George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #5

[popsicle]

how was tm looking for trouble??? he was just walking home from 711 w/ candy and a drink and was 70 yards from his house?? - he didn't rob the 711 or mug any old ladys on his walk did he?

Because he didn't just go home?? Instead he physically attacked a man who was not physically engaging him in any way. imo

 

[AZWatcher]

Right!! He didn't know GZ fr Adam, for all he knew, he could be a local gang member or a rapist or a thief .....imv

In my experience with teenage boys ... The tougher the talk.. The more they are in fear. JMO

 

[DIBSY]

:blushing:Thank you all. Great to see such a civil site for discourse on this tragic case.

:gthanks:

IMHO, for all the hoopla over the media photos of an underaged TM, GZ's own choice of action showed that TM wasn't as menacing as he appeared to GZ then as he is now made out to be because GZ decided to "take him on" right there on the spot, instead of staying in his truck and letting LE take care of the situation as advised in fear of his own safety, i.e. GZ's own gauge of the relative power situation between the two at the time suggests (correctly) to GZ that he would prevail. So again, it didn't make sense that for 2 minutes, TM suddenly turned from a weaker, running target into a strong, powerful, ruthless killing machine able to inflict lethal injuries to GZ before he was shot dead. 2 minutes of scuffles resulting in minor swelling and scratches doesn't add up to an assessment of potential lethal force. As an MMA practitioner, GZ must have endured much tougher and longer bouts of fighting.

For sure. His forte! :moo:

 

[nnglas]

It could be as simple as both of them were on top at different times.

Exactly. Every street fight I have ever seen invariably ended up looking like a wrestling match. It would absolutely explain why all the witnesses so far have seen either on top at different times.

Which is why I don't believe the head banging on sidewalk repeatedly. A witness just testified GZ had grass on his back and was wet. I have yet to figure out how you have grass on your back from a cement sidewalk.


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[lil_buddy]

Horace - Please be nice to posters that may be new to the case!

I said it yesterday and I will say it again...you may choose to ignore people and move on...This semantics lesson you feel necessary to give everyone can be done with a better tone.

Yes indeed it was a request, "we do not need you to do that" Agreed! However George continued to do what he wanted... and to some it may feel offensive that he chose to use his own protocol in this matter...

This is a discussion thread after all, not a debate where someone has to be a winner!

JMO! Have a nice weekend all!

It's funny this whole augment about whether emergency/nonemergency issues orders that must be followed. Who really thinks you're legally obligated to follow 911 operators' instructions? You follow because you are in an emergency situation and need help. It is implied that they are telling you to do the safest, wisest thing.

I don't even understand why I need to state this as it is so obvious.

 

[AngelWings444]

Regardless of what he should have had to do or not, I believe he easily could have escaped.

It seems like we're moving the goalposts. One person says TM could have escaped, then we get into "Why should he have to?"

It's two different things. To me, he easily could have run away from GZ. If he were intent on getting away from GZ, GZ would never have been close to him. imo

And i mean in the sense of escaping in fear, like if someone is chasing you with a chainsaw or something (dumb example) and you are desperately trying to get as far away from them as possible, if he were trying to flee in that sense, there's just no way GZ would have caught up to him.

Thanks Horace. But, my question was WHY do you feel like it's "obvious" that Trayvon circled back?

Is there evidence that Trayvon "circled" back? Yes or No...said in my best Juan voice.

 

[sacrablue]

The improper way to determine if a person is up to no good.
Make observation
Grab your gun and follow the suspicious person
Dial 911 and report the person and ignore their directions
Continue to follow the person until an incident breaks out
When it looks like your going to get your can beat, shoot and kill the person
Done... no need for a police report

 

[gracielee]

I've lost track now, is this jury sequestered or not?

 

[Nymeria]

Incorrect. They didn't tell him not to follow him. This was covered in testimony by the non emergency 9-11 operator. They do not give instructions.

Deep down you KNOW it does not matter if it was an instruction or a suggestion. The meaning still implies "PLEASE DO NOT FOLLOW".
And legally they have to suggest and not order (but the suggestion should be taken as a valid instruction).

George himself says "OK" implying agreement.
Do you think he meant "OK" in the negative?

For the life of me I can not see how this is still being argued over and over.
It seems so logical to understand.

*ALL IMO*

 

[Lovelymountains]

How does the number of face blows keep increasing? First someone said it was 20, now it's 10 more? Has an actual number ever been said?

As I recall, GZ said 20 to 30 times. IMO

 

[missmazzy]

why didn't gz tell him he was w/ neighborhood watch??

...because he was a jerk. TM was also a jerk. This never should have happened. Two testosterone-fueled idiots trying to prove who is the bigger man.

I say that not to offend, but it's frustrating to know a young man is dead and another man's life is ruined. All because neither would back down.

 

[iluvmua]

:moo:

Yes. What does this have to do with this case though?

Things that make it easy to assume GZ is lying:
1) GZ has made several contradictory statements.
2) His version of events do not make sense.
3) His version of events cannot be corroborated.
4) He doesn't want to be convicted.

:moo:

And this is exactly what the Prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and so far they have shown nothing (according to the evidence so far) that George's story of how he says it went down is total BS.

JMO

 

[lil_buddy]

People keep saying "KID" or "CHILD" like it makes it impossible for Martin to have been a credible threat to Zimmerman's life.

Yeah and people keep saying "UNARMED" and "SKITTLES" like it makes it impossible for Martin to have been a credible threat to Zimmerman's life.

People! I tell ya.

 

[Lovelymountains]

Flesh hitting flesh results in scrapes and bruises? Always? I'm not sure about that at all.

And are you saying your theory that GZ self-inflicted his wounds?

I never said GZ inflicted his own wounds. I don't believe he did. I think he acquired them accidentally. Thank you.

 

[sickofitAll]

but there is absolutley no evidence saying that tm circled around at all

Trayvon ran...How did they meet up again...G.Z. wouldn't have been able to catch him...so obviously Trayvon came back to confront him...imo

 

[Landonsmom02]

According to RJ, TM did reach his father's fiancee's house, or at least he said he was in back of it. So that was his goal. However, again according to RJ, GZ followed him there and they spoke to each other. Then the phone fell, according to RJ and she heard TM ask why GZ was following him and GZ ask TM what he was doing there. So I believe he did attempt to go home and was almost there, but was forced back by GZ toward GZ's vehicle, but after about 70 feet, TM attempted to escape this false imprisonment and it was then that GZ shot him. This theory answers every question. If we believe RJ, and I do, TM almost made it home to safety.

IMO, I don't know if I believe everything that was supposedly said between TM/RJ? I always tell my DH that I am almost home, when in fact I'm still about 20 mins away.LOL Being in back of the house could be in back of the entire building in which the townhome was located? I guess the point I was trying to make is, if in fact, TM was truly scared of GZ and was afraid, he would have made it inside the house and if GZ tried to detain him, he could have simply stated, this is my dad's house. This whole case is sad, and as other posters have stated both individuals could have done things that would have rendered a better outcome.

 

[m00c0w]

As I recall, GZ said 20 to 30 times. IMO

I have checked his written report, and I checked the walkthrough. No number is mentioned.

I'm very curious as to where these numbers came from.

 

[Arishia]

People keep saying "KID" or "CHILD" like it makes it impossible for Martin to have been a credible threat to Zimmerman's life.

That may be a misunderstanding. Some probably mean that, and some might mean that TM was an adolescent with adolescent judgement and reminds us of our own children, whom we want protected. I guess, as a woman, I see a young man... like my children used to be. Strong and unfinished, but so unlucky that night. It's heartbreaking. I don't know what happened that night, who did what exactly, but I do know it's a tragedy for both. It seems like some kind of weird fate.

 

[William N]

With a bag of Skittles?

No, with his hands and feet.

 

[m00c0w]

Yeah and people keep saying "UNARMED" and "SKITTLES" like it makes it impossible for Martin to have been a credible threat to Zimmerman's life.

People! I tell ya.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but what you say is true.

There was what, 300 feet of concrete out there Martin allegedly used as a weapon?