George Zimmerman's Injuries #1

[sleonardelli]

Hey B, WELCOME!

ITA with what you mean by the bruising showing up right after a fight.

HOwever, I don't believe that GZ ever had his backside on the ground having his head smashed into the ground. Did you see the pics of GZ backside? No grass stains, mudd, water, no nothing. IMO, he was never on his back. So I've been wondering what could've caused the injuries to the back of his head? IMO, GZ may have been pushed up against something while standing up. If him and Trayvon were pushing and shoving, it's possible GZ backed up into something and as Trayvon was pushing him trying to get away as GZ had a hold on him, GZ head was knocked up against something repeatedly. Does that make sense?

I picture GZ struggling to keep hold of Trayvon as he is pushing trying to get loose. I picture Trayvon pulling back and falling with GZ landing on top of him. IMO, that's how they ended up on the ground...but GZ never was on the bottom.

If Trayvon gave GZ such a beating with his "hands" wouldn't you expect to see bruising or something?

JMO and again WELCOME!

Except for the bold, I agree with everything you said. IMO, the GF may have heard both fall to the ground; GZ first, pulling Trayvon on top as he held him. GF says Trayvon said "Get off, get off" which could indicate GZ was holding onto him. Trayvon likely began wildly (MMA-style per "John") punching to get away. If GZ was defending himself against these blows, you'd expect to see defensive wounds (bruising) on his hands/arms yet there apparently were none. I think GZ was holding onto Trayvon hence he wasn't defending himself. This is strictly MY speculation based on what I now know.

 

[AJ Noiter]

BG did not say TM was shot on the porch. She and Tracy Martin were standing at the spot where LE told them TM was shot and she said, he was walking home, that man shot him, would have been on his porch. She was upset so it's not that clear to the listener what she is saying but it obvious she know where TM died and they were not on her back porch at the time of the interview. jmo

At 1:20 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sR267zbC7s

Her words are very clear: "He was on his way back home, I was living down here, he was sitting on the porch and this man had killed him."

 

[LambChop]

Except for the bold, I agree with everything you said. IMO, the GF may have heard both fall to the ground; GZ first, pulling Trayvon on top as he held him. GF says Trayvon said "Get off, get off" which could indicate GZ was holding onto him. Trayvon likely began wildly (MMA-style per "John") punching to get away. If GZ was defending himself against these blows, you'd expect to see defensive wounds (bruising) on his hands/arms yet there apparently were none. I think GZ was holding onto Trayvon hence he wasn't defending himself. This is strictly MY speculation based on what I now know.

Plus some of the injuries on GZ are scratches and the ME report says TM has none of GZ's DNA under his nails so it is doubtful GZ received them from TM. If TM was hiding from GZ near those bushes it's possible they struggled there first and some of GZ's injuries came from the bushes, maybe they fell and TM was able to get away, ran GZ caught up with him and they landed where TM died.

With no bruises or cuts to TM's hands or DNA from GZ it does appear TM had little contact with GZ's face because something would have been there. There are a lot of fluids in the facial area. The nose, the mouth, GZ was bleeding. GZ claims TM had his hand over his mouth. There would have been some DNA on TM. So I do think a more likely sceniaro would have been TM was swinging his arms around but not because he was hitting, he was fighting to get loose from GZ's grip.

Also if those calls for help were continuous how was GZ yelling when his mouth was covered up by TM? I believe this is why Gilbreath is saying his statements are inconsistent. jmo

 

[jjenny]

The did find Zimmerman's blood on Trayvon's shirt, so Zimmerman's DNA in fact was on Trayvon's clothing. Also, another interesting piece of information. The gun was so close when it was shot, it was touching Trayvon's clothing. So shot at a very close distance.

"And crime-lab experts found that Zimmerman's blood was on several pieces of evidence: his shirt, his jacket, his gun and Trayvon's shirt."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...rosecutor-angela-corey-new-evidence-documents

 

[LambChop]

At 1:20 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sR267zbC7s

Her words are very clear: "He was on his way back home, I was living down here, he was sitting on the porch and this man had killed him."

Her words are not clear because she is upset. We can all see with our eyes where she is standing and the interview is where Tracy points out the spot LE told him TM was shot. We went round and round about this when the video was released some heard it one way, another hear it differently. But it is obvious from where she is standing that what she was saying or trying to say is "he would've been sitting on the porch" because she knows he did not die there. They were not interviewed on her back porch. And her words were not that clear because we would not have had pages and pages of discussion about it. But we all know where she was standing and we all know she understood where TM died.

Plus this interview was done right after TM died. The woman was very visibly upset and what she said shouldn't even be an issue. It has nothing to do with anything other than a statement regarding what they were told by LE. jmo

 

[LambChop]

The did find Zimmerman's blood on Trayvon's shirt, so Zimmerman's DNA in fact was on Trayvon's clothing. Also, another interesting piece of information. The gun was so close when it was shot, it was touching Trayvon's clothing. So shot at a very close distance.

"And crime-lab experts found that Zimmerman's blood was on several pieces of evidence: his shirt, his jacket, his gun and Trayvon's shirt."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...rosecutor-angela-corey-new-evidence-documents

I believe it said GZ's blood was on the cuff of TM's sweatshirt. jmo

 

[AJ Noiter]

Her words are not clear because she is upset. We can all see with our eyes where she is standing and the interview is where Tracy points out the spot LE told him TM was shot. We went round and round about this when the video was released some heard it one way, another hear it differently. But it is obvious from where she is standing that what she was saying or trying to say is "he would've been sitting on the porch" because she knows he did not die there. They were not interviewed on her back porch. And her words were not that clear because we would not have had pages and pages of discussion about it. But we all know where she was standing and we all know she understood where TM died.

Plus this interview was done right after TM died. The woman was very visibly upset and what she said shouldn't even be an issue. It has nothing to do with anything other than a statement regarding what they were told by LE. jmo

Her words never included the bold. I can't even fathom where someone would get those words because they're not spoken by her at all, in the entire interview. Like it or not, listen to it 20 more times and you will never hear those words being spoken. In fact, you can specifically hear the words "he WAS ..." However, spin it whichever way you want, it goes back to the point I was making. People misrepresent, in many different ways, the truth of the story. Whether it's mis-speaking as she may have done, or flat out misunderstood what was said to them, it's NOT the truth in either scenario, and you can not argue against that.

 

[suzihawk]

The did find Zimmerman's blood on Trayvon's shirt, so Zimmerman's DNA in fact was on Trayvon's clothing. Also, another interesting piece of information. The gun was so close when it was shot, it was touching Trayvon's clothing. So shot at a very close distance.

"And crime-lab experts found that Zimmerman's blood was on several pieces of evidence: his shirt, his jacket, his gun and Trayvon's shirt."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...rosecutor-angela-corey-new-evidence-documents

Why wasn't there any GSR found on Zimmerman's clothes? It seems there should have been some on his jacket or sleeves.

 

[sleonardelli]

Her words are not clear because she is upset. We can all see with our eyes where she is standing and the interview is where Tracy points out the spot LE told him TM was shot. We went round and round about this when the video was released some heard it one way, another hear it differently. But it is obvious from where she is standing that what she was saying or trying to say is "he would've been sitting on the porch" because she knows he did not die there. They were not interviewed on her back porch. And her words were not that clear because we would not have had pages and pages of discussion about it. But we all know where she was standing and we all know she understood where TM died.

Plus this interview was done right after TM died. The woman was very visibly upset and what she said shouldn't even be an issue. It has nothing to do with anything other than a statement regarding what they were told by LE. jmo

It was likely her last image of Trayvon alive.

 

[Isabelle]

Red doesn't show well on red (or orange).

I would think you'd see it on gray.

 

[Isabelle]

The did find Zimmerman's blood on Trayvon's shirt, so Zimmerman's DNA in fact was on Trayvon's clothing. Also, another interesting piece of information. The gun was so close when it was shot, it was touching Trayvon's clothing. So shot at a very close distance.

"And crime-lab experts found that Zimmerman's blood was on several pieces of evidence: his shirt, his jacket, his gun and Trayvon's shirt."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...rosecutor-angela-corey-new-evidence-documents

If GZ was close enough to fire the weapon while the muzzle of the gun was touching TM, the recoil probably caused his nose injury. Surely he didn't have his arms extended and elbows locked, because to take the time to do that wouldn't be so great for SYG.

 

[jjenny]

Why wasn't there any GSR found on Zimmerman's clothes? It seems there should have been some on his jacket or sleeves.

I have no idea, but it clearly was a shot from a very close distance.
Unless you are suggesting someone else shot the gun and not Zimmerman, what difference does it make?

 

[LambChop]

I understand what you're saying, and that's something I actually don't understand about many of Mr. Martin's supporters. The claim has been made dozens of times that the original investigators messed up this investigation, yet most (if not all) of the "evidence" is from them. They go on to say "we don't believe that Mr. Tracy Martin said he didn't think it was his son" regarding the screams, so another "lie" from the investigators - just one example, but there's many. Here's the part that gets me, if there's a report that "Mr. Zimmerman made many statements that are inconsistent" they openly believe it. "Lies, lies, lies ... except that one detail!" just doesn't make sense to me, but that is my opinion.

I believe it was Mr. Gilbreath who stated in the bond hearing that the statements GZ made were "inconsistent". Tracy Martin admitted in an interview that the first recording he heard of the screams at the police station he did not believe it was TM because of the quality of the tape. He heard, either another tape or a clearer version, and that is when he said he felt it was TM screaming. When you lose a child a lot of things come into play including the shock of hearing something so terrifying as those screams. It was unsettling for me to hear it the first time I can imagine how Tracy felt. Denial is one of the first stages of grief. So I can't fault the man for saying no right off the bat. What a horrible thing for him to have to listen to while still trying to recover from the death of his son and then have to listen to it again and believe it now to be your son's screams. It's very sad. jmo

 

[AJ Noiter]

If GZ was close enough to fire the weapon while the muzzle of the gun was touching TM, the recoil probably caused his nose injury. Surely he didn't have his arms extended and elbows locked, because to take the time to do that wouldn't be so great for SYG.

I'm not sure how the closeness to the target determines the amount of recoil, but I can tell you that a 9mm does not have a lot of force. Most of it would be absorbed by the wrists alone, not to mention he'd have to have the weapon within an inch or so of his nose for the slide alone. I'm fairly certain (as a 9mm owner) that the recoil and slide are out of the question as far as possibilities for the injury to his nose. Just my thought as an owner/marksman.

 

[LambChop]

It was likely her last image of Trayvon alive.

I never thought of that. Yes, she could have been visualizing that when she was speaking. When people are in shock they sometimes sound as if they aren't making much sense. It should not be a point of criticism that many were pointing out when we know she knew TM did not die on her porch. jmo

 

[AJ Noiter]

I never thought of that. Yes, she could have been visualizing that when she was speaking. When people are in shock they sometimes sound as if they aren't making much sense. It should not be a point of criticism that many were pointing out when we know she knew TM did not die on her porch. jmo

In regard to the conversation at hand, it wasn't criticism, it was simply pointing out a fact. Both sides of this case have some statements that aren't the truth. I never stated they were lies because they're not. Misunderstandings? Sure. Misspeaking? Probably. Truth? No. Doesn't matter how you look at it, her words were not the truth. That's all I was saying in my original post that you quoted.

 

[LambChop]

<modsnip>

<modsnip>... since many feel MSM misreport everything I stick with the interview where I heard Mr. Martin state he first told LE "no" in his initial interview and then later listened to a clearer tape and recognized the screaming as TM. Tracy is a victim and we all have to understand he's going to do the same thing any victim does because the initial shock of dealing with death will do that to you. jmo

 

[rossva]

BBM Not sure about you, but it only takes me miliseconds to extend my arms and lock my elbows.

If GZ was close enough to fire the weapon while the muzzle of the gun was touching TM, the recoil probably caused his nose injury. Surely he didn't have his arms extended and elbows locked, because to take the time to do that wouldn't be so great for SYG.

 

[LambChop]

In regard to the conversation at hand, it wasn't criticism, it was simply pointing out a fact. Both sides of this case have some statements that aren't the truth. I never stated they were lies because they're not. Misunderstandings? Sure. Misspeaking? Probably. Truth? No. Doesn't matter how you look at it, her words were not the truth. That's all I was saying in my original post that you quoted.

Maybe we were the one's who misunderstood her. She clearly understood what she wanted to say whether or not we misunderstood her or not. If she misspoke it was never intentional and pointing it out seems like she is being criticized for not being truthful. The statement had nothing to do with the crime and she was not trying to mislead anyone. No wonder attorneys tell you to just say "no comment". jmo

 

[suzihawk]

I have no idea, but it clearly was a shot from a very close distance.
Unless you are suggesting someone else shot the gun and not Zimmerman, what difference does it make?

What I'm suggesting is that it was extremely sloppy police work. One of the many reasons for this, in my personal opinion, is that the SPD had already made up their collective minds that the shooting of this unnamed and unknown young black man was of little importance compared to one of their own known citizens. One that they quite possibly already knew was the son of a magistrate judge.

What difference does it make? All of the omissions and inconsistencies in this investigation make a great deal of difference and call the entire sloppy investigation into question, IMO.