Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 3 murders, July 2023 #8

[Mountain_Kat]

Well, yes, and there is a difference.

GB4 were dumped with more pride in the project, since the torture/murder was the point. Manorville parts were scattered and we haven't heard of any parts of them being mailed to someone or anything, to send a message. All-in-a-day's-work gangsters and hit professionals are focused on the kill being a means to an end.

A lot of hits are left where killed for efficiency.

Gang enforcement might want to make an example of the victim, not disappear them.

Scattering body parts and leaving bodies with bindings, especially bindings that are someone's personal property, are both different from that.

MOO

I have been saying this for years. Maybe I have just sat with this case for so long that I have become immovable on some things, I dunno. But simple logic would tell you that there would be NO reason for RH to dismember and disperse victims, imo. Let's say, for the moment, that he somehow gets a sexual charge out of dismembering. Why bother to scatter them ? There's nothing to connect a random John with a fake name and a burner phone to a sex worker with a made up name and a burner phone. Why would he bother to try to cut out Jessica Taylor's " Remy's Angel " tattoo ? How on earth would that tattoo lead back to him ?

But what do I know ? I don't believe he brought these women to his home either and I seem to be in the minority on that too.

 

[iamshadow21]

@tararosenblum


Just learned that the Las Vegas PD DNA lab will be conducting a ‘direct comparison’ this week against Rex Heureman’s DNA and the DNA recovered in the case of murdered NJ mom Victoria Camara. Results expected in 6-8 weeks

If it's him, we'll know, and if it isn't, we'll know that. There is no bad answer here, only the truth. Good speed and clear results to LVPD's DNA lab and those who sail with her.

MOO

 

[kittythehare]

Cutting up, cleaning up, packaging up, and disposal even with power tools is still a lot more time than dumping a body, intact, unless you're going for a full burial. You need an area you can fully clean down, and even then, a bit of Bluestar and that room is going to scream what was done there. People are still going to do it, sure, but as we saw with the Florida case the other week, it makes an unholy amount of mess. It'd be a challenge, let's say, for someone to erase all trace of that so not only does your wife not notice when she gets home from holiday, but the CSIs who systematically stripped your house over a couple of weeks don't find anything, either. And they were looking HARD. They would have been over every inch of that place with presumptive testing for blood.

MOO

yeah but that's only if he brought them home. it doesn't look like he did. He has another place iMO

 

[kittythehare]

I have been saying this for years. Maybe I have just sat with this case for so long that I have become immovable on some things, I dunno. But simple logic would tell you that there would be NO reason for RH to dismember and disperse victims, imo. Let's say, for the moment, that he somehow gets a sexual charge out of dismembering. Why bother to scatter them ? There's nothing to connect a random John with a fake name and a burner phone to a sex worker with a made up name and a burner phone. Why would he bother to try to cut out Jessica Taylor's " Remy's Angel " tattoo ? How on earth would that tattoo lead back to him ?

But what do I know ? I don't believe he brought these women to his home either and I seem to be in the minority on that too.

I agree he didn't bring them home.
The attempted tatt removal would have been about the victim's identification, even when dismembered in perps eyes.

He could well have altered his methods for his own psycho reasons..like starting the process while they were still alive..

 

[iamshadow21]

yeah but that's only if he brought them home. it doesn't look like he did. He has another place iMO

Could be. And if so, I hope LE find it, spray it down, hit the lights, and watch that place glow. They will get results with Bluestar even if he's painted it, even if he's replaced the surface flooring.

MOO

 

[kittythehare]

Could be. And if so, I hope LE find it, spray it down, hit the lights, and watch that place glow. They will get results with Bluestar even if he's painted it, even if he's replaced the surface flooring.

MOO

They'll get everything if they find that place.
Including victims...
that's what I'm hoping for.

 

[iamshadow21]

I agree he didn't bring them home.
The attempted tatt removal would have been about the victim's identification, even when dismembered in perps eyes.

He could well have altered his methods for his own psycho reasons..like starting the process while they were still alive..

I think that's why he removed Karen's legs. She had visible scarring from the truck accident that harmed her unborn son. It was still visible when they found her legs, as they were still fleshed. I wonder if Valerie had a scar or a tattoo on her right foot, as it was found with her head and hands. A lot of the mutilation seems to be about hindering ID. There is a lot of head and hands removed, which, preDNA, face, dentals, and fingerprints was how they made ID. That, and identifying marks, like scars, tattoos, and past skeletal trauma.

MOO

 

[kittythehare]

I think that's why he removed Karen's legs. She had visible scarring from the truck accident that harmed her unborn son. It was still visible when they found her legs, as they were still fleshed. I wonder if Valerie had a scar or a tattoo on her right foot, as it was found with her head and hands. A lot of the mutilation seems to be about hindering ID. There is a lot of head and hands removed, which, preDNA, face, dentals, and fingerprints was how they made ID. That, and identifying marks, like scars, tattoos, and past skeletal trauma.

MOO

he didn't merely desire to kill them, he needed to annihilate their existences from memory..
I wonder whether part of him believed he was doing God's work?
Eliminating sinners like a good boy scout?
Yiikes, perish the thought...

 

[SonsOfCain]

A dismemberment takes time, and can also be driven by torture/murder being the point. For example, it's suggested that Peaches' cause of death WAS the dismemberment, the decapitation to be specific. Whereas the GB4 were strangled, a comparatively bloodless death.

The dismembered victims weren't mailed to anyone, no, but I think that's a relatively rare thing to happen, particularly in the modern age. It's not the nineteen twenties when you could ship a steamer trunk to a random address anymore. Hence a lot of dismembered victims ending up like Cherries, Evelyn Colon, and Aydil Barbosa Fontes - put in suitcases and thrown in waterways.

But a big upside of dismemberment doesn't exist any more. Hindering identification. With DNA, it doesn't matter how many parts someone is cut into, or how far you distribute them, DNA will assemble those parts into one person, and eventually, give LE a name for that person. So, for someone to cut someone up, they have to be determined. They have to be driven. Since identification isn't hindered by dismemberment any more, the two things remaining are transportation and gratification. Transportation for RH? No worries. He's a big strong guy with a car designed to transport a body (okay, not specifically designed, but very fit for purpose.) So, we're left with gratification. The kind of person who cuts somebody to pieces, alive or dead, because it fulfills something in them.

Whether RH and the killer of the dismemberment victims is the same person? I'm undecided at this point. I don't think they're as different as they appear on the surface. I think it's entirely possible for someone to start out dismembering to hinder identification, but then move to disposing of victims intact once it becomes clear that the advancement of DNA science means it isn't worth it. It wouldn't be satisfying for someone who just wants to dismember someone, or be practical for someone who needs to dispose of someone in smaller pieces, but it would be fine for someone who primarily cut bodies up to try to outwit LE. And, as someone else raised a while ago, if we leave out Cherries, then there's a progression from Karen, Peaches, Valerie and Jessica, all dismembered and scattered, to Asian Doe and the GB4, none of whom were, and all of whom were deposited on the same very small section of coastline.

Whether RH is responsible for the dismemberment victims or not, I think he has a body count stretching back far, far further than the GB4, so if we should be looking elsewhere for those victims, then where? I guess that's what we're going to find out as this case progresses.

(Oh wow, this was very long, sorry folks, apparently I have ~*ThoughtsTM*~ about dismemberment.)

MOO

I think you could be on to something in regards to the DNA point you’ve made. I also agree that this man definitely has a higher body count. The exact body count, I do not think we will ever truly know-at least not for a long time since DNA is an ever-progressing thing.

I am still going back and forth with the possibility of him being responsible for all of the murders. My own theory is that (if he is indeed responsible for all of the murders) he didn’t dismember the G4 because 1. He was getting older and constantly having to not only murder the victims, but then having to cut them up and make sure to scatter the parts was just taking too much energy from him (as opposed to just committing the murder and then dumping the body intact. And 2. He probably viewed the GB4 as his final “works of art” (ugh. Even writing that makes my stomach queasy). He seemed to take time (and a sick sense of pride) in not only making them suffer, but also their families by playing sick psychological games with them. He upped the ante and changed the game. Changing the way in which he disposes of the bodies over the years could very well have been a trick to try to throw LE off his tracks too. This man is not dumb. He is cold, calculating, observant, and obsessive to details. I bet he would have been following the news during the discovery of the bodies that predated the GB4 then, just as he appeared to have been doing when the news of the GB4 came out.

 

[Momoffourboys]

It seems to me that LE didn't check this area often based on the fact that some remains had been placed there years before 2010. It's more like a nature preserve for the ocean faring animals and insects and it's very rough terrain if someone is trying to get to the beach from Ocean Parkway. I did see some pictures of a tunnel entrance to Gilgo, but not sure where it's located or if RH used it at any point for dumping his victims.

Pretty sure that's the entrance to the actual sandy bit of the beach proper right where the surf is breaking, and the GB4 were placed along the road BEHIND that, in an area that's covered in brambles. Not somewhere you'd roll out your beach towel.

MOO

There is actually a turn off from Ocean Parkway for 4x4 vehicles to access the Gilgo beach sand. It was closed off for a few years due to beach erosion and recently reopened (I believe 4 years ago).

 

[CuriousCricket]

At this point, the clothing they were found in is definitely our biggest clue.

Would you please refresh my memory - which ones had clothes?

 

[iamshadow21]

Would you please refresh my memory - which ones had clothes?

Asian Doe was wearing what are described as women's clothes. I don't know whether the clothing of any of the others are described, or if they were wearing any.

If you go out to the more distantly associated LISK cases, I think Andre Isaac (Sugar Bear) was clothed, despite being dismembered. Source: Mom thinks death of son who dressed as a woman, found dismembered is tied to Gilgo Beach murders

Peaches, her baby (Toddler Doe), and Lattingtown Doe were all wearing jewelry, but no mention is made of clothing. Peaches' baby was wrapped in a blanket.

Gilgo Beach serial killings - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

Thanks.
Thinking there are probably known to criminals/organized crime/gangs dumping grounds … dark, deserted, no cameras and ability to see approaching headlights. RH probably not unique in using those areas.

We don't know, if RH had chosen these places because of his (murderer-)predecessors or who was first.

 

[iamshadow21]

he didn't merely desire to kill them, he needed to annihilate their existences from memory..
I wonder whether part of him believed he was doing God's work?
Eliminating sinners like a good boy scout?
Yiikes, perish the thought...

I don't think there was any hint of a higher motivation, I think he just hated girls, women (and feminine men) and wanted to hurt them. Remember his search history? Crying, bruised faces, tied up... Young girls, women, twinks. No religious abuse material listed, though I'm sure we only saw a fraction of a fraction of the totality. It was enough to give us a feel for what makes him tick, though.

MOO

 

[Warwick7]

I agree they're not so different.
A word about dismemberment, it doesn't have to take much time at all using power tools.. faster than one would imagine, from my days in orthopaedic operating rooms..

All he'd need is electricity for the power tools, water for hosing down and receptacles, then just drop them off in the course of a dive to the ocean.. or whatever.

BBM
We have a thread here at WS for Tiffany Lazon.

Her estranged husband barrowed a circular saw and quickly dismembered Tiffany.

:0(

 

[Barbie619]

I have been saying this for years. Maybe I have just sat with this case for so long that I have become immovable on some things, I dunno. But simple logic would tell you that there would be NO reason for RH to dismember and disperse victims, imo. Let's say, for the moment, that he somehow gets a sexual charge out of dismembering. Why bother to scatter them ? There's nothing to connect a random John with a fake name and a burner phone to a sex worker with a made up name and a burner phone. Why would he bother to try to cut out Jessica Taylor's " Remy's Angel " tattoo ? How on earth would that tattoo lead back to him ?

But what do I know ? I don't believe he brought these women to his home either and I seem to be in the minority on that too.

Up until RH's arrest I seriously believed Atlantic City was connected to GB4, so I get what you're saying about being immovable about certain things pertaining to this case. I'm slowly letting it go and that AC & Gilgo are related.

As far as dismemberment, I still think it's possible RH could have started out that way and as time and age caught up with him he was satisfied with all the other parts of what he was doing. He hates women and he was brutal in every aspect of his crimes, and it makes me ill to imagine him hovering over all the victim's in a rage.

Josh Zeman stated on the Nancy Grace special on Sunday that he doesn't believe there are multiple killer's dumping bodies in the same exact place as RH. I'm still open to all thoughts and ideas about this case and what has yet to be revealed and maybe shock us all.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I don't think there was any hint of a higher motivation, I think he just hated girls, women (and feminine men) and wanted to hurt them. Remember his search history? Crying, bruised faces, tied up... Young girls, women, twinks. No religious abuse material listed, though I'm sure we only saw a fraction of a fraction of the totality. It was enough to give us a feel for what makes him tick, though.

MOO

What makes him tick, in my opinion, is power and control. I hesitate to type this because I don't want it to be misconstrued as empathy for RH, but I think there is a great deal of self loathing at play here. I think he felt shame for these urges. How do you reduce the shame ? You shift the responsibility. " If YOU weren't this, I wouldn't be this "...that realm of thinking. I think we see that in his calls to Melissa's little sister. Did he want to torment her ? Absolutely. But within that he also displays venom at the profession itself...as if it's very existence somehow MADE him do the things he did. It didn't , of course, but I think he tells himself that it did.

JMO

 

[acutename]

What makes him tick, in my opinion, is power and control. I hesitate to type this because I don't want it to be misconstrued as empathy for RH, but I think there is a great deal of self loathing at play here. I think he felt shame for these urges. How do you reduce the shame ? You shift the responsibility. " If YOU weren't this, I wouldn't be this "...that realm of thinking. I think we see that in his calls to Melissa's little sister. Did he want to torment her ? Absolutely. But within that he also displays venom at the profession itself...as if it's very existence somehow MADE him do the things he did. It didn't , of course, but I think he tells himself that it did.

JMO

that is my impression-hates his addiction
but we do not even know how he engaged with these women ... maybe just hates them; believes that he is "cleansing the world" etc. IMO (and I am always wrong about these killers anyway but I guess I like trying to guess)

 

[Mountain_Kat]

that is my impression-hates his addiction
but we do not even know how he engaged with these women ... maybe just hates them; believes that he is "cleansing the world" etc. IMO (and I am always wrong about these killers anyway but I guess I like trying to guess)

I suspect he has many addictions. It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that he's a hoarder who calls himself a "collector", a drinker who blames the stress of his job and his family for his need to " escape ", a gambler who finds himself in debt but tells himself he can get out of this mess if he can just hit the big one, etc. etc. And it makes me wonder if there is a strong foundation of lack of accountability in his childhood. I also can't help but wonder if the early death of his father was somehow offered up as an excuse not to accept responsibility for his actions, not just by him, but also by others around him who should have held him accountable.

Just thinking out loud really.

 

[Just K]

Up until RH's arrest I seriously believed Atlantic City was connected to GB4, so I get what you're saying about being immovable about certain things pertaining to this case. I'm slowly letting it go and that AC & Gilgo are related.

As far as dismemberment, I still think it's possible RH could have started out that way and as time and age caught up with him he was satisfied with all the other parts of what he was doing. He hates women and he was brutal in every aspect of his crimes, and it makes me ill to imagine him hovering over all the victim's in a rage.

Josh Zeman stated on the Nancy Grace special on Sunday that he doesn't believe there are multiple killer's dumping bodies in the same exact place as RH. I'm still open to all thoughts and ideas about this case and what has yet to be revealed and maybe shock us all.

For whatever reason AC LE has ruled out RH, whether that is this case or not it’s still quite possible that RH copied the AC presentation. I can’t help but think he might have been competing with another or even other killers. It’s possible he met creeps of like mind in his internet dealings.