Germanwings Airbus crash 24 March #1

[Dogface]

I think if he made any announcements it would have been revealed on the recorder they have listened to and we would know. They only have mentioned him being pleasant and then curt to the pilot. They could hear the co-pilot breathing in the end.

Maybe information might be released about that in the coming days though. I wonder if he has left some kind of note somewhere or if he killed himself and murdered all those innocent people doing something he loved without explanation.

I've been wondering if a note will be found. don't most airports have a post office? Perhaps he dropped a letter in the mail? I wonder if they have tracked his movements through the airport that day via camera?

 

[chlban]

I understand in the USA a member of the cabin crew sits in if the pilot or co-pilot leave the cockpit. However I think realistically there would be little they could do if the pilot or co-pilot were intentionally crashing the plane.

Yes, its usually a flight attendant. I am not sure what anyone thinks an unarmed civilian is going to do it the pilot or co-pilot goes crazy.

I am not sure you can realistically prevent this type of situation. As we learned on 9/11 and re-learn with every newscast of suicide bombers, if someone is willing to die for their cause, there is little that can be done to prevent it. Even if their cause has no religious or political ramifications.

 

[zwiebel]

The Dusseldorf apartment is being searched right now (seems a little late). Press are camped outside Lubitz's family home where his parents live. I have great pity for them too. They've lost a son but the support and love extended at first has turned to horror. A neighbor Melanie said "What can you say? He killed 150 people."

(heard on radio)

I wish media would stop talking about the fragmented nature of the remains that have been found. We get it guys, we get it.

I hope France will request the help of the SUPERB Netherlands lab that identified so many victims of MH17. I'm sure they would help.

 

[ElleElle]

Counteractive, don't you think?

"The A320 is designed with safeguards to allow emergency entry into the cockpit if a pilot inside is unresponsive. But the override code known to the crew does not go into effect — and indeed goes into a lockdown — if the person inside the cockpit specifically denies entry."

http://wtop.com/europe/2015/03/official-1-pilot-locked-out-of-crash-plane-cockpit/

 

[gregjrichards]

It's not so much about them controlling the plane as making sure there isn't only 1 person in the cockpit who can then lock out the other pilot, as happened here, or leaving the lone pilot alone where someone else could possibly try to enter the cockpit. It's obviously done for safety, but why it wasn't protocol on Lufthansa, who knows. It should change, at a minimum.

From what I have read it is not protocol on most if any countries outside the USA. Having another person in the cockpit may have stopped the door being locked but the plane may have crashed anyway whilst a physical fight was going on in the cockpit. It wouldn't have been easy to put the co-pilot in a choke hold and forcibly remove him from his seat. All this going on whilst the plane wasn't being flown.

 

[Snick1946]

This needs to change. I don't know how but what someone mentioned above sounds at least resonable, that (in the US) another member of staff sits in for anyone leaving the cockpit.
I just can't understand in this day and age and with everything evil going on anyone, however seemingly reliable, would be allowed alone to care for 150 people.

It's money, it always is. Airlines don't want to spend the money to provide additional staff for their flights. Well, they are going to have to now.

 

[Dogface]

The Dusseldorf apartment is being searched right now (seems a little late). Press are camped outside Lubitz's family home where his parents live. I have great pity for them too. They've lost a son but the support and love extended at first has turned to horror. A neighbor Melanie said "What can you say? He killed 150 people."

(heard on radio)

I wish media would stop talking about the fragmented nature of the remains that have been found. We get it guys, we get it.

I hope France will request the help of the SUPERB Netherlands lab that identified so many victims of MH17. I'm sure they would help.

Ugh I hadn't heard that about the remains, although Im sure on a subconscious level I knew that, but sometimes the media goes too far with things we don't need to them and come up short on the info we really need.

It is sad to me that his parents will be left to make whatever sense of this they can largely on their own. I've been told when people overcome a tragedy that a bond often forms that helps them to cope, and unfortunately they will not have that extended family to lean on and grieve with. Not that anyone ever wants to have to have that bond, but, bonds such as that help us all I believe in trying times.

The only thing that could sway my heartfelt sorrow for them would be if he had been displaying erratic or irregular behavior to them and they didn't do anything about it. We all have to remember that we are each other's best protection, that often we can spot things in others before they see it themselves and it's important to speak your heart to those you feel may be slipping away from reality.

 

[zwiebel]

http://m.bild.de/news/ausland/flug-...te=L,wantedContextId=17410084.bildMobile.html

 

[Elley Mae]

It's money, it always is. Airlines don't want to spend the money to provide additional staff for their flights. Well, they are going to have to now.

I tell you this is not good for the airlines, suicide/murderous pilots.

 

[gregjrichards]

It's money, it always is. Airlines don't want to spend the money to provide additional staff for their flights. Well, they are going to have to now.

Sadly I think this tragedy will be treated as an extremely rare isolated incident and next to nothing in the industry will change. Nothing much in the industry has been done since flight MH370 disappeared.

 

[Madeleine74]

From what I have read it is not protocol on most if any countries outside the USA. Having another person in the cockpit may have stopped the door being locked but the plane may have crashed anyway whilst a physical fight was going on in the cockpit. It wouldn't have been easy to put the co-pilot in a choke hold and forcibly remove him from his seat. All this going on whilst the plane wasn't being flown.

I read that as well. I think that protocol needs to be re-examined in light of this tragedy.

If the pilot could have gotten back in, he could have brought help with him to manhandle the copilot and get him out of the way. It sure would have given them a better chance than they had. There wouldn't have been up to 10 min of the airplane descending as they would have been able to get in the cockpit right away. It's a function of time.

We've seen stories where passengers and crew have helped restrain other deranged people on flights and even in one case one of the pilots of a flight who went cray-cray and was trying to crash the plane or was at least screaming that they were going to crash. He was then tied up and immobilized by others and the plane landed safely. That pilot was fired and faced prosecution and IIRC he was determined to be mentally ill or incompetent, but he can never fly again.

 

[zwiebel]

A crew member will always be asked to stay with a pilot/co-pilot in Europe from now on? Anyone else hear about that?

 

[ElleElle]

cops at his house - he also had an apt.

flight club post before learning it was on purpose I would suppose !

As a youth, Andreas became a member of the club, he wanted to see his dream of flying fulfilled. He started as a gliding student and managed to become a pilot of the Airbus A320. He succeeded in fulfilling his dream, a dream that he paid for with his life. The members of LSC Westerwald are grieving for Andreas and all the other 149 victims of the catastrophe of March 24, 2015. Our deepest condolences to the relatives. We will not forget Andrea

member Peter Ruecker told the AP that Lubitz had a girlfriend. He added that Lubitz visited the club last fall to renew his glider’s license and “He seemed very enthusiastic … I can’t remember anything where something wasn’t right.”

Lubitz possessed a United States FAA-issued private pilot’s license, issued in 2012. The U.S. FAA also issued Lubitz a student license in 2010.

A 2013 article in the Aviation Business Gazette praised Lubitz as a pilot who “sets [a] positive example.


.heavy.com/news/2015/03/andreas-lubitz-copilot-germanwings-flight-4u9525-plane-crash-french-alps/

His last medical was almost 5 years ago?? Don't they have yearly physicals?

 

[CARIIS]

his friend and glider he flew

http://www.timesunion.com/news/slideshow/Nation-World-photos-967/photo-7719137.php

getting some of yesterdays reporting cleared up !

average descent rate3,500 feet per minute). (varies 2500–5000 ft/min)

aircraft reached a cruising speed of 490 mph). . Three minutes later, the aircraft speed increased, 593 mph) after 20 seconds.[SUP][13][/SUP] wow aalmost 600 mph! The aircraft speed decreased near end of descent, reducing from 480 to 552 to 435 mph

A French military Mirage jet was scrambled from the Orange air base[SUP][16][/SUP] to intercept the plane.Ms Royal confirmed this morning that, soon after 10.30am, when the pilots had stopped responding by radio, the French military scrambled a Mirage jet fighter to investigate. This aircraft was seen by eye-witnesses following the doomed airliner as it skimmed the Alpine ridges before crashing into a sheer mountain-side. The pilot of the Mirage could, therefore, also possess crucial information on the Germanwings aircraft's behaviour.



The crash is the deadliest air disaster in France since the crash of Inex-Adria Aviopromet Flight 1308 in 1981, in which 180 people died, and the third-deadliest in French history behind Flight 1308 and Turkish Airlines Flight 981

first major crash of a civil airliner in France since the Air France Flight 4590 Concorde crash near Paris in 2000.[SUP][32][/SUP] The crash is also the first loss of a Lufthansa-owned airliner during the cruising phase of flight.[SUP][33]

The crash site is within the Massif des Trois-Évêchés, and is close to Mount Cimet, where Air France Flight 178 crashed in 1953

The DGAC has set up temporary flight restrictions in the area surrounding the crash site

It served with Germanwings for the first time in 2003. It was returned to Lufthansa in 2004 and was re-transferred to the relaunched Germanwings on 31 January 2014.[SUP][47]


[/SUP]accumulated about 58,300 flight hours on 46,700 flights.[ designed for :60,000 hours or 48,000 flights.

In 2012, an optional Extended Service Goal (ESG1) was approved, extending the service life to 120,000 hours or 60,000 flights, provided that a required package of service and inspections was performed before the DSG was reached.[SUP][49]


[/SUP]captain flew A320 and for both Luth and German wings (downaward trojectory going from mainline to spin off?)

[/SUP]glide to destruction 'took 18 minutes not 8'


For 17 minutes, it shed around 1,000 feet of height a minute

CVR, located by its location beacon at the crash site


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...struction-took-18-minutes-not-8-10131891.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525

 

[gregjrichards]

SKY News UK is reporting that Easyjet airlines is changing company policy from tomorrow to ensure there are always two people in the cockpit at all times. Perhaps more airlines will follow suit.

 

[gregjrichards]

A crew member will always be asked to stay with a pilot/co-pilot in Europe from now on? Anyone else hear about that?

SKY News UK is reporting that Easyjet is changing its policy from tomorrow to ensure that two people are always in the cockpit at all times. I don't know of any other airlines taking their lead in Europe yet.

 

[Gin]

SKY News UK is reporting that Easyjet airlines is changing company policy from tomorrow to ensure there are always two people in the cockpit at all times. Perhaps more airlines will follow suit.

JMO-Good. I'm fairly certain others will follow. Their insurance carriers will probably have something to say about mitigating risk.

 

[zwiebel]

Remember that French goatherd who swore he saw a plane being tailed by a military jet that was so close he thought it was going to hit it? He was right.

I hardly understand a word of spoken French, but I did think he sounded genuine.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Air Canada is changing its rules to require two people in the cockpit at all times, AP reports.

Spokesman Peter Fitzpatrick says the airliner is implementing the new rules “without delay” but did not disclose the company’s former policy.

The FAA has not yet responded to the Guardian’s queries about its rules or recommendations regarding cockpit security, but my colleague Amanda Holpuch (@holpuch) spoke with Aaron Karp, a senior editor at Air Transport World, who is combing FAA regulations looking for a rule.

Karp said that it is standard airline policy to require two people in the cockpit.



“The impression I am getting is that it is just something that most US airlines implemented for domestic flights, it may have been something that the FAA recommends, but I’m not sure there is a list of rules and regulations that says this has to be the case,” Karp said.

He thinks airlines implement this practice so that someone knows what is going on in case their is a medical emergency in the cockpit.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...tigation-press-conference-live-updates-4u9525

 

[ElleElle]

Sadly I think this tragedy will be treated as an extremely rare isolated incident and next to nothing in the industry will change. Nothing much in the industry has been done since flight MH370 disappeared.

This really makes me believe a similar incident happened with MH370.