Germany/Portugal - Christian Brueckner, 27 @ time of 1st crime (2004), charged with sexual assault crimes, Praia de Rocha, Portugal. #4

[frank-cole]

Goo

Interesting concept that the proceedings are so dragged out.
It does mean that judges and lawyers have ample time to consider witness statements and prepare further questions at leisure.
Very different to a jury trial where lawyers have to think on their feet and may miss or omit to question some crucial piece of evidence.

Good point, it probably does have an effect. It enables more time to reflect. In a case of a serial sexual offender, involving multiple crimes - perhaps the trial, in 1 block - (4-6 week ish) - reflects the serial nature of the offending and therefore can be displayed more effectively in court. Long gaps could perhaps render evidence & witnesses to be perceived independently rather than taken into wider context of a 1 offender 1 area 5 sex crimes.

My opinion

 

[Lilly b]

A reasonable concept.
But is the process really as dragged out as all that considering that there are five separate trials underway; that days have been expended when questioning took place on unrelated incidents designed to shake the reliability of witnesses, but also to attempt access to the MM files;

• May 2, 2024: Mark Draycott is a Scotland Yard investigator working on the Maddie case. On the twelfth day of the trial, his testimony was heard. He contradicts a statement by key witness Helge B. In addition, it becomes known on this day that the Göttingen Regional Court has rejected the application for a retrial against Christian B. from 2019 as inadmissible.
• March 14, 2024: On the fourth day of the trial, ... Later, the defense filed a motion to be granted access to all investigation files against Christian B. – including the Madeleine McCann case. It is already clear that the trial will probably not end in June, but will take longer.

and there has been at least one delay due to illness.

• May 22, 2024: On day 17, the head of the BKA's operational case analysis was supposed to testify. The Federal Criminal Police Office has compared the rape of Hazel B. with the rape of the 72-year-old American woman, for which Christian B. was convicted. But: The chief profiler is missing for reasons of illness. Christian B.'s lawyers file a motion for rejection – due to bias.
• June 28, 2024: At the end of June, some trial dates are cancelled due to the illness of a person involved in the judiciary.

The exposure incident in the Messines playground is interesting from the point of view of the gap between the then child witnesses being interviewed.
Difficult to determine only from the headline ... but was there any suspicion that an issue of perjury might have been suggested?

• April 12, 2024: On the eighth day of the trial, an alleged victim has his say for the first time: the then eleven-year-old in front of whom Christian B. is said to have masturbated. The now 18-year-old and the father are switched from Portugal to the Braunschweig district court.
• April 26, 2024: On the eleventh day of the trial, another witness from Portugal is heard. The man had held the defendant on a playground in 2017 until he was arrested by the police. According to his descriptions, Christian B. first tried to move away and then claimed that he had only urinated.
• August 5, 2024: The trial continues after a summer break. BKA chief profiler Harald Dern testifies. He talks about the similarities and differences between the rape of the 72-year-old American woman, for which B. was convicted, and the act against Hazel B. In addition, the court is again concerned with the latest alleged sexual abuse in Portugal: A former playmate of the victim and her father will be connected to Braunschweig.

What a strange headline!
Is it merely a poor translation? Or is it yet another try by CB's defence to employ the witness contradiction (and worse) ploy which has been in use to taint testimony since the start of the trial.

Christian B: Have parents talked their children into abusive work?
Braunschweig. In 2016, the Maddie suspect went into hiding in Portugal. He was arrested in 2017. He is said to have masturbated in front of children. Or was everything completely different?

Christian B. in Braunschweig: Wurde Kindern Missbrauch eingeredet?

2016 tauchte der Maddie-Verdächtige in Portugal unter. 2017 wurde er verhaftet. Er soll vor Kindern masturbiert haben. Oder war alles doch ganz anders?

www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de

It's actually quite difficult to get children to lie about something imo, what do you think?

 

[Mex]

It's actually quite difficult to get children to lie about something imo, what do you think?

In the present circumstances I think because of the ages of the children and their lack of understanding of what was going on makes it a very difficult thing to quantify.
At the time at least one of the children knew something was amiss causing her to alert her father. At the time I think the adults may have been more alarmed than the children were. Therefore I think it is a bit unfair to expect the now teens to give a comprehensive account of what happened particularly as they now have a different perspective and it must be difficult for them to differentiate between then and now and to put it all into words.

Perhaps more reliance should have been put into knowledgeable questioning back in 2017 by child protection experts for the record. Maybe it was? But who could have foretold that no trial would happen till seven or eight years down the line.

Sad that the newspaper headline suggests collusion might be indicated; but the time lapse seems to make the suggestion a player despite CB's en flagrante arrest.
My opinion

 

[frank-cole]

In the present circumstances I think because of the ages of the children and their lack of understanding of what was going on makes it a very difficult thing to quantify.
At the time at least one of the children knew something was amiss causing her to alert her father. At the time I think the adults may have been more alarmed than the children were. Therefore I think it is a bit unfair to expect the now teens to give a comprehensive account of what happened particularly as they now have a different perspective and it must be difficult for them to differentiate between then and now and to put it all into words.

Perhaps more reliance should have been put into knowledgeable questioning back in 2017 by child protection experts for the record. Maybe it was? But who could have foretold that no trial would happen till seven or eight years down the line.

Sad that the newspaper headline suggests collusion might be indicated; but the time lapse seems to make the suggestion a player despite CB's en flagrante arrest.
My opinion

Was CB arrested in Portugal for this offence in 2017? That’s probably a better marker.

 

[Mex]

Was CB arrested in Portugal for this offence in 2017? That’s probably a better marker.

Yes, CB was arrested in the playground and taken into custody because there was an existing European Arrest Warrant out for him concerning other crimes.
He was extradited to Germany almost immediately.

Snip
CB was caught with his trousers down under a slide in San Bartolomeu de Messines, 40 miles from Praia da Luz, Portugal, where MM, three, went missing.

He was arrested in 2017 for carrying out a sex act in front of four youngsters.

The paedophile, 43, was extradited to Germany and is in jail on drug offences.

The new revelations about the German paedophile and his criminal past emerged in a half-hour investigation aired by Portuguese TV broadcaster RTP.

Mum claims Maddie suspect Christian Brueckner 'exposed himself' to her daughter

Brueckner was caught with his trousers down under a slide in San Bartolomeu de Messines, 40 miles from Praia da Luz, Portugal, where Madeleine McCann, three, went missing

www.mirror.co.uk

Whether the Portuguese police interviewed the children at the time is something which I've never seen mentioned. Statements were probably taken because in the process of this trial we know that files exist but either haven't been referred to, or if they have the reportage hasn't really dwelt on it.

 

[frank-cole]

I

Yes, CB was arrested in the playground and taken into custody because there was an existing European Arrest Warrant out for him concerning other crimes.
He was extradited to Germany almost immediately.

Snip
CB was caught with his trousers down under a slide in San Bartolomeu de Messines, 40 miles from Praia da Luz, Portugal, where MM, three, went missing.

He was arrested in 2017 for carrying out a sex act in front of four youngsters.

The paedophile, 43, was extradited to Germany and is in jail on drug offences.

The new revelations about the German paedophile and his criminal past emerged in a half-hour investigation aired by Portuguese TV broadcaster RTP.

Mum claims Maddie suspect Christian Brueckner 'exposed himself' to her daughter

Brueckner was caught with his trousers down under a slide in San Bartolomeu de Messines, 40 miles from Praia da Luz, Portugal, where Madeleine McCann, three, went missing

www.mirror.co.uk

Whether the Portuguese police interviewed the children at the time is something which I've never seen mentioned. Statements were probably taken because in the process of this trial we know that files exist but either haven't been referred to, or if they have the reportage hasn't really dwelt on it.

It will be interesting to see whether the court believes the children & the original arresting police - or whether they side with CB. A not guilty verdict in that case would certainly turn many heads.

 

[Davieson]

I

It will be interesting to see whether the court believes the children & the original arresting police - or whether they side with CB. A not guilty verdict in that case would certainly turn many heads.

I'm sure they'll interpret the evidence presented correctly and that correct decisions will be made, though it may be some time yet before we hear what they are.

 

[Mex]

I

It will be interesting to see whether the court believes the children & the original arresting police - or whether they side with CB. A not guilty verdict in that case would certainly turn many heads.

It is very difficult to fathom exactly what the thinking of the court is regarding this episode and surprisingly my interpretation is a negative one given the small information sample gleaned from the BZ press.

• August 5, 2024: The trial continues after a summer break. BKA chief profiler Harald Dern testifies. He talks about the similarities and differences between the rape of the 72-year-old American woman, for which B. was convicted, and the act against Hazel B. In addition, the court is again concerned with the latest alleged sexual abuse in Portugal: A former playmate of the victim and her father will be connected to Braunschweig.

Christian B.: Have parents talked their children into abusive work? In 2016, the Maddie suspect went into hiding in Portugal. He was arrested in 2017. He is said to have masturbated in front of children. Or was everything completely different?​

Braunschweig: Prozess gegen Christian B. – das ist bisher passiert

Braunschweigs Staatsanwaltschaft wirft dem Maddie-Verdächtigen Vergewaltigungen und sexuellen Missbrauch vor. Kurz und knapp: So läuft der Prozess.

www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de

There is something weird about the terms used (bearing in mind this is not a court transcript but merely journalistic licence).
The witness is rather more than a "playmate". She and her parent were present as witnesses as were the previous Portuguese witnesses
April 12, 2024: On the eighth day of the trial, an alleged victim has his say for the first time: (at which she was reduced to tears under questioning)
April 26, 2024: On the eleventh day of the trial, another witness from Portugal is heard.
Then there is the gap between testimonies.

It really never occurred to me that there would be any difficulty at trial with such a well documented case. I mean how often is it that a sex offender is arrested at the scene of the crime with his trousers round his ankles? Not often I'll wager.
But I can actually see exactly how he may walk from this one. And if that happens it will indeed give pause for serious thought and much turning of heads.
My opinion

 

[Mex]

I'm sure they'll interpret the evidence presented correctly and that correct decisions will be made, though it may be some time yet before we hear what they are.

I disagree with that assessment for the simple reason that I am less than impressed with the manner in which a woman who was subjected to hours of torture was reduced to tears under questioning. A state of distress to which despite her terror and pain her assailant never reduced her to. It took the questioning in a German court to do that.
The days of metaphorically demanding that a rape survivor holds up her knickers in open court are long gone! Just as well really, because hers were slashed from her body with a knife as a precursor to her ordeal.

 

[frank-cole]

I

I disagree with that assessment for the simple reason that I am less than impressed with the manner in which a woman who was subjected to hours of torture was reduced to tears under questioning. A state of distress to which despite her terror and pain her assailant never reduced her to. It took the questioning in a German court to do that.
The days of metaphorically demanding that a rape survivor holds up her knickers in open court are long gone! Just as well really, because hers were slashed from her body with a knife as a precursor to her ordeal.

I completely disagree with him too - I can’t fathom why anybody would try to float the idea that CB’s involvement in that crime wasn’t sinister. But then again, it’s the typical nature of such threads. I fully believe the children I don’t believe the paedophile. Who knows how much the judge has bought the defences game. Irrespective of judgement, only a very small group of people would carry-on as this was a case of the friendly neighbourhood paedophile who happened to be just urinating in a children’s part in front of children. That type of rhetoric is & will be, born out of MM case opinion. Some will want the prosecution to fail in the MM case - hence - cannot approvingly talk about the prosecution at any point beforehand.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

What I don’t understand is that if the paedophile was committing a crime in the park and this is a certainty, the prosecution will have no problem obtaining a guilty verdict. I don’t see why it needs to be discussed if it’s an open and shut case - the judge will find him guilty.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Some will want the prosecution to fail in the MM case

I agree it seems that way but don't really understand why. (Of course it should be evidence dependant.)

 

[UK Girl]

I agree it seems that way but don't really understand why. (Of course it should be evidence dependant.)

Thats the thing. Yes it should be evidence dependant and so far that seems to be lacking. Its ok to be massive supporter of the BKA but logically either side should accept any failings which in this trial there seems to be a lot of issues

 

[mrjitty]

Thats the thing. Yes it should be evidence dependant and so far that seems to be lacking. Its ok to be massive supporter of the BKA but logically either side should accept any failings which in this trial there seems to be a lot of issues

Yes. prosecutions are won and lost in germany every week.

we should wait for the verdict and judgement before getting out over skis!

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I agree it seems that way but don't really understand why. (Of course it should be evidence dependant.)

To explain, those who share my opinion don’t want to see the prosecution fail, we want see them prove their public statements.

In 2021 on the Australian podcast “They’ve taken her” HCW said that MM had been murdered and that CB was responsible. This is one of many similar examples of the prosecution’s spokesperson claiming that CB killed MM.

Making these claims and not charging CB for three to four years is very wrong IMO.

Making matters worse, the current trial for the five seperate offences provides an insight into the BKA’s investigation. Based on what’s been reported and the lifting of the arrest warrant, their evidence amounts to witness statements - there is very little hard evidence - forensics, video footage or photographs, emails, confessions. People, some of poor moral standing, making statements about the guy allegedly involved in the MM case.

In summary, I don’t want them to fail, I want them to back up their public statements and charge him for murdering MM. If they fail to do this, I cannot see why anyone would not be infuriated by what they’ve done.

If a charge doesn’t come and that would not be justice for MM, and after all the years of nonsense, that would be the worst possible outcome.

 

[Mex]

Thats the thing. Yes it should be evidence dependant and so far that seems to be lacking. Its ok to be massive supporter of the BKA but logically either side should accept any failings which in this trial there seems to be a lot of issues

Unfortunately it would appear that bird has already flown unless the judges have got a point of law entirely wrong when they decided that the evidence was not up to scratch.
Their decision covers all five indictments. Just a tad presumptive prior to all the evidence being heard, but there it is.

Snip

No longer an urgent suspicion of a crime​

CB.'s defence had previously applied for the arrest warrant to be lifted because, in their view, the arrest warrant could no longer be valid after the course of the evidence so far.
In fact, the criminal chamber followed this request at the beginning of the month because it saw no urgent suspicion of all the accusations.

Prosecutors speak of "serious concern"​

The public prosecutor's office justified the necessary replacement from its point of view with the fear that the current criminal chamber had already formed its opinion on the question of crime and guilt, although the taking of evidence had not been completed.
The prosecution spoke of a "serious concern" that the chamber had already committed itself to an "acquittal of evidence" and that the pending evidence could no longer have any significance for the judges' assessment.

With this view, the public prosecutor's office obviously did not convince the deputy judges in Braunschweig.

This decision was to be expected because it corresponds to the established case law of the Federal Court of Justice, said defence attorney FF.

The decision has been noted, there is nothing more to say, the public prosecutor's office said.

Prozess gegen Christian B. - Ablehnung der Richter scheitert

Nach der Aufhebung des Haftbefehls gegen den auch im Fall Maddie Verdächtigen wollten die Strafverfolger die Richter schnell austauschen. Die zuständige Vertretungskammer sieht das aber anders.

www.antenne.de

 

[Mex]

To explain, those who share my opinion don’t want to see the prosecution fail, we want see them prove their public statements.

In 2021 on the Australian podcast “They’ve taken her” HCW said that MM had been murdered and that CB was responsible. This is one of many similar examples of the prosecution’s spokesperson claiming that CB killed MM.

Making these claims and not charging CB for three to four years is very wrong IMO.

Making matters worse, the current trial for the five seperate offences provides an insight into the BKA’s investigation. Based on what’s been reported and the lifting of the arrest warrant, their evidence amounts to witness statements - there is very little hard evidence - forensics, video footage or photographs, emails, confessions. People, some of poor moral standing, making statements about the guy allegedly involved in the MM case.

In summary, I don’t want them to fail, I want them to back up their public statements and charge him for murdering MM. If they fail to do this, I cannot see why anyone would not be infuriated by what they’ve done.

If a charge doesn’t come and that would not be justice for MM, and after all the years of nonsense, that would be the worst possible outcome.

My understanding of what is happening to the trial process in the Braunschweig court amounts to zero but for the fact that as I have already indicated the judiciary were trying the wrong case and not the five they should have been concentrating on and judging.

Your post reinforces that thought. CB isn't on trial for that. Currently he is on trial because he is suspected of five serious criminal sex crimes.

For example why raise an Australian podcast which has nothing to do with the fact that prolific offender that he is CB is the main suspect of police investigators of three countries, the Policia Judiciaria (PJ), Scotland Yard (SY) and the Bundeskriminalamt (BKA) in a missing child case.

That case may be addressed in the fulness of time or not, but until then a blatant disservice is being carried out to justice by the unhealthy concentration on a case for which there are no indictments at the expense of five which are in progress.
Why is it impossible to deal with the cases in hand and put other cases, however celebrated, into the background where they belong at present.

 

[frank-cole]

I agree it seems that way but don't really understand why. (Of course it should be evidence dependant.)

It’s born out of MM case opinion - the tetchy issues with the prosecution have been around since the off - they aren’t new nor did they start recently - pattern. ‘Evidence dependent’ is the right way & I hope all evidence to be heard - however I think evidence expectation in the MM case will be extremely high, for the same reasons.

 

[frank-cole]

Y

My understanding of what is happening to the trial process in the Braunschweig court amounts to zero but for the fact that as I have already indicated the judiciary were trying the wrong case and not the five they should have been concentrating on and judging.

Your post reinforces that thought. CB isn't on trial for that. Currently he is on trial because he is suspected of five serious criminal sex crimes.

For example why raise an Australian podcast which has nothing to do with the fact that prolific offender that he is CB is the main suspect of police investigators of three countries, the Policia Judiciaria (PJ), Scotland Yard (SY) and the Bundeskriminalamt (BKA) in a missing child case.

That case may be addressed in the fulness of time or not, but until then a blatant disservice is being carried out to justice by the unhealthy concentration on a case for which there are no indictments at the expense of five which are in progress.
Why is it impossible to deal with the cases in hand and put other cases, however celebrated, into the background where they belong at present.

Yep - well said. The Australian podcast is just conspiracy gossip. Trying to muddy the waters during an active murder investigation & inviting renown trolls to speak on the case - is reprehensible in my view.

 

[Davieson]

I can't see any reason why the judges shouldn't carry out their function correctly and reach their conclusions based on all relevant information