Gilgo Beach 4 Only (GB4)

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continued from post 185

4.) The homicidal john theory
The homicidal john theory is based on the idea, the unsub would call the victims, make out with them and kills them on the date. The list of reasons, why this is impossible is long enough to fill an encyclopedia, so I limit this to the most important ones:

a.) Maureen Brainard-Barnes had reached NYC that morning coming from Norwich. She had rented a room in the hotel in 46th street for that day to meet with clients. It is important to keep in mind, MBB didn't prostitute herself to feed a drug habit or something. What drove her to do it was pure need to keep a roof over her child's head. Means, she would do it to get a certain amount of money, not to gain unlimited money to feed an unlimited habit of drug abuse.
So she did, what she did and after it was done, she went for the bus terminal at the Port Authority from where she could get a bus to change at the transit probably into a train going to Norwich. But, according to what she said to friends, she was robbed. She asked those friends whether they could give her a ride but those friends couldn't. Which makes them either not the best of all friends or they considered the situation as uncritical. That makes me think, the robber didn't get all of Maureen's money. She had met with clients all over the day, she had some hundred dollars at least. Now, who would carry that kind of money in the wallet? In a city like NYC? Reasonable people put $50 or what they need in the purse and the rest hidden on the person. So all seems to indicate, she had still money for the way home. There was no need for another quick trick. And, as Maureen told those friends, all she wanted was going home. So whoever called, I seriously doubt, he could get a date with her that night anymore. So no homicidal john in that case. The only one, who could get to her was someone physically at that bus terminal. And such a location allows only two approaches: Ruse to lure here to a better fitting location or surprising blitz-attack. Only there's a catch: How would a serial killer know, there is a potential victim that night at that bus terminal? Why would he hunt there while not far away is an area full of clubs and hour hotels? That indicates, she was no random victim. The only way, this would work is, if he has chosen Maureen long before and stalked her. If he knew where she was.

b.) The next one is Melissa Barthelmy. She got calls, she had also earlier meetings with clients, a business day as usual. But at some point, she is seen near to the apartment, she lived in with her pimp/bf, waiting for someone who is supposed to bring her to another client. That apartment is in the Bronx. And from that point on, she is missing.
That means, if this john or client would be the hypothetical homicidal john, he would have changed his hunting method over the last two years entirely. Which is unlikely since for medium to high organized offenders the hunt is part of the ritual. Thus a change in the hunting method would have also changed what he would get out of his game. Compare that to what I wrote in 3. about him. He would have changed from the self-perception of a dark hunter on a mission in the night to the self-perception of kind of a trapper or, lets say it a mere homicidal john. It would take from the game, what makes it worth to play it in the first place.
Of course, one can argue, he did so because he is already spiraling down. But the time distance of two years between Maureen and Melissa is too long to support that. An SK in the spiraling phase would have a much higher kill frequency. Look at Bundy or Dahmer for comparison.
So, by all means, he would have stuck with being a stalker, because that is what gives him the first taste of power over his victim. And it would be so easy. He only needed to wait till she comes back and snatch her. It would be dark, the streets would be empty. It would take only a few minutes. Nobody would notice. How opposite to the homicidal john, who let his victims bring to him. Even he does the driving himself, neighbors talk, and after all this media attention, there would be one, coming forward and say: Look at this neighbor, he has all the times prostitutes there, I saw them coming but not going and one, two or three or four looked like those girls from the news.

c.) Megan Waterman
First thing to see here is, she visited LI about twice a month to conduct business with her LI customers. So she was regularly there, it was a pattern. The same as it was a pattern to be the rest of the month in NYC and I somehow doubt, Akeem Cruz allowed her to not work in that time.
So, we have here the weird thing with, the john didn't allow her to take a phone with her. The funny part is, we have not even a john in this case. Nobody mentions actually a john! All we know is, she wandered out of the hotel. Given that she had according to her mother a sweet tooth, and given, that she allegedly also smoked and since most hotels have no cigarette vending machines anymore and candy costs there an arm and a leg ... well, there is that convenience store really nearby. The only problem, one has to cross that empty slot. And it was dark, not many people on the streets anymore.
The john outside of the hotel is mere assumption. But the empty spot is a fact. And that is the perfect place to ambush a victim, especially if the offender knows the patterns because he had stalked her for a while. And once more, while the situation would be impossible for a hypothetical homicidal john, due to his neighbors, due to the fact, someone could see the car, due to the high risk (one could say nada and then there would be a witness out there, who could later come forward), the situation is perfect for a stalker type.

d.) Amber Lynn Costello
As mentioned above, she is the tallest of all four victims. So our unsub obviously gained more self-esteem as killer and is now sure, he cas also take taller victims, he would perceive as also stronger. That indicates, he has honed his abilities. What abilities? Using a phone? Not likely. That ability is nothing, that would cause an increase in self-esteem. So we talk about hunting abilities here, specifically the ability to overwhelm the victim fast and without giving her a chance to cause a ruckus.
Now we're at this $1500 client. Amber Lynn Costello is one of the two victims who had definitively a client that night. Of course, an in the meantime experienced SK would drag attention by making $1500 offers and he would call a number of times to make sure, he can be later caught by tower dump ... NOT. Aside of all the other problems like neighbors, potential victims, the possibility one of his targets denies to visit him, this would have additional risks. Tower dumps for example. You don't get name and address when the john calls from a burner, but what you can get is, where the burner was used. So that would be the first thing, LE checks. And they came up with nothing. How can that be? Because they found those locations and obviously also some of the johns (for example the police officers) and it didn't pan out. And if LE dismisses someone as suspect, they don't publish the names in the media.
But that means, those burners didn't lead to any viable suspects. So aside of the other problems, a homicidal john would face, he also appears to have maged to call without calling. Or did he maybe not call at all? Because when Amber returned from that client, she would have been in the same situation as Melissa Barthelmy. Out in a dark empty street, about to go in the house where she lived. Optimal for a stalker and blitz-attacker. Do me a favor and compare that to Watts' blitz-attacks. That is how it works

So, four situations optimal for a stalker and a blitz-attacker and pretty lousy or entirely impossible for a homicidal john. Okam's razor has a pretty clear answer to that.

Continued in next post ...
 
Continued from post 190

5.) A local?

I can't see any reason, why LISK has to be a local of Oak Beach or any other nearby community. The allegedly needed local knowledge can be easily obtained during temporary presence (I bet when the houses in Oak Beach were built, not only white contractors worked on them), GPS apps in smart phones and/or Google maps.
However, I can see a lot of reasons, why he isn't a local.

a.) SKs who build multi-victim dump sites, don't do that in he vicinity of their homes. There are some low organized SKs who keep bodies right at home, for example Sowell or Franklin, but medium to high organized plus multi-victim dump site means, he lives miles away. And it's damn hard to say, how many miles. Corll for example had dump sites about 17 and a little over 20 miles away from his house (which was also the kill site). That is the shortest distance, I remember in any case. Bundy is record holder, in one case, the dump site was 120 miles away (not counting the later Utah and Colorado murders, in which he didn't form clustered dump sites anymore). So, by all means, he lives at least 16 miles away, probably more.

b.) LISK obviously never heard of the ruckus, SG caused in Oak Beach. At least three witnesses noticed something was wrong, naybe more (Coletti, Brennan and Canning). So it's not very likely, there was no talk at all. And that talk didn't reach LISK. He had no idea that something had happened that would have pulled LE's attention to the vicinity of his little trophy yard. And thus, he dropped two more there. Think about it. You are a serial killer, you park your victims in a clustered dump site. That means, you want to keep them. If you would know, police will eventually look for this other girl, would you tuck in two more in that place or would you look for a new place and maybe transport also the two who are already there to the new safer place? But LISK obviously hadn't that option because he is not local and the chitchat missed him.

c.) Maureen conducted her business in NYC, not LI. Melissa deposited earlier that day money in a bankomat in NYC, Megan was more than half of her time in NYC, not LI and there is in fact nothing actually indicating, the client she had that night was from LI. That leaves us with Amber. She is the only one who actually lived in LI. But near enough to conduct business in NYC as in LI. So three of the victims had the center of their "business activities" in NYC, not LI. And why not? Joel Rifkin has already demonstrated, an SK can pick up victims in NYC and drop them alo in LI. Nothing miraculous in that. And opposite to Rifkin's time, an SK today would have a problem to find usable locations. Most areas have cams today. There are not so many usable spots left around NYC. Manorville would be an alternative ... oh wait, there is this other guy. So, with basically just two fitting areas left, the chance for each SK in the wider surroundings of New York, to hit the beaches of LI, is 50%. Given the population size, we can assume, there are average four to six SKs active in that area plus the occasional Long-Haul-SK. But okay, not all of them are on the same level as far as it comes to organization. So, under these conditions, if three victims certainly have the center of their business in NYC and one maybe too, where would you look for the killer? According to Okam's razor in NYC and not in LI. The only thing, that makes LI interesting, and for sure not the island part, is the generous supply with quiet places where one can kill in all peace without nosey neighbors.

I think, this is good enough. And don't believe, this is all I have to support that profile, I cut out because this is long anyway. But it should make clear, why I don't believe in a homicidal john, in any conspiracy theories (beyond SCPD being disorganized and in way over their head with an SK case).
Which brings me to Foreigner's questions:

Do I think, I know better than LE what happened? Well, I was better than LE the last few times and in this case not one idea from LE proved as profitable. So I can't be worse than zero, it's technically impossible and thus, as mathematics prove, each and everyone here is better in that than SCPD. I mean, even a wrong idea is better than no idea.
And no, I have no access to police documents in this case and especially no, I have no access to evidence/results, police has. I mean, there isn't even any evidence they have any results, so ... how would anybody have access to something that probably doesn't even exist?
And considering that, what LE believes is in this case is irrelevant till they can make anything stick. I don't peddle in beliefs, that's surely not, why I put so much work in cases like this one.
And now you can do what you want, but please, without me.
 
Peter is this all about my outbreak?

Fierce is the fight but remember your ideas mean value to people. Especially to me whether I agree or not.

Just spare a minute and try to understand your counterpart.

Take CPH's call to MG.

Two pimps knock on your door and say "Dude we lost our bottom *****, would you give a call to her mom?"

What do you say, yes?

No one in the right mind would do it. There's more the Doc must explain to come clean and I won't do that for him.

If I hurt your feelings, I apologize. Just stay and keep knocking down every theory. Bright side if we generate sufficient number of them and you chalking them off one by one, we might get the *advertiser censored* on the stand before SCPD does.
 
I present myself here as nothing ... so cut it. I offer a last attempt to make the problems in this case clear. I will finish that and after that point, you can do here the raindance, shamanism, one-legged weight-lifting games or whatever pleases you. I went on Yahoo through the mill three times, I am just tired of it. And aside, I am more interested in solving cases than in discussing impossible theories and skirt around some serious biases. However, if you want my knowledge and experience, you should by now know where to find me even if I don't post in the LISK threads anymore.

Wasn't trying to offend you, simply offering a suggestion.
 
This is from a forum

qt
I used to work for a phone service provider, so here's some stuff to keep in mind:

1. Yeah, if you're doing shady stuff, never use that phone for anything else. Records are kept indefinitely.
uqt

More here
[ame="http://www.zoklet.net/bbs/showthread.php?t=160689"]How to get/make a burner phone? - Zoklet.net[/ame]
 
The New York Post reported that one of the two men who’ve been deemed persons of interest in the case is a former New York police officer who was released from the force in the 1990s for soliciting prostitutes while on patrol.

The other was stripped of his duties as a police officer several years ago, but continues to hold a desk job with the NYPD. He is unable to make arrests or respond to emergencies.


I heard today on news radio that a NYPD officer from Staten Island was arrested. His name sounded like "Rogan". I missed part of the report but I think domestic abuse was mentioned. Like I said, I missed part of the report and haven't had a chance to check it out.

I just wonder if there could be any connection to officers from SI that have been mentioned in the previous posts.
 
Interesting profile Peter, thankyou :)
I think your stalker theory is definitely possible.
Maybe the 'homicidal john' theory has thrown us off...
what has stumped me is how despite all the evidence available to them LE still seem to have no viable leads.
Even though they would have been able to obtain phone records and particularly in the voice recordings from the killer's calls to Melissa's sister. So they probably were able to identify who some of the johns are and probably have interviewed as many as they could. and yet....nothing...maybe it's because these johns all checked out as being legit/not suspects....
Which leaves the stalker theory...
What if instead of a blitz attack he happens to be (or is posing as) LE of some kind and approached these women from within his vehicle - this could have had the dual effect of surprise and scaring the women - they would probably be scared of being in trouble or arrest and also shocked / surprised that they were being followed. This could cause them to momentarily drop their defense - guard long enough for him to overpower them and abduct them.
What are your thoughts?
 
Is there any chance in getting some sort of list of known facts regarding this case? For newbies like me, trying to sift through all of the information is a bit overwhelming, would be great if it was more consolidated.
 
Is there any chance in getting some sort of list of known facts regarding this case? For newbies like me, trying to sift through all of the information is a bit overwhelming, would be great if it was more consolidated.

On youtube. Documentary called Americas serial killer true story, another called Bodies on the Beach, and 48 hours aired two shows that can be found on youtube.
 
Interesting profile Peter, thankyou :)
I think your stalker theory is definitely possible.
Maybe the 'homicidal john' theory has thrown us off...
what has stumped me is how despite all the evidence available to them LE still seem to have no viable leads.
Even though they would have been able to obtain phone records and particularly in the voice recordings from the killer's calls to Melissa's sister. So they probably were able to identify who some of the johns are and probably have interviewed as many as they could. and yet....nothing...maybe it's because these johns all checked out as being legit/not suspects....
Which leaves the stalker theory...
What if instead of a blitz attack he happens to be (or is posing as) LE of some kind and approached these women from within his vehicle - this could have had the dual effect of surprise and scaring the women - they would probably be scared of being in trouble or arrest and also shocked / surprised that they were being followed. This could cause them to momentarily drop their defense - guard long enough for him to overpower them and abduct them.
What are your thoughts?

I've had the same thought that maybe this guy is posing as someone long enough to get these girls to be unsuspecting. I for some reason keep thinking a cab driver. Nothing to base that of off really other then the fact a few of these girls would have been on their way home, or walking somewhere. How easy it would be to get a women in a rigged car if they thought you were a cab driver. To me him acting as a cop would be to risky. But that is just IMO.
 
Bumping this up a bit. Did some googledorking on the dog Blue and came up with this. Interesting part is “There was some burlap, and most of the skeleton was there.”

Most? I would assume JM (don't want people to search his name and have this show up) would know a lot more about the remains then what was released to the media outlets. To use a word like 'most' leads me to think he specifically noticed missing things (parts). Could mean some were scattered a bit by animals and not seen on initial discovery. This would be MB.

Thoughts?

http://www.woofipedia.com/articles/true-crime-k-9s-blue
 
Bumping this up a bit. Did some googledorking on the dog Blue and came up with this. Interesting part is “There was some burlap, and most of the skeleton was there.”

Most? I would assume JM (don't want people to search his name and have this show up) would know a lot more about the remains then what was released to the media outlets. To use a word like 'most' leads me to think he specifically noticed missing things (parts). Could mean some were scattered a bit by animals and not seen on initial discovery. This would be MB.

Thoughts?

http://www.woofipedia.com/articles/true-crime-k-9s-blue

Great find. I believe that MBB's aunt (?) said something on a podcast about her niece's body not being intact. I wonder if this is something that the police are keeping close to the vest.
 
Going further out on a speculative limb, this information (if true) would make the LISK a dismemberer and a likely trophy collector. This would put him into a whole other category and make a link between the GB4 and the other Ocean Parkway remains much more definitive.
 
Great find. I believe that MBB's aunt (?) said something on a podcast about her niece's body not being intact. I wonder if this is something that the police are keeping close to the vest.

MW's aunt said something about MW not being intact. Not sure if MBB's aunt said something as well but I do know that MW's said something.
I can't remember if these was proven to be true or not.

If I remember right MB's mother also said something to this effect as well but then no one could ever find the link or it was cut out or something like that. Not sure.
 
MW's aunt said something about MW not being intact. Not sure if MBB's aunt said something as well but I do know that MW's said something.
I can't remember if these was proven to be true or not.

If I remember right MB's mother also said something to this effect as well but then no one could ever find the link or it was cut out or something like that. Not sure.

Thanks, I probably had them mixed up.
 

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