Germany/Portugal - Christian Brueckner, 27 @ time of 1st crime (2004), charged with sexual assault crimes, Praia de Rocha, Portugal. #5

[RichardKimble]

If photo or video evidence existed which featured MM post her disappearance and which left no room for doubt that they were taken/filmed by CB, then yes of course I would assume him guilty of her murder.

But no such compelling evidence exists since, if it did, that's the trial we'd be following now instead of this one - and no amount of whataboutery can change that.

That wouldn't prove murder though.
In such a scenario he could have sold her to someone else.
There would need to some evidence of death by his hand.

I take your point but it would at least confirm his involvement. The 'no room for doubt' bit is crucial to my above response.

In any case, it's hardly worth getting into a discussion about it since we know this is not evidence the prosecution holds. Which I know is your position as much as it is mine. I like to deal with realities too.

Agreed it's meaning less on its own if such a thing exists, the question I believe raised because HCW ( remember him) said if they had a photo of video of MM and CB together they wouldn't have needed the appeal in 2020, some have taken that to mean they have an image of a deceased MM.Sheesh this trial hasn't even been completed yet.

 

[UK Girl]

Justice for the victims , this isn’t a witch hunt as some people believe.
As @Mex just said it’s a reflection of how worried they are that he could possibly walk . As a side note ,IF CB has been found in possession of photographic or video evidence of MM post May 3rd I’d be interested to know what doubters of his innocence think about it’s potential relevance ?

whether its a witch hunt or not..you need solid evidence for a conviction which seems to be the problem since the beginning of the trial. Its ok the prosecutor complaining about EVERYTHING but it was her job to prove the charges. IMO she has not really done that and thats on her and not the Judge or the media.

 

[Mex]

If its an active investigation, I'm surprised we've been allowed to know anything about it.

I have been boringly constant in my criticism of the conflation of MM's disappearance throughout each and every aspect of this trial.

The original charge sheet contained five charges which had waited a long time to be heard in court. MM is mossing and the prime suspect in her disappearance is CB. That is it.
Short of the fact that MM's investigation was the catalyst to enabling

• evidence on other crimes to be discovered
• enabling DM the satisfaction of seeing her rapist convicted
• enabling the trial of a further five serious offences

hers was not the subject of this trial since: there wasn't even an indictment.

The chamber allowed the path for such evidence to be heard (and indeed judged) should FF require grounds for appeal - there he has it
My opinion

 

[Davieson]

I find this all very interesting.
These people are professional prosecutors and must have thought their case a strong one. It was going to be so easy. Bundle a few cases together and Bobs your uncle. Get him put away for a good few year, possibly for ever and the MM case can be quietly put on the back burner and never need come to court. Guilty in the eyes of those who don't look too closely. Everyone happy, except CB, of course

Doesn't seem to be happening that way which is maybe why she threw the hissy fit in court, blaming everyone but herself

 

[RichardKimble]

I find this all very interesting.
These people are professional prosecutors and must have thought their case a strong one. It was going to be so easy. Bundle a few cases together and Bobs your uncle. Get him put away for a good few year, possibly for ever and the MM case can be quietly put on the back burner and never need come to court. Guilty in the eyes of those who don't look too closely. Everyone happy, except CB, of course

Doesn't seem to be happening that way which is maybe why she threw the hissy fit in court, blaming everyone but herself

In the case of the alleged assault on a teenager, UL said that MS didn't see the assault on tape, therefore not backing up HeB, so why was it brought to court?

Christian B: Staatsanwältin greift im Plädoyer massiv Richter an

Prozesstag 36 im Landgericht Braunschweig: Die Anklägerin Ute Lindemann will den Maddie-Verdächtigen in Haft plus Sicherungsverwahrung sehen. Für den Fall eines Freispruchs kündigt sie bereits jetzt Revision zum BGH an.

www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de

 

[misty48]

In the case of the alleged assault on a teenager, UL said that MS didn't see the assault on tape, therefore not backing up HeB, so why was it brought to court?

Christian B: Staatsanwältin greift im Plädoyer massiv Richter an

Prozesstag 36 im Landgericht Braunschweig: Die Anklägerin Ute Lindemann will den Maddie-Verdächtigen in Haft plus Sicherungsverwahrung sehen. Für den Fall eines Freispruchs kündigt sie bereits jetzt Revision zum BGH an.

www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de

MT confirmed in court that CB had confessed to committing a similar crime to the one charged, whilst they were in jail together in 2006. That evidence corroborated at least some of what HeB & MS allegedly saw on the missing videos.

Madeleine McCann suspect 'snuck naked into holiday flat while teen girls slept'

A friend of Christian Brueckner told an Austrian court that the 47-year-old German paedophile had broken into a holiday flat wearing nothing while three teen girls were inside

www.mirror.co.uk

*snipped*.
Tatschl said Brueckner confessed while they were in prison together to holding a teenage girl hostage at his Praia da Luz home. “He told me the girl was aged 14 or 15. He kept her tied to a post for days. I don’t know if she escaped or if he let her go. I was shocked.”

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Regarding these writing, who has actually seen them and know what they contain ?

GA

 

[RichardKimble]

MT confirmed in court that CB had confessed to committing a similar crime to the one charged, whilst they were in jail together in 2006. That evidence corroborated at least some of what HeB & MS allegedly saw on the missing videos.

Madeleine McCann suspect 'snuck naked into holiday flat while teen girls slept'

A friend of Christian Brueckner told an Austrian court that the 47-year-old German paedophile had broken into a holiday flat wearing nothing while three teen girls were inside

www.mirror.co.uk

*snipped*.
Tatschl said Brueckner confessed while they were in prison together to holding a teenage girl hostage at his Praia da Luz home. “He told me the girl was aged 14 or 15. He kept her tied to a post for days. I don’t know if she escaped or if he let her go. I was shocked.”

Yet the prosecutor in summing is reported to have said.


Lindemann, on the other hand, stated that the testimony of the witness Manfred S., who does not want to have recognized any clear sexual acts in the video, was not sufficient for a conviction.

Christian B: Staatsanwältin greift im Plädoyer massiv Richter an

Prozesstag 36 im Landgericht Braunschweig: Die Anklägerin Ute Lindemann will den Maddie-Verdächtigen in Haft plus Sicherungsverwahrung sehen. Für den Fall eines Freispruchs kündigt sie bereits jetzt Revision zum BGH an.

www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de

 

[Davieson]

In the case of the alleged assault on a teenager, UL said that MS didn't see the assault on tape, therefore not backing up HeB, so why was it brought to court?

Christian B: Staatsanwältin greift im Plädoyer massiv Richter an

Prozesstag 36 im Landgericht Braunschweig: Die Anklägerin Ute Lindemann will den Maddie-Verdächtigen in Haft plus Sicherungsverwahrung sehen. Für den Fall eines Freispruchs kündigt sie bereits jetzt Revision zum BGH an.

www.braunschweiger-zeitung.de

Part of the general vilification process.
Whether the allegation is true or false, it got a public airing, which was probably the sole intention and those who wish to will be convinced and believe that he got off that charge on a legal technicality, rather than it being something that should never have been brought before the court

 

[mrjitty]

Yes doubters of his guilt , if he was found in possession of photo or evidence of MM what would your stance be ?

Personally I believe if investigators had this evidence he would have been charged long ago.

 

[JB1510]

Not necessarily if he is not visible in it, and/or if they can not determine the origin even though it is in his possession.My point being after everything we have heard so far in terms of coincidences surrounding CB would this be another one ?

Or would it be enough to confirm he was indeed the sadistic home invader who likes to talk about , write about and act out crimes and fantasies against women and children . One of the highlighted aspects of the current trial is video evidence and its provenance. Be it the viewed tapes of HeB and MS which led to the conviction of the assault on DM and the statement from HaB saying her brutal attack was filmed by her assailant.No video or photographic evidence has been recovered.

IF CB is found in possession of video or photo evidence of MM the odds of all the “coincidences “ heard so far plus footage of MM post May 3rd imo makes it BARD and confirms the charges he is currently under.

Or you treat everything singly and it’s just coincidence and he got it
off the dark web.

These are extremely cold cases committed in another country with an accused who has had since 2013 at the latest to cover his tracks, who went to the creepiest lengths to think no one would be prepared to exhume his dead dog but he could if he needed to.

We’ve all got our opinions I just hope closure comes soon.

 

[RichardKimble]

Why not concentrate on the knowns ,not the unknowns ,he is currently awaiting the verdict on two counts of rape and 2 child related offences not some mystical might have image of a dead child.

 

[JB1510]

Why not concentrate on the knowns ,not the unknowns ,he is currently awaiting the verdict on two counts of rape and 2 child related offences not some mystical might have image of a dead child.

Isolate them all individually then instead of treating them as
a collective sequence of events .Two things that have come out so far in the current trial written by CB’s own hand.

CB writings detailing his fantasies matching the black clad rapist and choice of words used in the brutal assault of HaB and CB photographed in the same block weeks earlier .

CB letter asking his girlfriend to rid the Yellow House of video and video recording equipment.

Video evidence viewed by HB and MS which led to the investigation/conviction of CB in the DM case initiated by the BKA and then matched to a cold case in the PJ files.The concealment of CSA hidden beneath the body of his dead dog to deter anybody potentially finding but giving CB the opportunity if needed to exhume his own dog.

 

[Davieson]

Isolate them all individually then instead of treating them as
a collective sequence of events .Two things that have come out so far in the current trial written by CB’s own hand.

CB writings detailing his fantasies matching the black clad rapist and choice of words used in the brutal assault of HaB and CB photographed in the same block weeks earlier .

CB letter asking his girlfriend to rid the Yellow House of video and video recording equipment.

Video evidence viewed by HB and MS which led to the investigation/conviction of CB in the DM case initiated by the BKA and then matched to a cold case in the PJ files.The concealment of CSA hidden beneath the body of his dead dog to deter anybody potentially finding but giving CB the opportunity if needed to exhume his own dog.

Such evidence may have been put forward.
It is the role of the judge to determine the reliability of these claims

 

[mrjitty]

Not necessarily if he is not visible in it, and/or if they can not determine the origin even though it is in his possession.My point being after everything we have heard so far in terms of coincidences surrounding CB would this be another one ?

Or would it be enough to confirm he was indeed the sadistic home invader who likes to talk about , write about and act out crimes and fantasies against women and children . One of the highlighted aspects of the current trial is video evidence and its provenance. Be it the viewed tapes of HeB and MS which led to the conviction of the assault on DM and the statement from HaB saying her brutal attack was filmed by her assailant.No video or photographic evidence has been recovered.

IF CB is found in possession of video or photo evidence of MM the odds of all the “coincidences “ heard so far plus footage of MM post May 3rd imo makes it BARD and confirms the charges he is currently under.

Or you treat everything singly and it’s just coincidence and he got it
off the dark web.

These are extremely cold cases committed in another country with an accused who has had since 2013 at the latest to cover his tracks, who went to the creepiest lengths to think no one would be prepared to exhume his dead dog but he could if he needed to.

We’ve all got our opinions I just hope closure comes soon.

Well sure - you can create such a hypothetical, but to my mind if he had such a photo there would be likely enough to charge - though they might wait to try to find the body now they had the correct guy. But after 5 or 6 years of investigation, that thesis is hard to maintain IMO

Either they have some good evidence to charge as HCW claimed originally, or they do not.

So I lean towards them not having it, because after so many years, we have not seen charges

MOO

 

[JB1510]

Well sure - you can create such a hypothetical, but to my mind if he had such a photo there would be likely enough to charge - though they might wait to try to find the body now they had the correct guy. But after 5 or 6 years of investigation, that thesis is hard to maintain IMO

Either they have some good evidence to charge as HCW claimed originally, or they do not.

So I lean towards them not having it, because after so many years, we have not seen charges

MOO

I understand your position but singly on its own it could be argued that he wasn’t the origin of the picture or video and that he was sent it or found it on the dark web .My position is taking the collective evidence that the prosecution insist that he films his assaults confirmed by HaB , MS and HeB with the latter responsible for a successful cold case conviction in the brutal assault of DM whom was left with a broken jaw.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Well sure - you can create such a hypothetical, but to my mind if he had such a photo there would be likely enough to charge - though they might wait to try to find the body now they had the correct guy. But after 5 or 6 years of investigation, that thesis is hard to maintain IMO

Either they have some good evidence to charge as HCW claimed originally, or they do not.

So I lean towards them not having it, because after so many years, we have not seen charges

MOO

How could the prosecutors take the crime of the young German girl (one witness no physical evidence) to trial ahead of the MM crime of a photo or video was found in the possession of CB?

 

[RichardKimble]

How could the prosecutors take the crime of the young German girl (one witness no physical evidence) to trial ahead of the MM crime of a photo or video was found in the possession of CB?

They wouldn't, imo.let's wait for the verdicts and the fall out after that which no doubt there will be irrespective of which way they go.

 

[RichardKimble]

Isolate them all individually then instead of treating them as
a collective sequence of events .Two things that have come out so far in the current trial written by CB’s own hand.

CB writings detailing his fantasies matching the black clad rapist and choice of words used in the brutal assault of HaB and CB photographed in the same block weeks earlier .

CB letter asking his girlfriend to rid the Yellow House of video and video recording equipment.

Video evidence viewed by HB and MS which led to the investigation/conviction of CB in the DM case initiated by the BKA and then matched to a cold case in the PJ files.The concealment of CSA hidden beneath the body of his dead dog to deter anybody potentially finding but giving CB the opportunity if needed to exhume his own dog.

Was this photo brought to court, sketchy the reporting maybe but no mention was made of it.

 

[JB1510]

Was this photo brought to court, sketchy the reporting maybe but no mention was made of it.

Why would it ? The MM case is separate.