George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #5

[Lovelymountains]

You mean the ones that aren't marked or cut/bruised because they were most likely, IMO, being pinned down by TM's knees. Believe me, when TM's weight shifted, IMO, or something else happened to give GZ the freedom of movement he needed, he wasn't going to punch the attacker, he was going for the gun to protect his life. It is understandable how RZ's hands were unmarked, IMHO.

Have you seen TM's hands after this battle where he punched GZ in the face 30 times? (According to GZ) TMO

 

[I Must Break You]

Ok, however... TM was well within his rights to protect himself with bodily force from someone who was clearly PURSUING him ... in the dark ... for no apparent reason. GZ would have been well within his rights to stand down and let the police handle things.

I don't agree with that. Your not within your rights to turn around and attack someone who is following you. You can turn around and ask what they are doing, or within your rights to continue to flee from the person or contact 911, but you can't just turn around and jump on the person and start hitting them... that makes you the aggressor.

 

[Just K]

The part I have bolded is not strictly true. At Trayvon's autopsy, he was said to weigh 158 and to be 5'11' in height. When GZ was seeing his doctor the following day, he was described as 5'7 1/2", and weighed 204 pounds. So Trayvon was 46 pounds lighter, and only 3 1/2" taller. GZ was slightly the shorter that night, and by far the heavier.

Exactly, bigger can mean wider and heavier or it can mean taller and/or heavier.

TM was smal ler in weight and bigger in height.
GZ was smaller in height and bigger in weight.

So, the prosecution needs to ask these people who saw it from the side and/or the back, was bigger in girth or height.

That would clarify things much more. And when you see them 20-30 feet away, in the dark, when they see two shadowy figures that may have even been a dog. In JG's case he is saying that it was in this manner, 20-30 feet away, in the dark, from a side view with the heads facing the poop dispenser or the "T", he could see that TM was black. This is the part I do not believe at all.

 

[gracielee]

Here ya go gracielee...

http://www.youtube.com/user/croakerqueen123/videos

Thank you! :seeya: I have to figure out how to save this site. :rockon:

 

[Chester_from_THM]

"George Zimmerman Reenactment Of Trayvon Martin Shooting (Part 1)" - starts with GZ and police officer/detective (?) at 2:20.

George Zimmerman Reenactment Of Trayvon Martin Shooting (Part 1) - YouTube

Trayvon was "circling [my] car," according to GZ (6:20).

IMO, George knew there had been break-ins in the past, and was trying to protect his neighborhood, as he was on the neighborhood watch.

Dispatcher said to him, "Can you get to somewhere where you can see him?" I don't think it would have progressed to where it did if this had not been said. :twocents:

George told the LEO that is what the dispatcher said, but that is not in fact the wording on the tape, that I can find anyway.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj7qEcD8R-8"]George Zimmerman 911 Call To Stanford Police Department - YouTube[/ame]

@2:13
GZ: "He's running'
Disp "Which way is he running?"
GZ: "Down towards the entrance to the neighborhood"
Disp "Ok, which entrance is he heading towards?"
GZ: "Back entrance" [GZ sounds out of breath, wind sound in phone]

@2:27 "Are you following him?" [wind sounds on phone]
"Yea"
"Ok we don't need you to do that"
"Ok"

 

[Karmady]

I guess the Florida courts think they have to make up for the Casey Anthony trial. I also noticed the judge's snippiness, very unprofessional. Does not help the imagine of Florida courts at all.

Also, I did not know there have been a home invasion in that community till I watched the GZ interview. A women alone had to lock herself in with her child. I am sure this community was on edge.

And George helped her.

Snipped from the link~

A group of young men had just broken into Bertalan's town house as she and her infant cowered in a locked bedroom. The intruders took a $600 camera and a laptop. After police had come and gone, the doorbell rang, and there was Zimmerman: 5 feet 9, in a shirt and tie, his body a little doughy, his demeanor gentle.

He introduced himself and gave her phone numbers at which she could call him anytime. He gave her a heavy-duty lock to bolster the sliding-glass door that the men had forced open. He told her she could stay with his wife down the street if she ever felt scared again.

"That first impression was really sweet," Bertalan, 21, said this week. "It really does break my heart how they're portraying him as a coldblooded murderer."

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar/28/nation/la-na-zimmerman-profile-20120329

 

[sysmanager1963]

For those of you who followed the Jodi Arias trial isn't it refreshing to have lawyers apologize and be respectful, sessions on Friday and a judge that says "NO" when asked if they can approach! Every time a witness is finished (which seems like no time at all compared to JA) I'm expecting a break or the judge to say we are done for the day for this reason or other. I do agree that the judge does seem kindof snippy though. Rather have this than the circus in AZ.

 

[Nana46]

Just got here..can someone tell me what was meant if O'mara said he wanted to talk to this last witness at lunch? Is that allowed? TIA

 

[missmazzy]

I know if it were me I would of reported the suspicious activity and stayed in my car until police arrived. Why put yourself in what could be a dangerous situation?

Oh yes, I would never have been in that position to begin with, I would have gone back home! I was commenting on being beaten up and if I would defend myself. I would.

 

[AZWatcher]

I don't agree with that. Your not within your rights to turn around and attack someone who is following you. You can turn around and ask what they are doing, or within your rights to continue to flee from the person or contact 911, but you can't just turn around and jump on the person and start hitting them... that makes you the aggressor.

Not if you are on the move and the AGGRESSOR is PURSUING YOU. Obviously, his wording was unfortunate but it conveyed FEAR. TM was in FEAR.

 

[popsicle]

This is solely my own opinion, and no witness that was present has ever said this but I clearly hear "Don't shoot!" in the 911 call. Again this is just my opinion of what is in the call.

FBI and everyone else had been over those tapes and no one else heard that. It is weird how we sometimes hear different things like that though, huh?

 

[Donnareit]

Yup, and I would of keep on running or walking fast, getting out of the entire area. If I was by my house during this point in time, I probably would of went inside.

Speaking as a woman, walking in the dark with someone obviously following me, who showed up again AFTER I had run from them, would be terrifying. IMO many men cannot imagine that sort of fear because they are usually not preyed upon and can walk around, if not safe from strangers at least confident they can protect themselves physically. One big difference in my case would be I might go up to the nearest place with someone home, knock on the door, and expect some help. I might also call 911 and expect the police would believe me that I was in danger. I doubt TM considered either of those options because for a African American male teenager they mostly would be ignored. :truce:

 

[Beyond Belief]

I feel like we are right back to the beginning. I have very strong feelings about how this was portrayed by the media and other so called public leaders. Now i'll shut up. IMO

 

[PaintingAnemone]

Dispatcher said to him, "Can you get to somewhere where you can see him?" I don't think it would have progressed to where it did if this had not been said.

Do you have a link/reference for this? The transcript that I've seen doesn't include anything about the dispatcher telling GZ to do this. Here is a link of the transcript, for reference.

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/326700/full-transcript-zimmerman.pdf

 

[iluvmua]

I have. I find it hard to believe GZ hadn't (likely on several occasions) while skulking around at night (with a gun in his pocket) LOOKING FOR TROUBLE ... thought the scenario through. He was in pursuit... It had to have occurred to him that if he kept up his pursuit... there could be an altercation.

I don't think he was looking for trouble, if he was, was he looking for trouble on any of his other 911 calls?

I don't think so

JMO

 

[Donnareit]

FBI and everyone else had been over those tapes and no one else heard that. It is weird how we sometimes hear different things like that though, huh?

The first word I think I hear is, "Mom!" But it also sounds like, "Stop,"

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Ok, however... TM was well within his rights to protect himself with bodily force from someone who was clearly PURSUING him ... in the dark ... for no apparent reason. GZ would have been well within his rights to stand down and let the police handle things.

What was he defending himself from?

 

[Karmady]

George told the LEO that is what the dispatcher said, but that is not in fact the wording on the tape, that I can find anyway.

George Zimmerman 911 Call To Stanford Police Department - YouTube

@2:13
GZ: "He's running'
Disp "Which way is he running?"
GZ: "Down towards the entrance to the neighborhood"
Disp "Ok, which entrance is he heading towards?"
GZ: "Back entrance" [GZ sounds out of breath, wind sound in phone]

@2:27 "Are you following him?" [wind sounds on phone]
"Yea"
"Ok we don't need you to do that"
"Ok"

There is the NEN audio and the 911 audio after the call was transferred. I don't know if you're link has the complete audio of both, but I've seen partial audios before, so maybe that's the issue. jmo

 

[twall]

Not if you are on the move and the AGGRESSOR is PURSUING YOU. Obviously, his wording was unfortunate but it conveyed FEAR. TM was in FEAR.

If he was so afraid why didn't he call 911?

 

[DIBSY]

Do you think Rachel had embellishments? She heard wet grass. Credible? .

Very much so since another witness yesterday said she heard noises very similar to that heard by Rachel Jeantel.
Jenna Lauer said

“I just heard whoever was out there scuffling around...it sounded like sneakers on pavement and grass," said Lauer. "Like someone was running on the pavement and on the grass[ /COLOR] -- it sounded like that."

The scuffling turned to yelps, which then turned into cries for “help,” according to Lauer.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/0...y-determine-george-zimmerman-trial-day-4-fate