George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #5

[AmorAlways]

But there isn't any evidence that this is what happened. Where is the evidence that TM saw or knew that GZ had a gun? Also, TM ran while GZ was still in the car. GZ didn't present a threat to TM at that point in time, he was just sitting in his car.

Cant necessarily say what is threatening to one person or another.
Correct, There is no evidence that TM saw a gun or knew he had one.

IMO Normally, I would run or walk faster if I saw a car slowly following me or staring at me. Or felt that is what they had been doing.

 

[iluvmua]

i have a feeling it will be manslaughter, i think from what i read, the state does have that proved imo

The judge has to add the manslaughter charge, The state just went straight to second degree murder.

JMO

somebody please correct me if I'm wrong

 

[faw720]

What about Trayvon's right to defend himself? If you see someone following you and you run and they're still there and you see a weapon you have reason to fear your life. Fight or flight. He tried flight (we know this because Zimmerman said Trayvon ran on the 911 tape) so fighting would be the next step. Are you implying Trayvon should have let Zimmerman just shoot him?

You can't shoot someone just because they got the best of you, if that's the case a lot more people would be dead. You don't bring a gun to a fist fight. Especially with a child. Secondly if Zimmerman wasn't looking for trouble why was his safety not on? He's going to Target right?? Was he planning on shooting someone in the supermarket?

I'm still on the fence. Right now I would say that both GZ & TM were both looking for trouble & sure enough they found it. Very unfortunate all the way around!

 

[WhoaIsMe]

True enough and I just heard on HLN that it was a mere two minutes between the time GZ phoned the non-emergency services ( wasn't worried it was serious cause he had the GUN :moo: ) and the first Emergency 911 calls reporting the violence.

Not enough minutes/seconds for TM to retrieve his fallen phone and report a blessed thing. :maddening::maddening::moo:

I have to disagree on what can transpire in two minutes because we now know that a man can be stabbed nearly thirty times and have his throat slit, all while he is fighting to get away, in that time frame.


Sent from my SGH-S959G using Tapatalk 2

 

[cityslick]

Please don't take my words out of context. I said, I would be freaking out if I killed anyone. Also, the fact is that Trayvon was a TEEN. Killing someone, anyone, including a teenager, should have had an effect on GZ in some way..but he was cool as a cucumber. "Call my wife and tell her I shot someone".

I wasn't talking about the JURY having emotion, I was talking about GZ's lack of emotion. That is evidence and it goes to his state of mind.

All JMO!

Yes, it's called shock. Also, for as biased as Shaeffer is, he just said that the first words out of GZ's mouth to the witness (Manelo) was I defending myself and shot him. That has the most weight, since it was said right after the incident.

 

[Lovelymountains]

He ran into a tree/object before he encountered TM or during the chase?

I think it was during the chase, but I can't cite it. It was on this forum earlier yesterday, as I recall. IMO

 

[AZWatcher]

I have a feeling this will be a not guilty or a hung jury. It will bother me if it is because I can't get out of my head, and heart, that GZ is the one who started all this. TM would not have died had GZ not been there. Self defense or not, this all happened because of GZ putting himself in this position because some young man is standing in the rain instead of trying to get out of it. I will feel really bad for TM's family, well, I feel for them anyways. Ugh!

You know, this really is the bottom line. TM certainly did not pursue GZ. Had GZ done what he was told to do by the NEN dispatcher. We wouldn't be here. At this point who was on top and who had a broken nose isn't even relevant to me. If GZ didn't get out of his car that night... TM would have made it home with the damned Skittles. The whole thing sucks.

 

[polleypockets]

Maybe his hand wasn't over his mouth the entire time?

And then how did the injuries get there?

i am not saying there wasn't a scuffle, imo if he tried to detain tm, there would have been, because tm could have thought he was being attacked and needed to defend himself, but the story gz is saying now that tm circled back. hid in the shadows so he could ambush and kill gz is pure fairytail imo

 

[JudyBolton]

For everyone here who keeps saying it was "just a fist fight" and GZ should not have defended himself...do you remember the Giant's baseball fan who was beaten up after Dodgers game (with just fists)? He was in a coma for months and 2 years later still cannot care of himself.... Bryan Stow (google it).

 

[SuperTmo]

BBM, could you provide a link for that claim?

It does not need a link, it is based upon testimony of the one witness who was aware of the circumstances prior to any other witness seeing/hearing anything. It's not my opinion. He pursued Travyon, because he got out of his vehicle and followed him. He ran after him, which is what started the confrontation. He got the ball rolling on all of this. He <according to a witness> did something that caused TM to say, "get off me." And he brought the gun.

 

[AngelWings444]

Doesn't GZ tell the dispatcher to have police call him when they get there? Seem to remember that from the 911 call.

Yes. He knew they were on the way, was told not to follow Trayvon, and GZ requested a follow up phone call from LE. When reporting a suspicious activity to LE, you do NOT have to have them contact you back. IMO - GZ wanted to be the hero. He fully expected Trayvon to be "on drugs, up to no good, &*%#$ punk" that always gets away. GZ was very wrong.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

No way. If he thinks he was being beat to the point he was going to die, he would have gone to the ER no matter what. After all, he perceived his injuries to be putting him on the brink of death, and he had to kill this kid to survive... That's pretty serious. He would have dealt with the insurance later. Besides, there is such a thing as crime victim compensation, which handles things of this sort.

How do you know?

 

[Lovelymountains]

And equally well if TM hadn't inflicted those injuries on GZ. Hindsight is 20/20...

Mr. Finkelstein, that is just your IMO that TM inflicted those injuries, isn't it? Or do you just take GZ's word without question>

 

[cityslick]

You know, this really is the bottom line. TM certainly did not pursue GZ. Had GZ done what he was told to do by the NEN dispatcher. We wouldn't be here. At this point who was on top and who had a broken nose isn't even relevant to me. If GZ didn't get out of his car that night... TM would have made it home with the damned Skittles. The whole thing sucks.

And this is ultimately what I brought up yesterday. There are a number of people that blame/condemn GZ for the simple fact of getting out of his car. I agree it was a dumb thing to do, it doesn't make him guilty of murder/manslaughter/or any other charge.

 

[iluvmua]

You know, this really is the bottom line. TM certainly did not pursue GZ. Had GZ done what he was told to do by the NEN dispatcher. We wouldn't be here. At this point who was on top and who had a broken nose isn't even relevant to me. If GZ didn't get out of his car that night... TM would have made it home with the damned Skittles. The whole thing sucks.

So everything is George's fault because he got out of his car??????

might as well just have no verdict, render him guilty and send him to prison.

Thank God this is not how the law works.

:banghead:

JMO

 

[Landonsmom02]

Question for anyone with medical knowledge:

If GZ was provided an ice pack or something of the sort at the PD would that have caused the swelling to decrease in that amount of time? what was it like 3-4 hours??

Just trying to understand the difference in photos.

Yes ice decreases swelling. We always tell out patients to use ice instead of heat when they have edema(swelling). But his best response would have been to alternate using ice every 20 mins or so. Did this happen?? IDK?? It would be a good thing to know the exact time frame from the bloody nose at the scene to when the PD pics were taken. IMO, the swelling could have gone down with ice and anti-inflammatories(Ibuprofen,naproxen). IMO, the pics were not photoshopped.

 

[cityslick]

Mr. Finkelstein, that is just your IMO that TM inflicted those injuries, isn't it? Or do you just take GZ's word without question>

Evidence shows GZ was in a fight. Testimony shows TM was on top of GZ hitting him.

If there is evidence that shows GZ running into a mailbox or falling on a bush, I'd love to see it.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

You know, this really is the bottom line. TM certainly did not pursue GZ. Had GZ done what he was told to do by the NEN dispatcher. We wouldn't be here. At this point who was on top and who had a broken nose isn't even relevant to me. If GZ didn't get out of his car that night... TM would have made it home with the damned Skittles. The whole thing sucks.

He wasn't told to do anything. Please stop repeating this falsehood. non emergency 9-11 does not tell people what to do, give orders or instructions. Facts matter.

 

[Maryann123]

if you listen to the tape. gz claims tm has his hand over his mouth and is "BANGING" his head into the pavement while saying he was going to kill him. imo that would result in more that just 3 superficial cuts that did not require stitches, per the medical report i have posted many times - and how could gz be screaming like he said if tm had his hand over his mouth??

When your head hits a sharp edge, even a tiny cut bleeds like crazy. When your head hits a hard flat surface, you don't necessarily bleed. Look at all the goose eggs children suffer. I would never say it was nothing, nor would I say it didn't hurt. When your head is struck repeatedly on a surface such as a sidewalk, you would expect exactly what we saw with G's head. A lot of abrasions, and a lot of lumps. My husband was hit in the head with a baseball bat when the guy on deck took a practice swing. His eyes were black for nearly a month, and his sinuses are messed up to this day. He didn't bleed a drop.

 

[sickofitAll]

People keep bringing up George getting out of the car...So what...He got out of his car and watched Trayvon...possibly asked him a question...Why didn't Trayvon just tell him his father lived there?