Germany/Portugal - Christian Brueckner, 27 @ time of 1st crime (2004), charged with sexual assault crimes, Praia de Rocha, Portugal. #4

[RichardKimble]

So if the prosecution are successful in removing the judges because of of bias, what's to prevent the defence in doing the same halfway through another trial, sauce for the goose.

 

[Mex]

The argument goes that the judges haven't seen all the evidence, wasn't this presented pre trial?

It would have been.
But apparently the judge presiding over that stage of the proceedings is not necessarily the trial judge who may only be seeing it at the trial stage.

Snip
Presumption of Innocence: procedural rights in criminal proceedings
Social Fieldwork Research (FRANET)

Taken from page 40
First of all, they criticised the fact that pursuant to the law, the judge who reviewed the indictment during the intermediate proceedings and decided whether a conviction in the main trial would be likely, was the same judge who would be in charge of the main trial later on.
...
In their view, however, this would not be in accordance with the law, as the code of criminal procedure prescribed that an accused person could only be sentenced on the basis of the main trial.
The interviewees added that there were empirical studies on this issue. According to them, these showed through experiments that judges who did not know the file acquitted a significant amount more people in the main trial than judges who had knowledge of the file

https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/germany-2021-country-research-presumption-innocence_en.pdf

It seems that there is a possibility that the presiding judge in a German trial may not have the in-depth familiarity with the evidence that the judge who dealt with the initial stages of the proceedings where supporting evidence supported charges being laid.

 

[Monic]

Personally, it does indeed seem like there isn't enough evidence. Even though we know better...
But now they may be forced to charge him in the Maddie case.
They've spent years procrastinating and looking for evidence, trying to gain even more time, and as long as CB is in custody, well, you're not in such a hurry.
It's time for the evidence in the Maddie case to come to light

 

[Davieson]

Personally, it does indeed seem like there isn't enough evidence. Even though we know better...
But now they may be forced to charge him in the Maddie case.
They've spent years procrastinating and looking for evidence, trying to gain even more time, and as long as CB is in custody, well, you're not in such a hurry.
It's time for the evidence in the Maddie case to come to light

Actually I don't accept that argument. If there is insufficient evidence to charge, the case should be reclassified as a cold case and investigators move on the other cases, of which there will be more than enough to keep them in employment.

 

[Dave55]

Actually I don't accept that argument. If there is insufficient evidence to charge, the case should be reclassified as a cold case and investigators move on the other cases, of which there will be more than enough to keep them in employment.

Wolters has said they have enough to charge bit want to charge with the best possible evidence.
His hand may be forced unless the present trial is stopped

 

[Davieson]

Wolters has said they have enough to charge bit want to charge with the best possible evidence.
His hand may be forced unless the present trial is stopped

That was said several years ago and he has never followed through.
Its time he did so, or give up on his attempt to implicate CB.
IMO

 

[RichardKimble]

Wolters has said they have enough to charge bit want to charge with the best possible evidence.
His hand may be forced unless the present trial is stopped

Well the current trial if its a bellweather for the MM case is lacking imo.

 

[RichardKimble]

Personally, it does indeed seem like there isn't enough evidence. Even though we know better...
But now they may be forced to charge him in the Maddie case.
They've spent years procrastinating and looking for evidence, trying to gain even more time, and as long as CB is in custody, well, you're not in such a hurry.
It's time for the evidence in the Maddie case to come to light

Bit presumptious if I might say, we're not in court listening to that which is presented.

 

[RichardKimble]

Paywall but editorial opinion.

06.07.2024, 10:00 Uhr • Lesezeit: 10 Minuten

Von Hendrik Rasehorn
Regionalreporter Nord

Prozess gegen Maddie-Verdächtigen - Attacke der Anklägerinnen

Christian B.: Die Braunschweiger Staatsanwältinnen greifen zur schärfsten Waffe: Sie stellen einen Befangenheitsantrag gegen die drei Richter. Gekämpft wird um die öffentliche Meinung, vorgebaut wird für die Revision.

www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de

A public prosecutor's application for a court is rare, and it is even rarer. The chances of success are likely to be slim. The board has not indicated that it wants to put an end to it prematurely. Instead, new appointments have been made for failed people, witnesses and experts will continue to be heard.

 

[Mex]

Personally, it does indeed seem like there isn't enough evidence. Even though we know better...
But now they may be forced to charge him in the Maddie case.
They've spent years procrastinating and looking for evidence, trying to gain even more time, and as long as CB is in custody, well, you're not in such a hurry.
It's time for the evidence in the Maddie case to come to light

CB has already been indicted for five serious sexual offences which have not as yet been settled in a court of law so what would be the purpose in adding yet another to the count.

There is yet another element to this courtroom saga which is quite inexplicable.

It could be generally agreed that CB's legal representatives have conducted a very robust and convoluted campaign on his behalf.
During which time CB's welfare has been a concern and subject to complaint on his behalf from his isolation to the temperature of his shower water.

He has also suffered physical injury while in custody.
Snip
He suffered two broken ribs and needed hospital treatment, according to the national newspaper Bild.
His lawyer, FF is said to have a filed a formal complaint ...

Madeleine McCann suspect 'taken to hospital with broken ribs after row in cell'

Christian B, as he is known under German privacy laws, reportedly needed hospital treatment following the altercation.

news.sky.com

At #395 on this thread
Snip
In addition to the handcuffs, 47-year-old Christian B. also wore ankle cuffs and a belly belt over his jacket. The unusual appearance in the almost one-hour trial in the Braunschweig district court was not discussed.

She is not aware of a safety-relevant background, said a court spokeswoman on request. And she could not provide any information about the state of health of the accused. Defender PM explained after the short trial that his client had complained in advance of foot pain and had been treated. There were no further details at first.

Christian B. im Rollstuhl in Gerichtssaal gefahren

In der knapp einstündigen Verhandlung gegen Christian B. wurden am Freitag keine großen Wendungen erwartet. Eine Überraschung gab es im Prozess gegen den auch im Fall Maddie Verdächtigen aber doch.

www.rtl.de

When will the formal complaint be made on CB's behalf by his defence team? is there going to be one? and if not - when will we be told why not and the reason for the restraints used on the prisoner when handcuffs had previously sufficed?
Maybe the defence does not regard such restraining of a wheelchair bound prisoner to be prejudicial.
C.3 The presentation of suspects and accused persons
from page #33
Snip
A larger group of defence lawyers was convinced that these measures also had an impact on the public officials. They justified this view with the assumption that the presumption of innocence was affected subconsciously by many things and that no judges could free themselves of the visual impressions they gained of the physically restrained defendant

https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/germany-2021-country-research-presumption-innocence_en.pdf

 

[Mex]

Bit presumptious if I might say, we're not in court listening to that which is presented.

Neither are we and the information coming from within the court is so disjointed as to be next to impossible to follow with much meaning despite Niner keeping us up to date on proceedings.
My opinion

 

[Niner]

Neither are we and the information coming from within the court is so disjointed as to be next to impossible to follow with much meaning despite Niner keeping us up to date on proceedings.
My opinion

And I am having a hard time keeping up with what is REALLY going on... Like someone said above - we are not in the court room - so much of what is going on is not in the articles unfortunately.

Like for yesterday - any articles on the 2 witnesses - from Finland? - for Hazel's case - their names & the eye expert was on yesterday from what I have read that has been posted here.

If anyone has more on the ladies & eye expert - TIA

Next I have trial on August 5th.

 

[RichardKimble]

Next I have trial on August 5th.

Yes, enjoy an holiday away from this, although no doubt some article will appear linking CB to some unsolved missing child.

 

[Dave55]

And I am having a hard time keeping up with what is REALLY going on... Like someone said above - we are not in the court room - so much of what is going on is not in the articles unfortunately.

Like for yesterday - any articles on the 2 witnesses - from Finland? - for Hazel's case - their names & the eye expert was on yesterday from what I have read that has been posted here.

If anyone has more on the ladies & eye expert - TIA

Next I have trial on August 5th.

It seems the eye expert confirmed that HB would be able to recognise CB by his eyes

 

[Niner]

It seems the eye expert confirmed that HB would be able to recognise CB by his eyes

I saw that quote. Thanks! Anything on the two other witnesses? I'm guessing the ladies from Finland....

 

[Davieson]

I suppose it would depend upon her cognitive ability after nearly 20 years.
The test would be to present her with images of a couple of dozen sets of blue eyes to see if she could identify CB. Rather like looking at a book of mugshots.

 

[tedtink]

I suppose it would depend upon her cognitive ability after nearly 20 years.
The test would be to present her with images of a couple of dozen sets of blue eyes to see if she could identify CB. Rather like looking at a book of mugshots.

Respectfully
She's 40, not 95!

 

[Anxala]

Paywall but editorial opinion.

Prozess gegen Maddie-Verdächtigen - Attacke der Anklägerinnen

Christian B.: Die Braunschweiger Staatsanwältinnen greifen zur schärfsten Waffe: Sie stellen einen Befangenheitsantrag gegen die drei Richter. Gekämpft wird um die öffentliche Meinung, vorgebaut wird für die Revision.

www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de

A public prosecutor's application for a court is rare, and it is even rarer. The chances of success are likely to be slim. The board has not indicated that it wants to put an end to it prematurely. Instead, new appointments have been made for failed people, witnesses and experts will continue to be heard.

^ I wonder what that means? Who are these failed people? What does 'new appointments' mean? Is it referring to those yet to give evidence?

 

[RichardKimble]

^ I wonder what that means? Who are these failed people? What does 'new appointments' mean? Is it referring to those yet to give evidence?

That's how I take it, one of the judges was ill, making dates for the dates lost because of that.

 

[Anxala]

That's how I take it, one of the judges was ill, making dates for the dates lost because of that.

Oh ok. So 'appointments' mean new dates to make up for missed days. That makes more sense. Thanks.