Gerard Baden Clay's murder appeal

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http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...downgrade-mistaken/news-story/2744201718cd741

Baden-Clay murder case: Prosecutors outline why downgrade ‘mistaken’
February 1, 2016 5:58pm
David MurrayThe Courier-Mail

The arguments, filed in court this afternoon, say Queensland’s Court of Appeal got it wrong when it concluded the evidence did not show Baden-Clay had a motive for murder and downgraded his murder conviction to manslaughter in December.

Prosecutors added that the Court of Appeal decision was the “latest in a line of Queensland cases that are inconsistent with recent decisions of the Victorian Court of Appeal”concerning the significance of post-offence conduct in determining between murder and manslaughter.

The decision also “sanctions a piecemeal evaluation of circumstantial evidence” and raised questions about how a jury could use an accused’s silence and lies...
 
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...01-gmj2df.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium/

Gerard Baden-Clay appeal: Trial defence was 'murder or nothing'
February 1, 2016 - 8:03PM Nathanael Cooper

Prosecutors have lodged their notice of appeal in the High Court against the Court of Appeal's decision to downgrade Gerard Baden-Clay's murder conviction to manslaughter.

The summary of arguments lays out what prosecutors argue are inconsistencies in the Court of Appeal's decision and specifically points out that the decision is the latest in a line of Queensland cases inconsistent with recent decisions of the Victorian Court of Appeal.

The summary of arguments also points out that while the crown pointed to murder as the cause of Allison Baden-Clay's death and the defence offered theories of suicide, overdose, a fall, drowning and alcohol as the cause, unintended or accidental killing by Mr Baden-Clay was not offered during trial.

Mr Baden-Clay's defence team has 21 days to respond before the High Court decides whether it will hear the case.
 
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FYI
Reminder: The DPP, Michael Byrne, QC, has only lodged an application for 'special leave to appeal' in the high court, with the filing of a draft notice to appeal and summary of argument.

The application requests the court of appeal outcome be set aside or dismissed and a high court appeal be heard.

The Defense have 21 days to respond.

The High Court would then determine whether to grant or not 'special leave to appeal'
(as we have understood from WS legal experts's previous posts).
 
Have any of the local people read the Letters in the Westside News this week? For interstate and overseas people this is our local rag which covers Brookfield, Kenmore etc. Basically a male reader has posed the question what if GBC is innocent? He cites the points in favour as:

1. No trace of evidence at the house (despite Allison's mother commenting on how clean it was with the smell of bleach)
2. "Undressing and dressing her dead Body" - he seemed to think this was an impossibility for GBC
3. Carrying her body to the car - he seemed to think this was impossible even though plants were found in her hair indicating she was dragged
4. Driving the 14km to Kholo creek - why does he doubt GBC could do this (maybe someone else did)
5. Getting her body down to the creek without breaking his or her bones
6. No dirt or mud on his clothes or in the car (maybe because Nige vaccummed! plus there was Allison's blood found there)
7. He would not leave his "precious daughters" in the house alone - this is the only bit I believe.
8. He was ignoring the possibility of being observed
9. He waited until morning before telling anyone

This writer states all these points are not believable. I would like to ask him what is the alternative?
A serial killer loose in Brookfield forced his way into the house, kidnapped Allison without waking GBC up?
Allison walked all that way herself, lay down quietly and died?

the letter immediately underneath cites cases of incorrect convictions eg Lindy Chamberlain. It does not directly relate this to GBC but makes the comment "a whole nation was ready to crucify her too.."

I don't know whether we should draft a reply or just ignore it.

Just one thing to add here. I went to the creek and it is a steep slope from the road/bridge. I'm not sure what the proper term is... But a person can belay a person down manually from rock climbing. It is where (in my observation) a person after reaching the climbing goal or not turns upside down because the lower half can retain more weight than the upper body. A lot of manoeuvring by the person lowering the ropes.

I don't read the local Brookfield News. However, what if he is innocent. I put forth the Occassion of .... My wife is missing. Can't search for her, because why?. I can't answer police questions because .... Why. Little sister says.....
Odd and uncooperative.
 
A perspective on the persistent use of the catchcry of ' what about Lindy Chamberlain'... used in this case quite a lot by a certain section of the community, with no further extension but this catchcry....

Australian justice made an error in that case, .. but the particular matter of that is, the jury didn't. The jury was presented with false and misleading evidence, by Government 'experts' who stretched their knowledge of some matters further than they had experience and knowledge of.

It simply doesn't follow that one must then look at Baden-Clay and then look at Chamberlain. One is nowhere near comparative with the other.... and it flies in the face of the overwhelming matter of thousands of cases in the NT, and QLD where the jury got it right, presented with ineffable facts. ... Year after year, Australia's jury system comes up trumps, hard work by ordinary people, unknown and unsung, and while Chamberlain was a dogs dinner, it certainly paved the way for the eradication of dogs dinners of jury trials from then on, once the matinee jacket was found.

Nowhere else does a jury suffer more scrutiny in a trial that in Australia. Precisely because of Chamberlain, scrutiny by the public, by the courts , and by the officers of the courts, in every state. It is such a disservice to try an link the publicly known and acknowledged error prone evidence given by the SA and NT police in the Chamberlain trial with anything that has gone on after that, that the linking of Chamberlain to any case is a real furphy, meant to mislead. Meant to confuse and meant to discard the real honest hard work that went into the Baden Clay trial. ..

It also casts spurious aspersions on the witnesses in the Baden Clay trial,, the Doctors Gerard hit on that Saturday Morning, his business associates whom he diddled, the employees , Allisons' friends, and family, and above all, the Searchers who combed dangerous country for 11 days. They knew, within hours, they were searching for a dead body.
 
Yes and as a neighbour when the police searched our property not once where we told to take extra precautions. They where interested in had we seen anything suspicious etc also in us searching more thoroughly ourselves(I guess for safety of the police and for me the fact they knew it was a body they where searching for).
 
http://www.news.com.au/national/que...iction-reinstated/news-story/1051bdd92568a9b4

DPP lodges submission to have Gerard Baden-Clay’s previous murder conviction reinstated
FEBRUARY 2, 2016

"His false denials, in evidence, of any intention to leave his wife..." but pledging his mistress that he would be free by July.

"He got rid of the primary evidence..." firstly, cold-bloodedly dumped Allison's body under a bridge in the darkness of night; secondly, cleaned the house with bleach (smelt by Allison's mother the next morning).

“He put on fake concern about his wife and play-acted that concern by sending texts to a phone he knew she would never answer.”

"His attempts to conceal his ongoing affair to police just after Allison’s death was significant because it meant one could infer the killing and the extramarital tryst were linked."

“It intensified the significance of the motive to get rid of his wife...”

"He may not have intended to show his hand as a murderer, but he may just have done that.”
 
Just a query for our legal eagles.

Wondering: if this hypothetical 'accidental' killing i.e. manslaughter stays at the determination of the High Court, is it possible for GBC (or lawyers on his behalf)to then claim a percentage of Allison's finances in the future?

We are informed that manslaughter precludes this, but the 'accidental' death aspect - could it change GBC's right to her money into the future?

If the 'hypothetical 'accidental' death stays, is it likely to influence sentencing? If Allison's death is deemed to be a terrible accident, then hypothetically, GBC may gain a reduced sentence, and with time already served, be out in the community rearing his girls in 5 years?

IMHO it is regrettable that the Prosecution excluded the 'insurance queries' pre/post Allison's death
from being tested at trial. The High Court's role is only to review the evidence presented at trial and QCA.

IMO so much circumstantial evidence omitted from trial.

Maybe there will be a new trial someday where more of the circumstantial evidence collected by Police can be tested at trial. Something does not seem right here. Behind the scenes deals done about which evidence to include and which to exclude?

:thinking:
 
I think the use of the word "accidental" killing is a bit confusing. Unlawful killing is either murder( with intent to kill or cause grevious harm) or manslaughter (no intent). Under either murder or manslaughter convictions, the convicted person cannot benefit financially from their crime. So either way, GBC cannot benefit financially from Allison's estate.
Had he for eg, been able to convince a jury that he killed Allison in self defence, then he would have been aquitted and been entitled to benefit in her estate.

If leave is refused by the High Court, or granted but the High Court doesn't alter the Court of Appeal's manslaughter decision, then GBC will be sentenced for the conviction of manslaughter. It could have been done already but for the prosecution wanting to hold off pending what happens with the High Court.

Because of his horrific post death conduct and lies, etc, etc, the sentencing should be at the upper end of the range of discretion. Had he called an ambulance, and the post death circumstances been very different, then the sentencing would be at the lower end of the range. He will not get off lightly so to speak and he will stay in jail for hopefully another 8 to 10 yrs.

Just a query for our legal eagles.

Wondering: if this hypothetical 'accidental' killing i.e. manslaughter stays at the determination of the High Court, is it possible for GBC (or lawyers on his behalf)to then claim a percentage of Allison's finances in the future?

We are informed that manslaughter precludes this, but the 'accidental' death aspect - could it change GBC's right to her money into the future?

If the 'hypothetical 'accidental' death stays, is it likely to influence sentencing? If Allison's death is deemed to be a terrible accident, then hypothetically, GBC may gain a reduced sentence, and with time already served, be out in the community rearing his girls in 5 years?

IMHO it is regrettable that the Prosecution excluded the 'insurance queries' pre/post Allison's death
from being tested at trial. The High Court's role is only to review the evidence presented at trial and QCA.

IMO so much circumstantial evidence omitted from trial.

Maybe there will be a new trial someday where more of the circumstantial evidence collected by Police can be tested at trial. Something does not seem right here. Behind the scenes deals done about which evidence to include and which to exclude?

:thinking:
 
JCB in your scepticism with regard to the validity of ‘this retired NSW Judge’s’ comments, sounds like you are saying David Murray has fabricated the claims of the Judge …… Yes/No?

Hard hitting question there Couldbe! Re-reading my post I can understand that it could be interpreted that way but that was not my intention. Could David have fabricated some or all of the story? Absolutely, but I don't believe this to be the case.

As mentioned, my first issue is the use of an anonymous source. Many reputable publications around the world do not permit anonymous sources to be quoted at all but if they do, it's almost exclusively due to 1 of 2 reasons -

1. Risk of physical harm to the source, witness to a crime for example.
2. Risk of professional sanctions, whistleblowers etc.

Occasionally you'll see a third category (which loosely ties in with number 2 above) where a person discloses information which they did not have authority to. Sometimes the information can be accurate but you have to question the character of someone who shows a complete disregard of the trust placed in them by their employer. Then you have the tabloid "sources", usually related to celebrity gossip where "a source close to the couple confirmed ****" which are virtually never true and almost always fabricated (by either the journalist or the "source").

Anyway, the 2 legitimate reasons for anonymity do not apply in this case and you have to wonder why David went ahead with the article (I see it has since been pulled from the Daily Telegraph site, but perhaps unsurprisingly it remains on the CM site). With no way to verify the credentials of the quoted person I have great difficulty placing any weight on the article's contents.

There are a number of possibilities in my mind...

1. The source has been dreadfully misquoted.
2. The source has lied about their credentials and experience.
3. The source is apparently of advanced age, perhaps their understanding of current case law is limited or are suffering from some kind of memory impairment.

We had a case not so long ago where we had a graduate undertaking their PLT (Practical Legal Training) with us, which is a requirement prior to being admitted. A well known journalist contacted them (outside of work) and their opinion was plastered all over the front page the next day and while the firm was not mentioned directly in the article, it said something along the lines of "this was confirmed by a high profile criminal law firm". Yet they had contacted someone who had 1 semester of criminal law under their belt, totally outside of the professional environment, who's comments were certainly not endorsed by the firm and who wasn't even admitted to practice law! We had previously assisted this journalist but needless to say that relationship no longer exists... So you'll have to forgive me if my opinion of journalists reporting on criminal matters has deteriorated somewhat!

The source also freely admits having not read the trial transcript yet has no issue making disparaging comments about the QCA. One would hope that a former Supreme Court judge would at least take a glance at the transcript before making public comment that may well result in public confidence in the judiciary being eroded. Disgustingly unprofessional, regardless of whether or not the source is retired.

Not sure where you stand on the guilt of Baden Clay ….. be he guilty of Murder, Manslaughter or whether you might think he is innocent of any involvement at all in the death of Allison.

My opinion FWIW is that Gerard is probably responsible for Allison's death, but I don't think I could have convicted him of either manslaughter or murder. During deliberations another juror may have brought up something that changed my opinion but having had the benefit of reading hundreds of differing opinions and theories, I am yet to be convinced otherwise.

Honestly I think it was a weird trial from start to finish, with errors from pretty much everyone involved.

I think the defence erred in making an (ultimately successful) application to suppress coronial evidence in relation to a subdural hemorrhage observed during Allison's autopsy. This not only would have given considerable weight to the altercation theory that ultimately the QCA relied on, but it would have very much weakened the asphyxiation theory that jury seems to have accepted. I also wonder why Gerrard gave evidence, there was never any chance that he could have added anything positive to his defence.

I think the prosecution erred in failing to give sufficient coverage to the element of intent, with the evidence available I think they did an admirable job of attempting to prove that Gerard was responsible for Allison's death (successfully in the end) but evidence relating to intent was severely deficient. I also have a moral objection to leading a case based on likely smothering when evidence existed that Allison's death may well have been the result of a subdural hemorrhage (the coroner noted that the injury was capable of causing death). I understand that this evidence was ultimately excluded on defence application but both the defence and prosecution have a legal duty to assist the court in arriving at the truth. I understand that the Crown Prosecutor (you'll have to forgive me, I can't recall who it was!) did not have authority to discontinue the prosecution on this basis but I'm morally uncomfortable with a prosecution and subsequent conviction primarily based on a theoretical cause of death when (admittedly excluded) evidence suggested that the cause of death may well have been something entirely different and was potentially more consistent with manslaughter as opposed to murder.

By implication, Justice Byrne erred in not allowing the defence no case application.

The jury erred in disregarding Justice Byrne's instructions and seeking outside assistance on how to deliberate.

I think it was a bit of a shambles all round unfortunately and from a professional perspective, I'm not at all comfortable with the whole process.
 
Thank you Alioop. I had come across a legal opinion which implied that GBC may be able, in the future, to apply for a percentage of Allison's money if the 'accidental' hypothesis is accepted. I now know opinion to be incorrect.
 
Thank you JCB. I enjoyed reading your post from several angles. Agree it was regrettable that coronial evidence of a subdural hematoma was suppressed for all the reasons you have articulated.
However, whilst is may hypothetically be consistent with manslaughter, it also may hypothetically be consistent with murder i.e. it was possible that he hit her with an object with intent to kill or knocked her to the patio before putting his knee into her chest and suffocating her. This could have been tested at trial. The site/location of the subdural hematoma on Allison's head may have yielded evidence as to the cause, but that chance is lost now. We have evidence that Allison's mother noticed the house had been cleaned and she smelled bleach in the house that morning. Allegedly GBC's father was rumored to have hosed down the patio earlier that morning, then refused to hand over the vacuum bag at police request. Allegedly, the crime scene had been rearranged overnight. Agree, so much circumstantial evidence was not presented at trial.
 
JCB, where do you get that about subdural haemorrhage? The autopsy report says that the presence or absence of subdural haemorrhage could not be confirmed.
 
I've also got a question for people with some legal knowledge. Could the High Court set aside both the murder and manslaughter verdicts and declare GBC not guilty? Would it be legal for them to do so, if they think there's not enough evidence to convict on either offence?
 
If anyone has time, these are fascinating. This is a good starting point:
[video=youtube;ce7TO3aMgNs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce7TO3aMgNs[/video]
(Jenna Stauffer and Sandra L. Brown and Pathological Love Relationships)[h=1][/h]
 
I've also got a question for people with some legal knowledge. Could the High Court set aside both the murder and manslaughter verdicts and declare GBC not guilty? Would it be legal for them to do so, if they think there's not enough evidence to convict on either offence?

For those in Brisbane, Channel 7 a report on the 6pm news "What does he look like now? His new relationship" Not sure how they got this surely they couldn't interview him in prison
 
For those in Brisbane, Channel 7 a report on the 6pm news "What does he look like now? His new relationship" Not sure how they got this surely they couldn't interview him in prison


OK not that informative. They just gave a picture of his prison mug shot and compared it with previous pictures. His new "relationship" is just that he is now BFF with Max Sieca(?) the one who murdered the 3 siblings. They are both on trolley pushing duty together. A psychologist commented on life in prison and the fact that you need a friend for both companionship and protection. He was described by prison staff as being smooth and smug, there may have been another word too ? swarmy.
 
[video=youtu;pN7BQs6YO2E]http://youtu.be/pN7BQs6YO2E[/video]
chilling
 
OK not that informative. They just gave a picture of his prison mug shot and compared it with previous pictures. His new "relationship" is just that he is now BFF with Max Sieca(?) the one who murdered the 3 siblings. They are both on trolley pushing duty together. A psychologist commented on life in prison and the fact that you need a friend for both companionship and protection. He was described by prison staff as being smooth and smug, there may have been another word too ? swarmy.

In 1993, more than a decade before the Singh killings, a prison psychologist raised the alarm that Sica displayed the hallmarks of a psychopath. At the time Sica was 23 and had a history of multiple offences.Criminal psychopaths are considered particularly dangerous because they can be superficially charming but also cunning, manipulative and devoid of remorse. Their lack of guilt makes them more likely to reoffend, some experts believe.
Not all psychopaths are criminals or even violent and research shows their traits can take them to the top of their fields as leaders in the corporate, political and sporting worlds.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...an-of-many-faces/story-e6freoof-1226593572040
 
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