Germany/Portugal - Christian Brueckner, 27 @ time of 1st crime (2004), charged with sexual assault crimes, Praia de Rocha, Portugal. #4

[Davieson]

Would winning an appeal not undermine the credibility of the court and the judges and require a re-trial ?

 

[Dave55]

Is the court in session today

 

[mrjitty]

Would winning an appeal not undermine the credibility of the court and the judges and require a re-trial ?

No.

I am not sure if what they are discussing is the equivalent of an interlocutory appeal, only about the arrest warrant, or an appeal of the impending acquittal.

MOO

 

[Mex]

If it was their strong case, why waste time on these 'lesser' charges? I see over confidence and under preparation here, the prosecution assuming this trial would be, if not a walk in the park, at least deliver them some further jail time breathing space. They can appeal of course but what can they possibly have in appeal terms that they failed to use in the trial? The idea that they still have critical cards to play seems unlikely, to say the least.

It's a grim and highly embarrassing result and it's entirely down to the prosecution's failure to put together a decent, credible case against CB.

There is a problem regarding the process of the five cases for which CB is indicted of which not a single solitary one has the slightest bearing on MM. And that problem is that the the focus is not so much concerned with dealing with serious sexual criminality but on a case for which no charges have as yet been laid.

Hypothetically thinking and regarding the incident on Salema beach on April 2007 when CB was allegedly naked and concentrating on bodily functions other than a pee pee - the potential there is horrendous had the child's family not appeared at the scene.
The judge might explain why the court thought their eye witness testimonies of a potential abduction backed up with police reports at the time didn't make the grade in this trial.

 

[Mex]

No.

I am not sure if what they are discussing is the equivalent of an interlocutory appeal, only about the arrest warrant, or an appeal of the impending acquittal.

MOO

Would the time for deciding that appeal not have been followed through pre trial and at the time when charges were laid in 2022.

On the other hand you may be correct in that it is circumvention of a future appeal.
The judge may be applying belt an braces.

 

[Niner]

Is the court in session today

It is tomorrow, Friday, July 5th & then again on August 5th, 15th & 16th & more in September & October.

Maybe we will find out "what" is going on in more detail - tomorrow...

 

[RichardKimble]

As I understand there is a witness who hasn't been heard yet. A profiler who will give evidence on the similarities of the rape of DM and HB. Whether this will make a difference remains to be seen.

The profiler evidence as been rejected by the court because of bias.there is more but It's paywalled.

BKA chief profiler Harald Dern had once set up quality standards for case analysis itself, which the Chamber considered to be violated in the Christian B. case. Dern may have to explain how this could have happened in the process. In any case, he may no longer refer to the individual case analyzes and relate the findings of his three colleagues for his upcoming lecture on the comparative case analysis of the deeds at the expense of Diana M. and Hazel B. His expert lecture should only be based on his impression from the questioning of Hazel B.

Maddie-Verdächtiger Christian B. - BKA-Profiler sind befangen

Diese Entscheidung des Landgerichts Braunschweig macht es für die Anklage schwer, eine Vergewaltigung nachzuweisen. Der Prozess wird Freitag fortgesetzt. Wie reagiert Christian B. auf die Aufhebung seines Haftbefehls?

www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de

 

[Dave55]

Would the time for deciding that appeal not have been followed through pre trial and at the time when charges were laid in 2022.

On the other hand you may be correct in that it is circumvention of a future appeal.
The judge may be applying belt an braces.

J

The profiler evidence as been rejected by the court because of bias.there is more but It's paywalled.

BKA chief profiler Harald Dern had once set up quality standards for case analysis itself, which the Chamber considered to be violated in the Christian B. case. Dern may have to explain how this could have happened in the process. In any case, he may no longer refer to the individual case analyzes and relate the findings of his three colleagues for his upcoming lecture on the comparative case analysis of the deeds at the expense of Diana M. and Hazel B. His expert lecture should only be based on his impression from the questioning of Hazel B.

Maddie-Verdächtiger Christian B. - BKA-Profiler sind befangen

Diese Entscheidung des Landgerichts Braunschweig macht es für die Anklage schwer, eine Vergewaltigung nachzuweisen. Der Prozess wird Freitag fortgesetzt. Wie reagiert Christian B. auf die Aufhebung seines Haftbefehls?

www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de

I've looked at the rest of the article. There were three profiles the chief ons being Harald Dearn. It seems he will be able to give evidence but can only base his opinion on the witness statement of HB

So hopefully all is not lost

 

[Davieson]

I'm glad to see the judge insisting that the rules of law are followed in her court.

 

[Mex]

I'm glad to see the judge insisting that the rules of law are followed in her court.

Me too! Not surprising though, given that is her function. But it doesn't make her infallible which is why there are inbuilt safeguards to the process else who eases the bias against those who have suffered sexual assault.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I wonder why the Braunschweig court thinks the evidence against CB regarding this crime has no merit

I also fail to see why a judge would have doubt on this one case. Very disheartening if the families who were there that day are just expected to accept this from this suspect, IMO.

 

[Davieson]

I also fail to see why a judge would have doubt on this one case. Very disheartening if the families who were there that day are just expected to accept this from this suspect, IMO.

I would expect a judge to have doubts about everything so as to get to the truth of the matter.

 

[UK Girl]

I'm glad to see the judge insisting that the rules of law are followed in her court.

You would think that was a given to be honest

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I would expect a judge to have doubts about everything so as to get to the truth of the matter.

I mean reasonable doubt after the evidence was presented. Of course, I didn't see the trial or hear the evidence being presented there. My opinion is from what's been reported.

 

[Davieson]

I mean reasonable doubt after the evidence was presented. Of course, I didn't see the trial or hear the evidence being presented there. My opinion is from what's been reported.

Then it would seem reasonable to me to accept that the judge knows more about the case than us lay observers.

 

[RichardKimble]

I mean reasonable doubt after the evidence was presented. Of course, I didn't see the trial or hear the evidence being presented there. My opinion is from what's been reported.

That's the thing the court is hearing all the evidence we are relying on press reports mostly from the German papers and relying on translations, one thing to determine imo is that the evidence doesn't satisfy a threshold to hold CB under arrest for the charges
Any prior reporting especially from the brit press is to be held in the contempt it deserves imo.

 

[UK Girl]

That's the thing the court is hearing all the evidence we are relying on press reports mostly from the German papers and relying on translations, one thing to determine imo is that the evidence doesn't satisfy a threshold to hold CB under arrest for the charges
Any prior reporting especially from the brit press is to be held in the contempt it deserves imo.

I think another issue is many have read the many many articles in Olive Press which likely were not all true. I know that I have been questioning a lot recently.

 

[RichardKimble]

I think another issue is many have read the many many articles in Olive Press which likely were not all true. I know that I have been questioning a lot recently.

Was any of it true?

 

[UK Girl]

Was any of it true?

Probably not ;(

 

[Anxala]

I mean reasonable doubt after the evidence was presented. Of course, I didn't see the trial or hear the evidence being presented there. My opinion is from what's been reported.

On the surface, it looked like the one charge likely to incur a conviction but, at trial, the evidence just wasn't clear cut enough to pass the BARD test. The defence argument of a drunk CB caught short and peeing couldn't be discounted, particularly when there was only one witness and she, as an 11yr old, didn't know enough to be able to say with confidence that what he was doing was masturbating as opposed to the defence argument that he was merely shaking himself off after having a pee. CB's obviously guilty of exposing himself in a public place, there's no argument against that, just that there's no way of conclusively apportioning the intent the prosecution claimed on his part.

And that's what the judge has had to weigh up and come to a conclusion about. Which she has.

And as someone privy to all the background and evidence put forward in this trial, we need to trust her decision-making here and accept that the justice that we want delivered is being delivered.

Unless of course some don't like the turn this trial has taken and are now looking for reasons to question and discount her findings? Surely not? That would so not be in the spirit of wanting justice to be served.