George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #4

[popsicle]

When I scroll down to that map honestly that seems really far fetched to me.
1. If TM is trying to loose someone why stay in full view on the street. What he said he did and go through back of houses makes more sense. So cut through somewhere IMO.

2. If they took those routes why did TM go past his house? I get the whole you don't want some creepy person to know where you live BUT he thought he lost him and he's at the end "right behind his house". IMO if it were me? I don't care who's home I'm getting myself in that house behind a locked door. Then when he catches up he wouldn't know which house I went into anyway. JMO

I think it says it is a possible route...and I agree with you. The map imo is good to show where the truck was, the home and where this incident happened. Very telling imo.

 

[Lovelymountains]

I'm curious (and this isn't directed at anyone in particular despite that it may fall near a discussion of GZ's injuries) why the "degree" of GZ's injuries is important.

If I'm getting beat up, am I supposed to wait to defend myself until my injuries are sufficient to prove that I was being beaten to "X" degree?

I seem to read/hear a lot of perspectives of, "Yeah, well GZ may have been punched a few times, but TM is dead, so GZ's injuries don't matter because they were minor in comparison." (not word-for-word but you get the idea)

Any snark is unintentional.

IMO the reason the severity of GZ's injuries is important is because it may indicate the truth or falsity of his claims. Being hit in the face 30 times with someone's fist and having one's head repeatedly hit onto a concrete sidewalk should result in certain injuries. Some of us doubt GZ's story of how the injuries occured because we do not think they are severe enough to have happened the way he claims. IMO, the slight wounds on the back of his head could have been scratches from his lying in wait in some bushes to accost TM. The nose injury could have occured from falling, running into an object in the dark, any number of ways. I do not believe they are self-inflicted, but I don't believe he sustained them in the way he claims. Of course I have no way of knowing.

 

[eminent08]

According to you, not according to George IMO

Good point there, maybe we should hear Trayvon’s side of the story… Oh wait, yeah, that’s right, we can’t.
My point: IMO, George’s word isn’t exactly the Bible right now – he’s facing murder charges.

...and he was black.
I live in a white neighborhood. I myself am Hispanic. I had a sedan pick me up one morning to drive me to the airport, the driver stepped out of the car and was talking on his blue tooth while waiting for me, within minutes two cop cars drove up. One of my neighbors actually two different neighbors called and reported "A strange black man" in the neighborhood.
I have never been so angry in my life. In my opinion GZ had this mentality I don't care about the break ins - he saw a black teen and was convinced this was a criminal so much so that he was upset "he was getting away".
TM may have reacted with his teen brain to a man following him and getting in his face with violence not knowing that GZ was ready with a gun.
GZ racially profiled TM, followed him, walked up to him began questioning him, TM probably sent him to hell and COULD HAVE thrown the first punch that then gave GZ permission to shoot and take a life that he had no business taking. END OF STORY. MO

Agreed. I could write a book with similar stories: We’ve lived in our neighborhood for three years now. My husband recently went outside with a hoodie on at night, got into his car, and was on the phone. The police was called because a neighbor called and said an armed black man was breaking into cars, namely our own. Want another? I went jogging at night, wearing a hooded suit because of the rain. The police stopped me after receiving a report that a skinny black man (though I’m all female) was running away from a robbery. That’s just two stories. I won’t bore you with more.


And, even with all that aside. The facts are that an armed man followed, pursued, and shot an unarmed child (well, unless you’re counting skittles).

 

[dani]

As of now, I believe the state has no case and I have no idea if they just went for murder 2nd degree or if they included manslaughter...... but 2nd degree is overcharging if you ask me.

JMO

BBM: They must be serving ice water in hell right now because I am actually AGREEING with you! This is a MANSLAUGHTER case, all the way.:truce:

This is a chart of Florida sentencing terms:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_punishments_for_murder_in_the_United_States#Florida

 

[m00c0w]

I wouldn't know. Not wanting to put one's name out there to be picked at by vultures isn't unnatural, however, and doesn't make it untrue.

It doesn't make it untrue, but single-source reporting isn't exactly reliable on its face.

 

[PaintingAnemone]

It doesn't make it untrue, but single-source reporting isn't exactly reliable on its face.

The job was also under-the-table work at illegal parties (raves, maybe?). I wouldn't want to give my name if I was basically admitting to running an illegal business, lol.

 

[Bernina]

You are not guilty of anything until convicted.

A pissy girlfriend can call and make all sorts of unfounded domestic violence allegations, and it means nothing unless there is a conviction.

Hate to disappoint you but if you call LE with any type of complaint, a record is made of it. The complainant and the "suspect" (for lack of a better term) are given ID #'s in the contacted LE's computer. Those ID's follow those individual on every proceeding call that is made into that LE's system. If someone enjoys "false reporting", their ID is "red flagged". If they are involved in sketchy behavior, they are noted as "A person of interest" which LE will see the minute they run that individual's name through their system. There needs to be NO CONVICTION, but if something comes up in the future that involves an alleged crime, da*m skippy, the Pro is going to pull EVERY incident report with your ID# connected with it. They will investigate EVERY report ever called in.
So, if a pissy GF makes numerous calls of "unfounded" DV, and then there IS a verified DV act, ALL those reports are going to hit the Pro's desk and you're looking at a stiffer sentence. Unfounded, convicted, plead out, reduced, diverted or dropped, doesn't matter,.
Not going to argue, this is NOT my opinion, this is common knowledge from several family members in LE or former LE.

 

[TexMex]

IMO two people were on a sidewalk, began to fight and the one legally carrying a firearm defended himself after sustaining head lacerations and a fractured nose.

 

[iluvmua]

BBM: They must be serving ice water in hell right now because I am actually AGREEING with you! This is a MANSLAUGHTER case, all the way.:truce:

This is a chart of Florida sentencing terms:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_punishments_for_murder_in_the_United_States#Florida

IMO, this has to be proven to be a manslaughter case, as of now, this is still a self defense case.

This is definitely not a 2nd degree murder case

JMO

 

[corundogs]

so TM shouldn't have gone to his dad's gf's home. and he shouldn't have tried to gain access to another unit b/c he knew being black "that would never fly". but he felt threatened from being "chased", right? then why --considering a lack of other available options according to you at least-- didn't he call 911? why did he place himself in a position to encounter GZ??

also, you just stated above that the fact that TM was black would've and should've made him suspicious to home-owners in the neighbourhood if he tried to seek help at someone's door. so why was it wrong for GZ to find him suspicious? considering that it was a known fact that AA had been responsible for break-ins in the area?

I answered this why didn't he call 911 question already. You can go back and read it...but IMO, black men have a built in distrust of law enforcement and won't call. I am not saying he was in fear of his life, thinking he was going to die. I can be afraid of something without thinking I was going to die.

I had a HUGE wall cloud - like those seen in Oklahoma - pass directly over my home last night. I was scared out of my mind!!!

Did I think I was going to die? NO!!!

I happen to believe that a young black man running up to someone's door on a rainy night saying "I am being chased...let me in" would be strange and as a single woman, I would not let them in. I would call 911, and I would stay with them...but I wouldn't let them in my house. I wouldn't let a white kid either. I am a single disabled woman. It's very possible it's true, but can you take that chance being on the otherside of that door? I mean, people use all kinds of excuses to gain access to someone's home and then cause them harm. We have heard it and are told be on guard. Demand identification of any utility people or workers, etc.

I said also that I didn't like that it was the state of society...but that's the way it is. Bad people - white and black - have caused that. We can no longer just accept what anyone says at face value and react accordingly. I don't own a gun. My Dad does, and they are in my home...but I have no access to them and don't know where they are (though if I went searching, there are only so many hiding places and I am sure I could find them)

That does NOT mean the same thing as seeing a young black man walking outside. I would not have the same distrust of some black kid walking outside in the rain as I do of some black kid running up to my door and saying "someone is following me, let me in". Sadly, I think too many people feel differently.

I hope that explains my thoughts. It's truly what I believe. If I am wrong, so be it...

 

[ncgramma]

I was just googling to see if I could find the distance in feet that TM's body was from the sidewalk (not found that yet).

But I found this site, someone did some testing. It is interesting-

http://www.evidencetrail.net/3-the-shell-casing-and-the-body.html


*Think this is OK to post, Mod(s) let me know if not.

It was interesting. Thanks! The only problem is that we have no idea how far or in which direction TM was moved. Not sure we've learned too much but it sure was a valiant try.

 

[m00c0w]

The job was also under-the-table work at illegal parties (raves, maybe?). I wouldn't want to give my name if I was basically admitting to running an illegal business, lol.

Fair point. When we were having the discussion before the forum closed down last year, someone suggested that it might have been strip parties. Since it's illegal in Florida for alcohol to be served in locations with totally naked females, sometimes illegal parties would take place in residential areas. It was suggested this may have been what he was "guarding".

In any case, my only point is that we don't know this person or what motives they may have to disclose this information, or even where they got the information from.

I do agree that 2005 sounded like a rough year for some reason. But, I will add, that was 6-7 years prior to the shooting and there were no other incidents in that timespan.

 

[iluvmua]

Did the state include manslaughter charges as well? or just 2nd degree murder charges?

 

[popsicle]

IMO the reason the severity of GZ's injuries is important is because it may indicate the truth or falsity of his claims. Being hit in the face 30 times with someone's fist and having one's head repeatedly hit onto a concrete sidewalk should result in certain injuries. Some of us doubt GZ's story of how the injuries occured because we do not think they are severe enough to have happened the way he claims. IMO, the slight wounds on the back of his head could have been scratches from his lying in wait in some bushes to accost TM. The nose injury could have occured from falling, running into an object in the dark, any number of ways. I do not believe they are self-inflicted, but I don't believe he sustained them in the way he claims. Of course I have no way of knowing.

If GZ was hiding in bushes waiting for TM, how would he have known that TM was going to turn away from the home and double back going north?

 

[sacrablue]

12 years in USA and speak no English.

 

[popsicle]

It was interesting. Thanks! The only problem is that we have no idea how far or in which direction TM was moved. Not sure we've learned too much but it sure was a valiant try.

per testimony he was turned on his left shoulder and then onto his back. imo

 

[Wolfpack Fan]

Whether Trayvon was on the top or the bottom, I cannot figure out how he ended up on his stomach when he was shot in the chest. Nobody has testified that he/she saw any movement from Trayvon after he was shot or that George moved him. The only thing the last person said she saw was George Zimmerman getting up. If it had been George on top, Trayvon would have ended up on his back. If Trayvon had been on top, he would have fallen on top of George, and George would have had to pull himself out from under Trayvon. If George had been on top of Trayvon's back, Trayvon would have been shot in the back.

 

[shadedwillows]

What was the name of the garbage man from the Casey Anthony case? WAs it Crump or something similar?

I'm fairly certain that you have had responses to you question, however I've just started reading this thread. In the Anthony case; the man's name is Roy Kronk and he was/is a meter reader. Interesting how the names are indeed similar.

 

[ljs713]

Did the state include manslaughter charges as well? or just 2nd degree murder charges?

Manslaughter is an option for the jurors.

 

[sacrablue]

Neither of which was he convicted of in a court of law.

Let's give him a gun permit. Model citizen.