Gilgo Beach 4 Only (GB4)

[Peter Brendt]

It looks like there are about 50 pawn shops in LI?

a.) Is there a list of them somewhere?

b.) We would need to add NYC as well. Remember some of the phone calls on MB's phone came from NYC.

c.) unrelated to pawn shops, but it just came to my mind when I wrote "MB's phone", but did anybody figure out now from where those NYC calls actually came. All was about Madison Square Garden and then suddenly, was it 48 Hours, Empire State Building popped up and Madison Square Garden disappeared. So what is correct?

 

[Peter Brendt]

What is their number?

(631) 854 8200 (that's their switchboard, I think)

 

[graceholl]

I was following this case with some intent around the time the GB4 bodies were found, but have only recently come back to examine it (I came to WS to revisit an old and now solved UK case but came across this board). I have spent the last couple of days going over the number of threads. My personal feelings so far, are that the GB4 murders are unrelated both to the AC murders and to the other bodies found in nearby proximity. Just my hunch, and this is not really substantiated on anything other than gut instinct and the differences between the disposals of bodies. Hence why I wanted to come to this thread, to discuss the GB4 murders alone—I'm not really read up on the AC murders. I am unsure about the Shannan Gilbert connection, but her disappearance and the discovery of her body both trouble me greatly, whether she is indeed a victim of the LISK or not.

I was interested to read PreciousDust's post about that “lightbulb” moment where everything seemed to become clear. There have been a few cases where this has led to an arrest and conviction, so I hope the LE work with your information. It is sad that so much time has passed without any hints of getting closer to solving this puzzle—that is, unless the LE are keeping schtum; but it does seem like the LISK has made every avenue a difficult one to pursue.

One other thought that puzzles me is why did the LISK leave such gaps between his victims? MBB and MB seemed to be taken in quick succession, and then the LISK went cold for 2008 before the murders of ALC and MW the following year. And only during summers—this suggests someone who vacations on LI, so I would tend to agree with those who have suggested that LISK may be a NYC/NJ resident, may possibly be wealthy, who owns a second home. Perhaps a happily married individual who takes fishing trips alone some summer weekends? Or even family trips, acting in the dead of night. JMO. So many possibilities. I hope eventually this is solved and justice is served.

 

[BKS]

Welcome back graceholl!

 

[Peter Brendt]

I was following this case with some intent around the time the GB4 bodies were found, but have only recently come back to examine it (I came to WS to revisit an old and now solved UK case but came across this board). I have spent the last couple of days going over the number of threads. My personal feelings so far, are that the GB4 murders are unrelated both to the AC murders and to the other bodies found in nearby proximity. Just my hunch, and this is not really substantiated on anything other than gut instinct and the differences between the disposals of bodies. Hence why I wanted to come to this thread, to discuss the GB4 murders alone—I'm not really read up on the AC murders. I am unsure about the Shannan Gilbert connection, but her disappearance and the discovery of her body both trouble me greatly, whether she is indeed a victim of the LISK or not.

I was interested to read PreciousDust's post about that “lightbulb” moment where everything seemed to become clear. There have been a few cases where this has led to an arrest and conviction, so I hope the LE work with your information. It is sad that so much time has passed without any hints of getting closer to solving this puzzle—that is, unless the LE are keeping schtum; but it does seem like the LISK has made every avenue a difficult one to pursue.

One other thought that puzzles me is why did the LISK leave such gaps between his victims? MBB and MB seemed to be taken in quick succession, and then the LISK went cold for 2008 before the murders of ALC and MW the following year. And only during summers—this suggests someone who vacations on LI, so I would tend to agree with those who have suggested that LISK may be a NYC/NJ resident, may possibly be wealthy, who owns a second home. Perhaps a happily married individual who takes fishing trips alone some summer weekends? Or even family trips, acting in the dead of night. JMO. So many possibilities. I hope eventually this is solved and justice is served.

Welcome back!

MBB disappeared in 2007
MB disappeared in 2009
MW and ALC both disappeared in 2010

So it's not an irregular timeline but just a classic ramp up function.

 

[graceholl]

Welcome back!

MBB disappeared in 2007
MB disappeared in 2009
MW and ALC both disappeared in 2010

So it's not an irregular timeline but just a classic ramp up function.

I don't know where I pulled that they both went in 2009 from! Thanks for the correction.

It does seem a while to wait, doesn't it. I wonder what prevented him/why he didn't have the means to kill in summer 2008. It was easy to feel a sense that the LISK was on some sort of rampage when the bodies were found together, but when we had the results of the identification, really, they are almost sporadic. Notorious SKs like Bundy seemed to kill whenever and wherever they could, often in quick succession. Does anyone have any theories as to the gaps in the timeline? (I guess working on the theory that the GB4 are the only work of a sole killer).

 

[Peter Brendt]

I don't know where I pulled that they both went in 2009 from! Thanks for the correction.

It does seem a while to wait, doesn't it. I wonder what prevented him/why he didn't have the means to kill in summer 2008. It was easy to feel a sense that the LISK was on some sort of rampage when the bodies were found together, but when we had the results of the identification, really, they are almost sporadic. Notorious SKs like Bundy seemed to kill whenever and wherever they could, often in quick succession. Does anyone have any theories as to the gaps in the timeline? (I guess working on the theory that the GB4 are the only work of a sole killer).

Jeffrey Dahmer waited 7 years before his first and his second murder. Bundy is still suspect in murders before the attack on "Joni Lentz" (JL is a pseudonym, Anne Rule invented because the victim survived) and between those murders were years. I have a lot more cases with similar timing behavior in my files. So technically, LISK's schedule follows almost exactly the kill-graph. What bothers me more is, he really upgraded his work between MBB and MB and he was already good in what he did in the MBB case. So either, he is just so bright (which I doubt a little, he is bright, but no genius as far as I see it) or he has more experience, which makes it possible, there are victims somewhere else. And somewhere else can mean other parts of the country, like South or Southwest. The interesting aspect is, if he kills elsewhere, his kills there would statistically follow the same ramping-up function as in LI. But as usual, that is only my opinion.

 

[Theforeigner]

My POI, according to himself, fell severely ill with RA in 2008.

I have been thinking that if a SK was suffering from Rheumatoid arthritis, he would probably choose petit victims, like the GB4 victims was, due to that the RA would affect his strength, mobility etc. in a negative way.

And IMO it is rather probable that he would not kill in the year the RA debuted, but when getting better the SK would probably get back to his SK activity.


I have also ben thinking that a SK could easely use the "suffering from RA" (even though the RA had been treated and getting much better) as a trap to make a prostitute put her guard down.

 

[Peter Brendt]

My POI, according to himself, fell severely ill with RA in 2008.

I have been thinking that if a SK was suffering from Rheumatoid arthritis, he would probably choose petit victims, like the GB4 victims was, due to that the RA would affect his strength, mobility etc. in a negative way.

And IMO it is rather probable that he would not kill in the year the RA debuted, but when getting better the SK would probably get back to his SK activity.


I have also ben thinking that a SK could easely use the "suffering from RA" (even though the RA had been treated and getting much better) as a trap to make a prostitute put her guard down.

How did he carry the bodies from his vehicle to where they were found? The RA would make that a real problem.

 

[Just K]

RA often has flare ups followed by periods similar to cancer remissions...it is often cyclical and in between episodes, the sufferer can look and acts like someone without the disease. It doesn't always affect the bones in that stereotypical deformation that is typically associated with aged arthritic hands and joints.

 

[Theforeigner]

How did he carry the bodies from his vehicle to where they were found? The RA would make that a real problem.

I kind of explaind that in my post: he choose very petit victims.
Add to that "Just K"'s explantion, and you have your answer.

And I have pictures of my POI climbing trees in 2009, so I have no doubt he was able to dump his victims along/close to the road as we know the GB4 was.

 

[graceholl]

Jeffrey Dahmer waited 7 years before his first and his second murder. Bundy is still suspect in murders before the attack on "Joni Lentz" (JL is a pseudonym, Anne Rule invented because the victim survived) and between those murders were years. I have a lot more cases with similar timing behavior in my files. So technically, LISK's schedule follows almost exactly the kill-graph. What bothers me more is, he really upgraded his work between MBB and MB and he was already good in what he did in the MBB case. So either, he is just so bright (which I doubt a little, he is bright, but no genius as far as I see it) or he has more experience, which makes it possible, there are victims somewhere else. And somewhere else can mean other parts of the country, like South or Southwest. The interesting aspect is, if he kills elsewhere, his kills there would statistically follow the same ramping-up function as in LI. But as usual, that is only my opinion.

Very true. I suppose if you were to believe he was responsible for the other similar SK sprees (AC for instance, possibly the one in North Dakota) then there would not particularly be any real anomalies in the time frames.

Do you believe the LISK is responsible solely for the GB4 murders?

EDIT: I've just gone over to the 'possible connections' thread. If one were to assume this was one killer for the many SK sprees, then still there remains a 'year off' in 2008. A little bizarre. Gosh, I just don't know what to make of this case.

 

[Theforeigner]

Does anyone have the info on how many feet exactley each of the 4 GB4 victims was dumped into the bushes/brambles?

Theorie of mine:
If Maureen BB who was killed, and proably dumped in 2007, prior to the time when my POI's RA debute in 2008, was the one found most far from the road, and then Melissa B, Megan W and Amber C was dumped closer to the rd, that could fit a SK whit no physical problem in 2007 (MBB) but then was not able to dump his bodies very far from the rd, and insted dumped them very close to the rd.

 

[Emre E]

Does anyone have the info on how many feet exactley each of the 4 GB4 victims was dumped?

Theorie of mine:
If Maureen BB who was killed, and proably dumped in 2007, prior to the time when my POI's RA debute in 2008, was the one found most far from the road, and then Melissa B, Megan W and Amber C was dumped closer to the rd, that could fit a SK whit no physical problem in 2007 (MBB) but then was not able to dump his bodies very far from the rd, and insted dumped them very close to the rd.

Roughly MBB and ALC were 5 ft, MW 5.6 ft well built, MB was also around 5.5 I guess. But I believe overconfidence could be a better explanation.

Yet, you have a POI, it's a gamechanger.

 

[Emre E]

Roughly MBB and ALC were 5 ft, MW 5.6 ft well built, MB was also around 5.5 I guess. But I believe overconfidence could be a better explanation.

Yet, you have a POI, it's a gamechanger.

Excuses

MB turns out petite as well
4.11
http://www.altereddimensions.net/crime/LongIslandSerialKiller.aspx

 

[Emre E]

Oh, God. I'm an idiot.

 

[graceholl]

Excuses

MB turns out petite as well
4.11
http://www.altereddimensions.net/crime/LongIslandSerialKiller.aspx

That website is interesting, but a couple of bits of info that aren't right. Could someone clear one of them up for me? It says that ALC vanished Sep '10, and MW June '10, but states that MW was the most recently deceased. Surely it was ALC?


Sorry folks, very new to the intricacies of this case.

One other thought - of all the contacts in Barthelemy's phonebook, LISK knew her sister's name. Very strange.

 

[Emre E]

That website is interesting, but a couple of bits of info that aren't right. Could someone clear one of them up for me? It says that ALC vanished Sep '10, and MW June '10, but states that MW was the most recently deceased. Surely it was ALC?


Sorry folks, very new to the intricacies of this case.

One other thought - of all the contacts in Barthelemy's phonebook, LISK knew her sister's name. Very strange.

It's just a random site. First site on google for when searching MB's height. Reading about Theforeigner's theory on POI with crappy spine and things like "feet" etc. I got lost and thought he was asking their heights.

 

[graceholl]

It's just a random site. First site on google for when searching MB's height. Reading about Theforeigner's theory on POI with crappy spine and things like "feet" etc. I got lost and thought he was asking their heights.

It seems pretty good, other than the fact I mentioned about the most recently deceased of the GB4. Does anyone know if I'm right in thinking it was ALC who was the most recently deceased?

 

[Peter Brendt]

It seems pretty good, other than the fact I mentioned about the most recently deceased of the GB4. Does anyone know if I'm right in thinking it was ALC who was the most recently deceased?

Well, at least, at this point, Foreigner and Just K have proven the technical possibility. What about the height of Foreigner's POI? Something like 5'11" or taller?