George Zimmerman's Injuries #1

[LambChop]

I never said that Gilbreath lied or answered incorrectly about anything. Serino had the records on 3/9. Why did Gilbreath not read it by the time of the bond hearing on 4/20?

I'm not trying to debate the merits of the medical reports, I'm just asking why one of the states lead investigators was not reading ALL reports related to this case? Maybe he was too busy and never got a chance. I don't know the answer myself. In my opinion he should have read that report by the time of the bond hearing.

Gilbreath stated he had not seen a medical report that stated GZ's nose was broken. The medical report sent to the homocide detective stated it was likely GZ's nose was broken, not that it was. MOM did not ask DG if he saw the medical report that stated that GZ's nose was likely broken so that could be why DG answered the way he did. It does not mean he didn't see the report. But for all we know it might not have been given to SA's office until after the bond hearing because it wasn't considered part of the investigation at the time because SPD never asked for it. jmo

 

[LambChop]

I think the point is that IF the state is in possession of the document (as in, if they subpoenaed it or GZ gave consent for its release to them), it must be included in their discovery. JMO.

Not sure whether it would be considered their discovery or defense's discovery. I guess it would depend on who asked for it and at the time it could have been ordered indirectly by the Chief to help support GZ's SYG claim. All we know is GZ had to give permission to release the information. jmo

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I disagree, Doc. I think anything they receive has to be documented and included, not just what they want to use at trial. I can't imagine the defense sending something to the state because the defense wants the state to include it in discovery - there's never a need for that since the defense can include it in their own discovery. That's not what I meant - sorry if I gave that impression.

But I think it's possible Zimmerman (before becoming a "defendant") could have consented to a release of his records or even voluntarily provided the report prior to attorney involvement - or that the state subpoenaed it at some point. To me, it would make sense that they'd want to see the documented extent of his injuries if for no other reason than to compare to what they observed at the station to see if there were glaring discrepancies that they could use in their favor.

See, that is why you never talk to the police or assist them in their investigation of you. You can sit there and tell them a million things and they don't have to write it down or record it or video it or present it in court for you.

George can hand them a copy of his medical record, or have his Dr. send them one and it doesn't make any difference because George still has his copy or he can have the Dr. fax him the same thing. There is no burden on the SA to furnish George with something he already has.

Now George gave them his clothes. They have to furnish any evidence from them in discovery and if George wants to do test on them they have to furnish them because George does not have possession of them and can not get them any other way. imo

 

[Sherbie]

Not sure whether it would be considered their discovery or defense's discovery. I guess it would depend on who asked for it and at the time it could have been ordered indirectly by the Chief to help support GZ's SYG claim. All we know is GZ had to give permission to release the information. jmo

I agree that the defense will likely be the ones to introduce the report in trial. Just saying I think if the state was in possession of it prior to the defense's turning their discovery over, it has to be included as part of the state's discovery file.

That's just my opinion, though. I bet one of our attys could clarify on the atty thread. To be honest, it doesn't really matter to me - it's gonna come in at trial one way or the other. I just can't see the state not having to include it IF they have it in their possession (by whatever means) prior to receiving it as part of the defense's discovery.

I love your avatar and name. Takes me back!

 

[RANCH]

Gilbreath stated he had not seen a medical report that stated GZ's nose was broken. The medical report sent to the homocide detective stated it was likely GZ's nose was broken, not that it was. MOM did not ask DG if he saw the medical report that stated that GZ's nose was likely broken so that could be why DG answered the way he did. It does not mean he didn't see the report. But for all we know it might not have been given to SA's office until after the bond hearing because it wasn't considered part of the investigation at the time because SPD never asked for it. jmo

Ok, I give up. Likely broken isn't exactly the same as absolutely broken. I still believe that Gilbreath never read the medical records that Serino received on 3/9. JMO.

 

[stmarysmead]

See, that is why you never talk to the police or assist them in their investigation of you. You can sit there and tell them a million things and they don't have to write it down or record it or video it or present it in court for you.

George can hand them a copy of his medical record, or have his Dr. send them one and it doesn't make any difference because George still has his copy or he can have the Dr. fax him the same thing. There is no burden on the SA to furnish George with something he already has.

Now George gave them his clothes. They have to furnish any evidence from them in discovery and if George wants to do test on them they have to furnish them because George does not have possession of them and can not get them any other way. imo

Are you "profiling" all police? Prejudlng individuals because of a prior bias? LOL!

I guess it is human nature to an extent.

 

[Brendon]

I say this image because Mr. Zimmerman could rotate his arms to get the gun, then as Mr. Martin turned to see what he had in his hand he could be shooting squarely in the chest. I'm not saying this is exactly how it happened, but it's probably a lot closer than the army training picture.

AJ Noiter, no, that still wouldn't work. Zimmerman's arms are pinned and he could barely raise the gun up to TM's hips. It would be a very, very contorted TM to make that even close.

 

[rotterdam]

Ok, I helped you out can you help me out and tell me what you think made these marks on the back of Zimmerman's head? Do you think it could have been a flashlight?

Not directed at me but look at picture 47 on link . Could that be responsible for that mark? It looks to me like some pipe coming out of the ground. It is not the shell casing since that was on another pic.
Sorry, do not know how to bring up only that pic. Too dumb, may be somebody else can assist.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ctures-evidence-photos-released-in-the-sh-067

 

[LambChop]

Not directed at me but look at picture 47 on link . Could that be responsible for that mark? It looks to me like some pipe coming out of the ground. It is not the shell casing since that was on another pic.
Sorry, do not know how to bring up only that pic. Too dumb, may be somebody else can assist.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ctures-evidence-photos-released-in-the-sh-067

I think it is the shell casing. jmo

 

[stmarysmead]

First there was denial of GZ's injuries. Now that the evidence proves injuries we have endless theories about how he did this to himself.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Not directed at me but look at picture 47 on link . Could that be responsible for that mark? It looks to me like some pipe coming out of the ground. It is not the shell casing since that was on another pic.
Sorry, do not know how to bring up only that pic. Too dumb, may be somebody else can assist.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ctures-evidence-photos-released-in-the-sh-067

That appears to be the shell casing then they pulled it out to get the picture of it with the ruler. You can tell it is really small because it is next to the point on that arrow which the point is really small and the size compared to a blade of grass.

 

[LambChop]

First there was denial of GZ's injuries. Now that the evidence proves injuries we have endless theories about how he did this to himself.

I think there are a lot of experts out there who believe GZ's injuries are not consistent with being beaten. TM's lack of injuries have convinced some that TM was not beating him with his hands. So what is left. We can see GZ suffered injuries. We know the grass was really wet as we can all see that in the pictures. Did GZ fall on the grass and drop his flashlight and keys and get hurt in the process? Or did GZ drop them to run after TM. The flashlight and keys were no where near the body. GZ's statement is he was attacked and he fell at the same spot. The evidence we can see does not indicate that is what happened. So what did happen. Why is TM's body so far away from the pavement when LE told Tracy Martin that TM's feet were touching the pavement and the pictures indicate his body appears to be about 3 feet from the pavement. GZ's story seems to be falling apart and we have only gotten a small portion of the evidence. jmo

 

[stmarysmead]

IMO GZ's story is solid. Many experts believe it is the Prosecution case that is woefully thin...since the doc dump. That DA better have more than this. Hello Harvard Law professor Dershowitz!

There are real injuries and there are no witnesses. Therefore, since GZ is still presumed innocent in this country..he looks solid to me. But we do have fun here with our theories

 

[LambChop]

IMO GZ's story is solid. Many experts believe it is the Prosecution case that is woefully thin...since the doc dump. That DA better have more than this. Hello Harvard Law professor Dershowitz!

There are real injuries and there are no witnesses. Therefore, since GZ is still presumed innocent in this country..he looks solid to me. But we do have fun here with our theories

I don't think MOM will have any problem convincing the DA to keep certain information from being released immediately because of the threats which I totally agree with if this is, in fact, the case. I think some tempers are still a little raw regarding TM being shot by GZ and unless the press brings them back to court to release whatever MOM wants held back I think SA will agree. That is just my opinion and I think SA is fearful for GZ's life also and they do not want to see anything happen to him. They can't withhold it forever but I think they are hoping things cool off a little.

Asking to seal records and hold back information does not sound like a solid case to me. But that is jmo.

 

[Emeralgem]

IMO GZ's story is solid. Many experts believe it is the Prosecution case that is woefully thin...since the doc dump. That DA better have more than this. Hello Harvard Law professor Dershowitz!

There are real injuries and there are no witnesses. Therefore, since GZ is still presumed innocent in this country..he looks solid to me. But we do have fun here with our theories

IMHO..GZ's story is not solid..Do we even know what he told SPD that night? For certain there are conflicitng statements concerning what happened from those who claim to have knowedge of the events that took place the night GZ killed Trayvon Martin ...JMHO

 

[Lovelymountains]

Didn't he say, 'those a'holes always get away'!

Yes, he did. GZ did at one time assert that Trayvon was headed toward the back gate. We now know, of course, that he was headed to the home in which he was a guest.

 

[Lovelymountains]

I don't think MOM will have any problem convincing the DA to keep certain information from being released immediately because of the threats which I totally agree with if this is, in fact, the case. I think some tempers are still a little raw regarding TM being shot by GZ and unless the press brings them back to court to release whatever MOM wants held back I think SA will agree. That is just my opinion and I think SA is fearful for GZ's life also and they do not want to see anything happen to him. They can't withhold it forever but I think they are hoping things cool off a little.

Asking to seal records and hold back information does not sound like a solid case to me. But that is jmo.

Doesn't FL Sunshine Law require release? Can the two sides, i.e. defense and prosecution, arbitrarily decide between them to withhold discovery which otherwise would be subject to mandatory release? Doesn't it require a court order to seal certain documents and exempt them from the FL Sunshine law? That is how I understand the law, but of course, I could certainly be incorrect. But it seems to me that trying to withhold evidence from the public which, rightly or wrongly, is required to be released indicates a less than pristine defense which some assert is the case. I understand withholding names and addresses and other information which could publically identify eyewitnesses and put them in jeopardy, but I don't understand trying to withhold evidence which the defense doesn't like.

 

[Lovelymountains]

IMHO..GZ's story is not solid..Do we even know what he told SPD that night? For certain there are conflicitng statements concerning what happened from those who claim to have knowedge of the events that took place the night GZ killed Trayvon Martin ...JMHO

IMO GZ's story so far as is known, is as full of holes as swiss cheese. His minor injuries alone dispute a reasonable fear that his life was in danger. His background information, whether or not it will be admissable, tells me he has a hair-trigger temper and a lot of hang-ups about gender, race and ethnicity. Put that together with a gun and a rainy night when he spies a black teenager in "His" territory, and the results could be tragic. And they were.

 

[LambChop]

Doesn't FL Sunshine Law require release? Can the two sides, i.e. defense and prosecution, arbitrarily decide between them to withhold discovery which otherwise would be subject to mandatory release? Doesn't it require a court order to seal certain documents and exempt them from the FL Sunshine law? That is how I understand the law, but of course, I could certainly be incorrect. But it seems to me that trying to withhold evidence from the public which, rightly or wrongly, is required to be released indicates a less than pristine defense which some assert is the case. I understand withholding names and addresses and other information which could publically identify eyewitnesses and put them in jeopardy, but I don't understand trying to withhold evidence which the defense doesn't like.

I think they have to see the judge. I do not think SA would fight MOM on releasing some of the information. The judge may have to seal it until the trial. When a threat is shown on TV by a group stating there is a boundy on GZ's head and we have never seen a retraction of that bounty I don't think MOM is going to get an argument from the judge or SA's office. This group should have come forward and apologized for jumping the gun so to speak. That is the way I feel. TM's mom asked for justice. This group should respect her wishes. She has a right to know what is in those statements GZ made. This group may have prevented her from ever finding out. They need to do the right thing. jmo

 

[wowitsdark]

Ok, I give up. Likely broken isn't exactly the same as absolutely broken. I still believe that Gilbreath never read the medical records that Serino received on 3/9. JMO.

Is there something I am missing regarding why it would matter if it was 'likely broken' or if there had been an x-ray done that proved it was broken?

In light of his other facial injuries and the appearance of his nose, I think the point would be - ultimately - whether or not he appeared to have been struck in the face, as he claimed.