

Yes. Sorry.. but I meant anything that applies to breaking any other laws.

 

[MeeBee]

That is usually how it goes.

In the Arias trial it was direct-cross-re-direct and that was it and the crossing lawyer would have a chance to re-cross if the judge decided, which was rare and didn't happen in that trial. It must be different in Florida.

 

[polleypockets]

Wiki is not accurate and anyone can sign up and change things.

It is clear GZ's record of violence was dropped.

I'm trying to find a link to either a article or his actual records.

I don't know they are sealed or not, if they are, this maybe the reason why I can't find his actual records.

the judge isn't allowing any of this in is she? - i thought it was just the 911 calls

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

They can go back and forth as many times as they want. The defense gets a chance to refute/rebut what the prosecution says, and the prosecution gets the same towards the defense. When the defense starts calling their own witnesses, the prosecution can do the same.

Actual I think the get direct, cross, re direct, recross and that is it..

 

[AngelWings444]

Wow. I'm stunned. Did the state not know about her FB page??? And she was clearly trying to avoid answering O'Mara's question.

I wasn't surprised she liked the page on Facebook. It's a big case, local to her area. I will be shocked if most of the witnesses haven't "liked" a page, made comments of some sort, or even donated to the Zimmerman fund. JMO

Having said that, her adding the left to right in her testimony today hurt her credibility. I will believe her first reports to LE though...

 

[Bernina]

Uh, from what authoritative position are you speaking about gun safety in this manner?

It makes absolute sense to have a round always chambered, because you do not know if you will have time to rack the slide to load a round (what if your other arm is injured or unable to successfully pull back the slide?). That's also one less round available to you. Many weapons are manufactured without safeties. I do not see a problem with this, either - it's one less thing to fumble with when it's absolutely necessary to use as quickly as possible. Fine motor function is decreased when adrenaline is pumping. It was in a holster, and isn't just going to go off.

Just my experience as someone proficient with firearms...

CCW card holder til no longer required (Az law change), Arizona, multiple gun owner all my life, bro-in-law LE, etc., etc. But we can agree to disagree.