Gilgo Beach 4 Only (GB4)

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There are two small plane airports on the island. Was LISK not living on LI but a traveler to LI, became familiar with the desolate stretch from the air? What could he see from the air? Small planes can fly low in these areas.
 
regarding the burlap bags, why hasnt anyone traced back where the bags were purchased?
what is really going on with this case, it seems like Suffolk county isnt doing anything.
 
There will be another radio show tomorrow evening. As for a "hub spot", you're correct. We have so many threads already. You just have to seek out the ones that suit your questions. ;)

I thank you for all your work here. We would be a whole other forum altogether if not for folks like you, Bessie.


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I really hope the series will bring justice to all these women and their families. I also hope some women in the trade will get themselves off the streets. Mighty dangerous. I spend time worrying about young vulnerable girls I don't know. So sad.


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Does anyone know the main means of transportation for the ladies of LISK? ie private car, cab, bus. I delt with a serial killings in the late 70s in Lubbock Tx. We made the case by the means of transportation. ty Brownh20navy
 
Does anyone know the main means of transportation for the ladies of LISK? ie private car, cab, bus. I delt with a serial killings in the late 70s in Lubbock Tx. We made the case by the means of transportation. ty Brownh20navy

:welcome3: and Brownh20navy, and thank you for joining and for your bold and valuable first comment. No trace of cars says something I think, about the intent of the investigation from the onset. Nobody threw anybody under bus trying to figure out how if these women didn't have wings, then how they made out there.
 
This is slack but I am juggling work and just right now DO NOT HAVE the time to ask whether the following has been considered.... I wanted others to be made aware and
so it can be discarded. If it is any help I am a former policeman in Australia (in my early years after finishing a business degree) left and did psychology and sociology at uni and do not work in that field. I was rumenating on the phone stuff with the GB4 and also been thinking that this guy would surely have been with other women. It would not be unfair to think that he had slept with other workers that were not killed. Starting in June of 2007 under the assumption that the common denominator being burlap among other things, and that this is where his killing began or shifted from another place to begin {and in this instance isolate from the other cases}- it would not be hard to want to consider how the cell phone issue occurred and became a common factor. Reflecting back on the possibility that he slept or associated with other sex workers - I tried to peel back some of the things that would allow this to happen. Being trustful of someone, (and let's assume money was involved - and sex workers are street smart which most of the time they are) comes from a place of trust(forget the desperation that drug abuse brings and consider to what limit do women that ALWAYS take their phones - not do so). This guy may have had several dates with victims and non victims alike. Some men do genuinely just want to chat out of loneliness. If a man can gain the trust of a street smart woman - what would he have to do - who would he have to be so they would let their guard down. Most people expect an immediate noticeable monster and (again not knowing what the police did and didn't investigate in this period regarding the phones and what specifics were indeed noted) many women could have slept or talked with someone who "on the outside" appeared an extremely nice or lonely or sad guy. Because of the stigma of sex workers, the issue is having access to those same sex workers from back at the time and try and detail any anomalies with their clients. And the first place I would be heading would be " did you have any real nice guys you met in that period" - follow the track of this person willing to spend enough time to make these women trust him. Softness, sadness, and even not requesting sex all endear people if it appears genuine on several occasions (if the client is also generous with his money and doesn't make it too much of an issue of it, combined with the abovementioned} there may be ample legitimacy in why these mobiles came into play the way they did. If this is the case, detectives have lost surely a large amount of sex workers that they could have followed up with queries with and are no longer alive. He sounds calculating and mechanical so grooming is not to be discarded and the key is I am sure many women slept with him (or chatted for money) that do not even know he was gauging their suitability. July 2007, July 2009, June 2010, Sept 2010, just mathematically looks wrong. He either left town, was incarcerated, had family commitments or he killed in between and these bodies were not found - it does however, lend itself to a grooming process where I find the shift of the disappearances of the 3rd and 4th girl relatively close to each other and yet the last falls outside of his normal abduction period. Of equal note is that the 3rd and 4th girls disappeared 5 and 3 months before these bodies were found. If this guy is calculating, he either took pleasure in the ritual like a heroin user enjoys the ritual of fixing up before injection, I think he is playing games. I do not necessarily concur that any of the other killings on long island are related to this, but I do believe he has killed and placed bodies in several fashions where he keeps collections. The number four may be coincedental. It may be because the four had something in common or said something different or made him react a different way, and any other bodies that are lying elsewhere as a part of a collection would have particular traits to other victims which puts them aside to another collection. If the girls hadn't been found in Dec 2010, I am sure that more would be there because he would continually be wanting to add to this particular collection. The disconcerting thing is as a collector there may well be several pots of collectables all around the United States. Looking at all Craigslist communications would help with extended insight but not all data is kept for extended periods. There is a link there but as stated - it goes back to the first girl that went missing of the four that were found and it is only speculation that it was his first and as mentioned by a forensic psychologist he would have been learning if it was, and at the point where he was most likely to make a mistake. My greatest concern obviously is it wasn't his first, and as such may have had the art and his technique developed by this point in time. We cannot underestimate the periods of time people will drag things out for the extended enjoyment. If this has been discussed I truly apologise for the laziness.

Welcome to Ws. mcjimick thanks for that amazingly insightful post!
Many of the things you stated really hit the tail on the donkey for me, but what i found particularly intriguing is this idea
rbbm.
I do not necessarily concur that any of the other killings on long island are related to this, but I do believe he has killed and placed bodies in several fashions where he keeps collections. The number four may be coincedental. It may be because the four had something in common or said something different or made him react a different way, and any other bodies that are lying elsewhere as a part of a collection would have particular traits to other victims which puts them aside to another collection. If the girls hadn't been found in Dec 2010, I am sure that more would be there because he would continually be wanting to add to this particular collection. The disconcerting thing is as a collector there may well be several pots of collectables all around the United States.
 
About the burlap bags, a couple of theories. Nursery plants used to come in them years ago, wrapped around the ball of a tree at times. It was never revealed if the bags has any ID on them, meaning from a commercial bulk item although a paste-on label can be removed. Clams often were sold in burlap bags at the local LI docks. They are also used at times to protect new plantings from wind or frost damage.

The bags also do not need to be new. They store well in a dry garage or shed for many years. I recall my dad having some around when I was a kid. Bags left out in the elements will break down over the years. Animals may have torn through them, I doubt anything forensic was obtained from them.
 
Having grown up on a farm, I know that different animal feed used to come in burlap bags. I've also seen them in restaurant kitchens with like onions or potatoes in them.
 
Hello All

I'm curious as to the Timeout dolls mentioned on the Darkminds episode that aired wayback when I found it to be interesting and though for sure some clues would be gathered from them but it seems after it was mentioned it was never brought up again no one wrote about it or seems to have investigated them. However it seems like I cant even find a picture of them at the memorial sites online anymore. I feel like it was a big part of it but was just never talked about again!?
 
Hello All

I'm curious as to the Timeout dolls mentioned on the Darkminds episode that aired wayback when I found it to be interesting and though for sure some clues would be gathered from them but it seems after it was mentioned it was never brought up again no one wrote about it or seems to have investigated them. However it seems like I cant even find a picture of them at the memorial sites online anymore. I feel like it was a big part of it but was just never talked about again!?
You can find it at the top of the forum. Its under News, Tv, and radio related
 
I'm posting this because I'm interested in your comments about it; maybe you can help me add some pieces to a puzzle. I can't be too specific now, and I know that's frustrating - obviously it impedes your ability to assess my remarks; I hope I can be more forthcoming soon. Until recently, I was only peripherally aware of the Oak Beach killings, as I no longer live on Long Island. But a few weeks ago I did a sort of "where are they now" search on someone I once knew; he was sort of a scary person, and probably the first person I would've thought of if playing the "who from your hometown would you imagine to be a serial killer" game. When seeing that the internet info for this person (I'll call him POI from here on) showed an Oak Beach address for sometime after the period I knew him, I remembered the news stories about the serial killings. At which point I easily found a reference to the POI and burlap; he had access to plenty of it. Wondering if he might actually be a suspect in the case, on a lark I Google'd his name with the word "killer", immediately turning up a very odd claim by a blogger that my POI is the killer. I wrote the blogger twice, and he hasn't responded. My curiosity piqued, and already armed with my own knowledge of the POI, I continued to look into his activities over recent years, and he seems more and more like "a fit". Familiarity with the Oak Beach/Gilgo area? Check. Apartment in NYC? Check. Familiarity with police procedures (though he's not a cop or ex-cop), technologically savvy, independently wealthy, intelligent, persuasive and manipulative? "Checks" all around (the only major thing that differs from the standard LISK profiles I see is the age - this guy would have been slightly older). And, as I say, a bad apple, who was involved in two businesses (one illegal, one not) that are intrinsically related to the world that prostitutes live in. Another thing about my POI - he's dead, having passed away early last year. There are some odd things about that (the death, I mean, like no obits or funeral notices, but I guess I can understand that), and if I ever wrote a fictionalized novel of this I'd have all sorts of curious tangents to employ as plot lines.
Anyway, I looked into it for a couple of weeks (on the net, and by talking to other people who had known the POI); I was trying to stay objective about it even as my certainty that it was at least a "hot lead" grew. The POI would surely, I surmised, be someone the police were already looking at; he'd had run-in's with the law previously. Still, I gave the TIPS line a call, but decided not to give them my story because I wasn't particularly impressed with the person I spoke with (and that could just be my personal experience, they might be top-notch otherwise). I dug around online for a Suffolk homicide number, discovered that the ones I was dialing weren't working, and finally got a good number from the front-desk of my hometown's police department. I spoke to a homicide detective who assured me he'd relay the information to the proper department. After a week, when I discovered a new link that was probably more significant than anything I'd already described to the detective, I called that detective back; he suggested I email him some information, which I did. After about another week went by (with, obviously, no contact from anyone), I called someone who is not a policeman but who would know them, and who would have a professional interest in seeing that good leads are pursued; someone who is, from what I can see on the net, a respected and competent person. Well, my story pretty much blew him away; he said that he'd heard so many stories about the LISK, but that mine really had something to it. He said he knows all the people on the task force dedicated to this crime, and that he'd be able to find out right away if my POI's name was in the database being worked. So I sent him a long email with links and pics. He got back to me saying that he'd forwarded my info to a certain detective (so, by inference, perhaps that means that my POI's name was not being looked at), and that he considered it likely that the detective would contact me. More than a week has gone by, and I've not been contacted.
That's where it stands now. Maybe I'll be contacted next week, or maybe never. I can't very well keep prodding my recent contact, as he's done what he can to alert the police of my lead. In fact, other than write a fictionalized novel about it (and I'm only half-kidding there), I guess there's not much else I can do. To the extent that I can, I'd be happy to answer questions you might have about my POI, though I'm not about to name him here or privately at this time; he did have a family. I'll say (maddeningly!) that I can see this POI not being a serial killer proper, perhaps more driven by a "motive" for dumping bodies where he did.

Can you email me with the name of the OFFICER/Detective with whom you spoke? I can have someone get back to you asap (family LE detective from another area, that can check on the progress for you). Unless you have heard already heard back by now. I think I may call my detective contact anyway, and have them make sure LE is really working on this new lead! : ) I'll let you know what I find out! maybe this can get the ball rolling. :great:
 
:bump: Post from July 2012 by Seaslug44

As we all know, the girls seemed to comfortably let their guard down. There has been all sorts of speculation as to the LISK portraying himself as law enforcement, a political leader or even a VIP in an organized crime family (one of my thoughts). I have been exploring this from another angle;

Asking- What did each of the GB4 need or want so badly?

The thought process here is that if a person needs or wants something bad enough, they will be willing to go outside of their comfort zone to get it.

So here is my short list of motivators that the LISK could have possibly utilized to lure them in;

  • The promise of a large sum of money.
  • The promise of a large score of drugs.
  • The promise of an escape from the hold of a pimp.
  • The promise of a better life for them & their children (for those with kids).
  • The promise of a clean escape from the business.
  • The promise of a real job to replace the escorting.
  • The promise of something expensive (like a new car or expensive jewelry).
  • The promise not to hurt them or their families (as a blackmail tactic).
  • The promise to star in a high paying adult movie.
  • The promise of access to more higher paying clientele.
  • The promise to take them on an exotic vacation.
  • The promise to bring them to a party where they could meet celebrities.
  • The promise of a date with a celebrity or other extremely wealthy man.
As we all know, the girls seemed to comfortably let their guard down.

A promise was extended, I presume. A reason could be any or all of your highlights. Perhaps UnSub paid very well for a couple of previous times but I still cannot take their phones out of their hands. Unless there was a contract as in the 50 Shades flick.

As a divorcee, I take a bodyguard when I go out on the town. It's their job to make sure no one drops a roofie or such into my cocktail. BG watches over my personal belongings so I am free to mingle. He is handsome, a great dancer and would be considered by some to be labeled as a playboy. Regardless, my cellphone goes to all functions with me. I've not been able to reconcile the ladies leaving the piece key to their livelihood and their lifeline, ie., their personal cellphones, at home and not on their person.

That is, until a few years ago while viewing the movie based on the book written by the British author of 50 Shades of Grey. The main character is a charming, handsome, billionaire who seduces his prey for BDSM.

"Ana goes on a date with Christian, on which he takes her in his helicopter, Charlie Tango, to his apartment. Once there, Christian insists that she sign a non-disclosure agreement forbidding her from discussing anything they do together, which Ana agrees to sign. He also mentions other paperwork, but first takes her to his playroom full of BDSM toys and gear. There, Christian informs her that the second contract will be one of dominance and submission, and there will be no romantic relationship, only a sexual one. The contract even forbids Ana from touching Christian or making eye contact with him."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty_Shades_of_Grey

UnSub may not be a billionaire but surely must pay some of the ladies and not kill them all. Maybe he talked each of them into signing a contract regarding the cellphones. ATT, that's the best I can offer.
 
I can get over the cellphone thing either - especially when it was so central to their jobs.


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I can get over the cellphone thing either - especially when it was so central to their jobs.


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Correction - I can't get over the cellphone thing either - especially when it was so central to their jobs.


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Correction - I can't get over the cellphone thing either - especially when it was so central to their jobs.


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So I was thinking...Amber Costello was called numerous times that day of her last client. She had turned him down a few times, he kept calling her back. What IF he was someone like Jim Burke, or of his ilk? A top cop, promising she'd be safe, offering $1,500 for the night. Only he wants to make sure there are no pictures, so she can't bring her cell phone. He sweet talks her, convinces her he is safe, after all, he's a LEO, he'll protect her. So she leaves her phone at home and takes the job. Only it's LISK and she's now dead.

Wouldn't a scenario like that convince these girls not to take their phones? And we know Meslissa had her phone, LISK called her sister from it later and taunted her. So somewhere along the way LISK decided phones were a problem. GPS pings, calling for help like Shannan did, (for all the good I did her). IMO
 

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