Germanwings Airbus crash 24 March #1

[zwiebel]

Robert Oliver Calvo just identified as third American victim.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/nat...ty-Spain-Identified-Crash-Alps-297680181.html

 

[Snick1946]

Why haven't we heard anything about possible cell calls by passengers? Was it possible for them to have done so? A lot of the passengers on the doomed flights on 9-11 did so- couldn't they? Or is this something being withheld from us? Not that I disagree for now.

 

[JanetElaine]

Guyzzz... stop talking.... I'm just now getting online and am 15 pages behind... :gaah: :heartluv:

 

[CARIIS]

Two people in the cockpit is not an FAA requirement, but is generally standard procedure.

That is what I thought, I never heard of it till today. It was my understanding that when a flight crew member left they put a cart in front of the door but now I have no idea!!!!!!


Had Andreas Lubitz been flying an airline enforcing this policy, he would have needed to incapacitate this flight attendant prior to crashing the plane. This would not necessarily be an easier endeavor than incapacitating the captain. Waiting for the captain to exit and then going rogue is still possible, but would be a much more difficult feat.

Read more: http://pjmedia.com/blog/do-u-s-airlines-require-two-people-in-cockpit-at-all-times/#ixzz3VW7D3Qqo

I also have pondered if he had planned on this god knows how long ago and just "waited" until the time hit or was he like aware that today is the day -- you know what I mean.
​

 

[sar2them1984]

SKY News UK is reporting that Easyjet is changing its policy from tomorrow to ensure that two people are always in the cockpit at all times. I don't know of any other airlines taking their lead in Europe yet.

Really though? Unless the other person who steps in is a qualified pilot what hope of they of doing anything if the remaining pilot/fo is hellbent on doing something like this.

I mean if I had been asked to step inside the cockpit while the pilot went to the toilet would I have known the fo had locked the pilot out? Probably not until it was too late and even if I did there's a very slim possibility that I could do anything to reverse it. Same as the fo manually overriding systems - I know I wouldn't have a clue what he was doing, again until it was possibly too late I. E. I see we are going to crash and it wouldn't take much for the fo to feign trying to get the aircraft under control but not succeeding

 

[Gin]

Sadly I think this tragedy will be treated as an extremely rare isolated incident and next to nothing in the industry will change. Nothing much in the industry has been done since flight MH370 disappeared.

JMO--I understand what you're saying. But, I think the elephant in the room are the insurance carriers. They really can't sustain repeated humongous payouts. They will be the driving force for change with the airlines. The pilots unions have a lot of things they'd rather not see in the cockpit, but the time has come for more safety features. Better tracking, cameras, and other safety modifications are likely on the horizon.

(And I am not anti-union. I just know a bit about the history of how we got to the point of still having basically old technology in the cockpit, while the rest of us live in a newer, updated tech world.)

 

[Gin]

Guyzzz... stop talking.... I'm just now getting online and am 15 pages behind... :gaah: :heartluv:

Okeydokey. I need to do some laundry anyway.

 

[gitana1]

Sadly I think this tragedy will be treated as an extremely rare isolated incident and next to nothing in the industry will change. Nothing much in the industry has been done since flight MH370 disappeared.

But it is an an extremely rare incident. Statistically almost impossible.

However, I don't share your opinion that the airline industry will do nothing. Perceptions about safety affect the industry's bottom line. In my opinion they have been very proactive in the past whenever an incident has occurred. They've made numerous changes every time they discovered a problem.

I really think that routine psychological examinations at the time of their health check ups, might be helpful for pilots.

But even then, sometimes evil people like this slip through the cracks. What kind of selfish, inhuman monster takes 150 people to their doom along with him? Jim jones? This guy wanted to take people out with him. He wanted to make people suffer. The question is why?

 

[ElleElle]

Here's a solution.

NO -pit door?

Here we are, another era for the airline industry.

 

[zwiebel]

Why haven't we heard anything about possible cell calls by passengers? Was it possible for them to have done so? A lot of the passengers on the doomed flights on 9-11 did so- couldn't they? Or is this something being withheld from us? Not that I disagree for now.

I was thinking about that, but then thought there was only a total of 8 minutes. So if you subtract three or four for the pilot to visit the bathroom, return and find the door locked...then another minute of him knocking at the door before he really panics, another minute before passengers seated nearby had time to take in what was happening and figure the implications...it just seems there probably wasn't enough time left to call.

People further back in the plane probably never knew what was about to happen, thank heavens. I hope the children were amongst them.

 

[Dockins]

Really though? Unless the other person who steps in is a qualified pilot what hope of they of doing anything if the remaining pilot/fo is hellbent on doing something like this.

I mean if I had been asked to step inside the cockpit while the pilot went to the toilet would I have known the fo had locked the pilot out? Probably not until it was too late and even if I did there's a very slim possibility that I could do anything to reverse it. Same as the fo manually overriding systems - I know I wouldn't have a clue what he was doing, again until it was possibly too late I. E. I see we are going to crash and it wouldn't take much for the fo to feign trying to get the aircraft under control but not succeeding

They could unlock the door manually, or lock it securely if needed.

 

[gitana1]

Here's a solution.

NO -pit door?

Here we are, another era for the airline industry.

So that every terrorist wanna be can have immediate access to the cockpit? Definite reason why pit doors are now locked.

 

[CARIIS]

Fascinating 5 min video on how the cockpit door works.

The acting is not up for any Acadamy awards (!) but very helpful in getting "it" I am visual. BUT the finale 50 seconds raises questions -----the captain would certainly know about the 5 second auto open???? AM I confused about the final 50 seconds?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixEHV7c3VXs

 

[zwiebel]

I've been told it's technically quite possible to have pilotless flights but passengers polled find the idea unacceptable. Not sure if this is completely accurate though as it was a tech person who told me this, not a pilot.

 

[Gin]

I've been told it's technically quite possible to have pilotless flights but passengers polled find the idea unacceptable. Not sure if this is completely accurate though as it was a tech person who told me this, not a pilot.

JMO--Much of the commercial flying now is on autopilot. More than many folks would ever think.

 

[SophieRose]

Tid bits:


This sounds like confidentiality stuff:
Lufthansa revealed that Lubitz’s training in 2009 had been briefly interrupted, but was resumed after “his suitability as a candidate was re-established”. Asked about the reason for the interruption, the CEO, Carsten Spohr, said he was not allowed to say.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...tigation-press-conference-live-updates-4u9525

Lubitz had started training in 2008 – first working as a flight attendant – and there was nothing unusual in the results of his training, but acknowledged there had been a gap without saying what had caused it.

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/germanwings-fakten-ueber-co-pilot-andreas-l-a-1025760.html

What interrupted Andreas L. his training in 2009? Lufthansa CEO Spohr relied on medical confidentiality, which applies equally beyond death. In L. suitability was then found again, he had continued the training.

 

[sar2them1984]

They could unlock the door manually, or lock it securely if needed.

Can you unlock it manually from the inside other than using the switch on the control panel?

 

[michmi]

JMO-I'm sure there are lots of opinions. I see him as a sociopath who opted for (alleged) mass murder.
The "suicide" isn't a blip on my radar.

I don't think this is about "him" at all. I think it's possible he's part of a sleeper cell or a lone wolf assisting the Islamic State. It's not like Germany hasn't been connected to such things before (Sept. 11).

 

[Gin]

I don't think this is about "him" at all. I think it will turn out he's part of a sleeper cell or a lone wolf assisting the Islamic State. It's not like Germany hasn't been connected to such things before (Sept. 11).

JMO--Who knows. Are you reaching back to the Red Army Faction days with the reference to Germany specifically? Or do you have something else in mind?

 

[cascade]

It seems to have been an impulsive act. Perhaps something had happened in his life recently that led him to do this. Suicide seems likely.