Germanwings Airbus crash 24 March #1

[CARIIS]

One Germanwings flight has been cancelled because pilots don’t feel they are in a position to fly.”
.

The flight cancelled was the connection from the western German city of Duesseldorf to Barcelona.
A spokesman for the pilots’ union Vereinigung Cockpit, Joerg Handwerg, insisted the decision was not because of concerns about safety.


“It has nothing to do with safety. The pilots have friends and colleagues who have died,” Handwerg said on public television.
“That is such a heavy emotional burden that it’s better not to get into the cockpit.”


On Tuesday, Germanwings had reported “occasional flight disruptions within its route network” as pilots were too shocked to fly following the news of the crash of an A320 Germanwings jet.


“We understand their decision,” Germanwings executive Thomas Winkelmann said on Tuesday.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...us-320-crash-victims-to-be-named-live-updates

 

[CARIIS]

Not to bring up a sore subject, BUT................. in looking at the video animation and then at the video of the searchers at the crashsite, it appears that this was a case of an airplane, under power, that flew straight into the side of a mountain. And there is a fairly wide area of debris. With obviously recognizable pieces of debris. And visible airplane parts.

I live near Shanksville, PA where Flight 93 flew into the ground on 9/11. There were no airplane parts and very, very little debris.

I am not a "Truther" or anything like that, just looking at these videos reminded me of that. Wondering why the crash sites look so different.

I think two variables resulted in debris patterns. On 9/11 United 93 hit soft field absorbing the plane whereas here it appears as if the plane just nose first right into concrete.

There was also huge in speed at impact. Here they saying around 400 mph while in UNited it hit at 563 mph at a 40-degree nose-down,( inverted)

160 mph is pretty signifgant I would think.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93#Crash

US air in Pittsburg resemled this one as well:

Goggle images

Another moutain crash: This was a jumbo DC-10.

But i think out of ones I recall Turkish Air, in terms of total destruction was pretty intense:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Airlines_Flight_981

 

[SouthAussie]

Victims are also feared from Colombia, Argentina, Australia, Japan, Belgium, Denmark, Mexico and Britain, according to AFP citing officials from these countries.

Many families had chosen to fly to Marseille over night and be bussed up into the alps to get as near as possible to the crash site and to begin grieving as they waited for relatives’ remains.

The make-shift chapel had been decorated with flowers and flags of the victims’ countries, with chairs, tables and drinks for the relatives. Over 800 beds in the vicinity had been requisitioned for support staff, families and emergency services. Local language teachers had offered to help translate for the families.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...us-320-crash-victims-to-be-named-live-updates

 

[FranP]

http://fyre.it/7vLjET.4Latest update on the nationalities of those on the plane:

- 67 Germans

- Many Spaniards. The government says the passenger list included 45 people with Spanish last names but it is still trying to confirm the exact number.


- 3 British

- 3 Kazakhs

- 2 Japanese

- 2 Colombians

- 2 Australians

- 1 Dutch

- 1 Dane

- 1 Turk

- 1 Israeli

- 1 Mexican was probably on board. The government says it is still trying to confirm the information

http://fyre.it/8PwptG.4

It's so terribly sad seeing pictures of the people who died, so many young people among them.

Edit: Sky news is reporting that a French air force spokesman told AP that it scrambled a Mirage fighter jet to the area when the Germanwings flight lost contact, but it arrived too late to help and did not locate the site of the crash.

http://fyre.it/7vLjET.4

 

[Elley Mae]

Two Americans on Germanwings Plane, Official Says

http://abcnews.go.com/International/germanwings-plane-black-box-damaged-official/story?id=29887148

 

[Elley Mae]

Police in Barcelona say they have taken DNA samples from relatives of Spanish victims of the Germanwings crash to help with identification.

A spokeswoman said Wednesday they had taken 48 samples. She said more samples would be taken.

http://www.wxyz.com/news/2-americans-on-germanwings-plane-that-crashed-in-the-alps

 

[Hatfield]

Hello everyone. So many plane wrecks lately. This is another one that really is a stumper. Surely the pilots were paying attention ? So why no may-day call?

This is nuts. And so sad for the families.

 

[Hatfield]

The wheel wells are non-pressurized areas and are separate from the cockpit/cabin. so the door could blow off and it would not affect the cockpit. It wouldnt be an explosive depressurization.

But what if the flap folded down and the turbulance caused by the huge flap started tearing other pieces of the plane off and it may have ruptured the pressurized part of the plane resulting in rapid decompression which could have then caused the pilots to basically try to hang on until impact.

Some of the parts flapping around in the strong wind current may have caused the plane to be very difficult to fly as well as may have torn through the pressurized cabin.

I agree with others opinion that this wheel thing may have been the start of the issues and then it got worse from the flapping around of the wheel housing parts.

 

[Hatfield]

I just woke my DH up to read him your post as he was wondering about this very thing. He is not a pilot or airplane savvy like many of you are. I had informed him of the A320 computer/pitons?/with the Air Asia flight and why I wanted to drive to Florida because of those issues. LOL.

ok....now I am flip-flopping on my theory. I am wondering about those Pitot tubes also. But that would not explain the no communication to the cockpit.


We now have at least 3 planes recently where the cockpit had no communication with ground control and either crashed or disappeared.

I am beginning to wonder if there is some sort of poison gas leak in the cockpit area of these planes.

Here is a wild theory.
Maybe someone in the PARTS SUPPLIERS or PARTS MANUFACTURING business is a terrorist and is supplying these planes with a purposely defective system that will slowly leak some sort of gas into the cockpit to knock out the pilots.

Or maybe even unintentional defective parts is eroding through the side wall and a toxic gas is getting into the cockpit.

Or it could be something like that when its triggered for the air masks to be deployed. Like lets say someone filled those Oxygen bottles with a poison gas instead. Nobody would be the wiser until the air masks deployed and when everyone grabbed their masks and took a deep breath, they are instantly knocked out or dead.

So many theories.

I sure hope investigators pinpoint what brought this plane down. I do think some similarities means these planes may have similar issues.

 

[Elley Mae]

But what if the flap folded down and the turbulance caused by the huge flap started tearing other pieces of the plane off and it may have ruptured the pressurized part of the plane resulting in rapid decompression which could have then caused the pilots to basically try to hang on until impact.

Some of the parts flapping around in the strong wind current may have caused the plane to be very difficult to fly as well as may have torn through the pressurized cabin.

I agree with others opinion that this wheel thing may have been the start of the issues and then it got worse from the flapping around of the wheel housing parts.

But then I think about the 8 minutes the plane went from 38,000 feet to 6000 ft and no alarms or bells or whistles going off to alert the pilot or co-pilot, no call outs to trouble. IDK The silence from the plane as it is descending is weird to me, 8 minutes and no call outs. IDK

...........................................

The aircraft took off at 10:01 a.m. No distress call was received, and the pilots lost radio contact with their control center, said France’s aviation authority.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/25/world/europe/germanwings-crash.html?_r=0

Evelyne Bayle, who lives in Le Vernet, France, said she heard the engines, but the sounds did not suggest that the plane had gone into free fall. “I was on my veranda and I heard the plane flying down; the engines were making a lot of noise,” she said. “The noise that we were hearing was really progressive.”

bbm

 

[skibaboo]

UPDATE #4U9525 French investigators release the first photos of one black box (Cockpit Voice Recorder)

 

[Hatfield]

But then I think about the 8 minutes the plane went from 38,000 feet to 6000 ft and no alarms or bells or whistles going off to alert the pilot or co-pilot, no call outs to trouble. IDK The silence from the plane as it is descending is weird to me, 8 minutes and no call outs. IDK

...........................................

The aircraft took off at 10:01 a.m. No distress call was received, and the pilots lost radio contact with their control center, said France’s aviation authority.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/25/world/europe/germanwings-crash.html?_r=0

Evelyne Bayle, who lives in Le Vernet, France, said she heard the engines, but the sounds did not suggest that the plane had gone into free fall. “I was on my veranda and I heard the plane flying down; the engines were making a lot of noise,” she said. “The noise that we were hearing was really progressive.”

bbm

Yea, the no communication indicates the pilots are incapacitated. Something is going on and its really scary. I think 2 or more planes may have the same issue. See poison gas theory above.

This is so bizarre and so scary. Lets hope investigators do a good job.

 

[CARIIS]

ok....now I am flip-flopping on my theory. I am wondering about those Pitot tubes also. But that would not explain the no communication to the cockpit.


We now have at least 3 planes recently where the cockpit had no communication with ground control and either crashed or disappeared.

I am beginning to wonder if there is some sort of poison gas leak in the cockpit area of these planes.

Here is a wild theory.
Maybe someone in the PARTS SUPPLIERS or PARTS MANUFACTURING business is a terrorist and is supplying these planes with a purposely defective system that will slowly leak some sort of gas into the cockpit to knock out the pilots.

Or maybe even unintentional defective parts is eroding through the side wall and a toxic gas is getting into the cockpit.

Or it could be something like that when its triggered for the air masks to be deployed. Like lets say someone filled those Oxygen bottles with a poison gas instead. Nobody would be the wiser until the air masks deployed and when everyone grabbed their masks and took a deep breath, they are instantly knocked out or dead.

So many theories.

I sure hope investigators pinpoint what brought this plane down. I do think some similarities means these planes may have similar issues.

]Hi Hat !

I think the nose gear door problem before takeoff is going to figure prominently in the intial sequence of events. Cant wait to find out what the CVR has on it. I cant do all the time zone things but they are hoping 4 this afternoon their time they will be able to provide some "clues". THe stuff on the CVR is amazing- it better damn work - one hell of an impact and their have been instances when impact and or fire prvented their operating.

 

[Isabelle]

If for some reason decompression before descending was them problem, would that information be on one of the black boxes. And, would decompression at the plane's highest altitude prior to descending cause crew and passengers to lose consciousness?Thanks

 

[Dr. Know?]

Just signed on & read this. Forgive me if it's already posted.

BREAKING #Germanwings #4U9525 Second black box found, but severely damaged; memory chip dislodged and missing.

https://twitter.com/airlivenet/status/580732959193473024

 

[Elley Mae]

"We cannot say at this point in time why our colleague decided to lower the plane as swiftly as he did," Winkelmann said. "We don't have any information about why he brought the plane down so quickly to a lower height."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/03/24/395011737/germanwings-a320-crashes-in-french-alps

Have they named the pilot yet? curious

 

[sweetheart29]

The wheel wells are non-pressurized areas and are separate from the cockpit/cabin. so the door could blow off and it would not affect the cockpit. It wouldnt be an explosive depressurization.

Airplanes can fly with the landing gear down just fine. Only way a landing gear issues will effect the plane is on take off or landing.

 

[Dr. Know?]

They haven't named either of the pilots.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Old article from 2012 in regards to engine oil vapors in some Germanwings flights.

Toxic Fumes: German Airline Safety Issues Larger than Thought

The memo comes to light just as German aviation has been hit by revelations of two incidents in which poisonous engine oil vapors leaked into airline cabins. At the end of September, an interim investigation report revealed contaminated cabin air caused pilots of Lufthansa's budget subsidiary Germanwings to nearly lose consciousness as they were trying to land a plane with 149 passengers and crew on board at Cologne-Bonn airport.

The flight from Vienna had been uneventful, but the Germanwings' pilots said that as they began their descent they started to feel sick and dizzy and one reached for his oxygen mask. Though they were found to have significantly lowered blood oxygen levels, they managed to land the plane without any passenger injuries. That incident took place in December 2010, just a month after Germany's Aviation Office issued the memo regarding reporting requirements.

http://www.spiegel.de/international...t-german-airlines-prompt-action-a-860044.html

 

[CARIIS]

If for some reason decompression before descending was them problem, would that information be on one of the black boxes. And, would decompression at the plane's highest altitude prior to descending cause crew and passengers to lose consciousness?Thanks

Yes, if the CVR was recording and is capable of being read, decomprehesion would be "heard". BUt we may have problem in that if whatever the intiating event was , results in the CVR stopping then we are in big mystery land again. The best bet would be for the recorder to record until impact. But there certainly seemed to be some electronic issues so it may end up where we just have a sudden stop.

If it was decompression and the cvr was not killed in intial event - they will be able to figure out where the breach in the cabin happened (they time impulses and can calculate and say the rear door blew off etc),


There are actually 5 microphones in the cockpit. ONe in each mouthpice, and three others to pick up ambiant noises, what swithes are being moved at exact second, what alarms are activating etc. .Each microphone has its own "track" on the CVR, and if works as designed they can listen to each track "solo". Its amazing stuff!