Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 3 murders, July 2023 #9

[CuriousCricket]

Assuming the LISK Task Force will be disbanded once Harrison has left, who will track down, arrest and prosecute the others who were involved in the LISK murders? The same people who allowed Rex Heuerman to live as a free man for 12 years?

Maybe the task force won't be disbanded. Hasn't Tierney conducted the investigation using the Grand Jury? Since he is conducting this case and the upcoming trial himself, his career will rise or fall with this case. Maybe that's enough to ensure continuing investigation and pursuit of justice wherever it might lead.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

A witness statement about a large man who looked like an ogre and his green colored truck wasn’t much stronger thane hearsay evidence, yet it brought them the name of Rex Heuermann. The witness , a friend of victim Amber Costello, who gave that description to a NY State Police detective in 2010 had to wait until 2022 for LE to call him back.

Many other witnesses have told of valid tips and information called in to SCPD with no call back, no interview. Will that magically change, especially if the multi agency task force is disbanded?

Tierny has already been dismissing the tips given recently, since Rex’s arrest. We’ve seen this movie before.

I'm not saying that all hearsay is useless information or can't result in the discovery of usable evidence.
As I said, it is tragic that the information /evidence wasn't followed up on at the time it was known to LE.
The person who saw the green truck and suspect is a possible witness with important testimony, direct or circumstantial evidence, having not read their statement. This can't be compared to hearsay evidence, which is inadmissible.

People are not witnesses because they call in a tip, and since we can't judge the information they gave, it's not possible for us to claim it was "valid" or that they qualify as a witness, needed an interview, etc. LE has to work its way thru a lot of third-party stories and rumors. Is there a list of these "many"? Are we talking about the current task force?

Tierney does not personally screen tips, moo, I'm sure the task force has had to dismiss hundreds of tips. If he has responded to questions about tips, I suspect there was a reason for whatever his response was. He is not going to end his chance of re-election in 2025 by being cavalier about tips.

 

[Betty P]

I'm not saying that all hearsay is useless information or can't result in the discovery of usable evidence.
As I said, it is tragic that the information /evidence wasn't followed up on at the time it was known to LE.
The person who saw the green truck and suspect is a possible witness with important testimony, direct or circumstantial evidence, having not read their statement. This can't be compared to hearsay evidence, which is inadmissible.

People are not witnesses because they call in a tip, and since we can't judge the information they gave, it's not possible for us to claim it was "valid" or that they qualify as a witness, needed an interview, etc. LE has to work its way thru a lot of third-party stories and rumors. Is there a list of these "many"? Are we talking about the current task force?

Tierney does not personally screen tips, moo, I'm sure the task force has had to dismiss hundreds of tips. If he has responded to questions about tips, I suspect there was a reason for whatever his response was. He is not going to end his chance of re-election in 2025 by being cavalier about tips.

There have been many relevant tips from witnesses called in to the leaders of this investigation and many that were never investigated.

A tip from a person who saw Rex H at a swingers party in his home is not hearsay evidence, nor are tips from a cab driver who saw someone fitting Rex’s description attempting to violently attack a sexworker and, in another instance, heavily armed and attempting to threaten the same driver into taking them both to a dark secluded area.

Those are examples of direct testimony that can be verified, but were initially ignored by SCPD. They might be incidents that happened years ago, but that’s because Rex was only recently arrested. These witnesses then recognized him from those recent news reports.

 

[snarast]

Most Recognizable Player = Rex

 

[Ruminations]

My comment was only to do with what Huermann might think of the possibility of a new commissioner, not anyone else. I don't think he reacted with any "relief" at the announcement. The number of murders, beyond 3, that he is charged with is of no consequence to him.
That does not imply anything else.

The county executive has already assured that the investigation will continue unabated.

The tragedy of lack/delay of follow-up on information and physical evidence, in my opinion, is the fault of many but not the result of a conspiracy or corruption.

What you are calling "evidence" is so far, a lot of hearsay, when it comes to saying anyone in particular is an accomplice. But the task force is in place to investigate this information.
At any rate, in an ongoing investigation, we are not going to hear what has been found to be true or rumor any time soon.

Gilgo Beach probe will continue unabated after top cop Rodney Harrison's departure, Suffolk County executive says

"Justice has not been done for all of the families who have been impacted by these horrific crimes. So that will continue, but it will continue with the new police commissioner, and it will continue with the new administration as well," Steve Bellone said.

www.newsday.com

Okay, but most of us are not here to evaluate the impact of events or theories on a defendant.

we are focused on the victims.

how does it impact the victims if the commissioner changes? If nobody steps up and keeps the investigation going, many victims do not get justice.

that's what matters.

moo
MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

All of those murder victims and their families deserve justice. Their cases shouldn't go cold without a thorough investigation, nor should they be dismissed as "probably a tragic accident" just because they might reveal other killers who are walking around as free men on Long Island.

Recent evidence has revealed that Heuermann didn't always work alone, that he was part of a "network" (for lack of a better term) of creeps. There's evidence that hints Rex may have known another possible suspect involved in the "accidental death" of Shannan Gilbert (both were involved in the Survivalist hobby world).

The evidence that clearly linked Rex Heuermann to the deaths of several women laid inactive in a file box for 12 years until it was researched and followed up by an agent from the NY State Police. They caught Rex in 1 month with evidence that had been around for more than a decade. Assuming the LISK Task Force will be disbanded once Harrison has left, who will track down, arrest and prosecute the others who were involved in the LISK murders? The same people who allowed Rex Heuerman to live as a free man for 12 years?

The World is watching this case, there will be no abandoning further investigation into it IMO. The LISK Task Force will continue I have no doubt, the handling of this case has been a major faux pas (putting it mildly) all these years that cannot and will not be overlooked anymore.

JMO

 

[Ruminations]

How I hope you're wrong about Tierney. He has very good reason to be on the opposite side of the Spota-Burke group having been squeezed out of a job in the Spota regime. However, you are absolutely correct, Tierney must play politics in order to stay in office.

I hope I'm wrong too.

it's important to stay positive.

Rodney Harrison IS all that, but he is also just a person. and the difficulty in these Gilgo cases appears to be about the corruption, not criminal genius. If anything, we seem to be looking at a band of people so arrogant they were more likely to leave evidence in our faces. Any police commissioner who is qualified and not corrupt can keep the investigation on track.

in some ways, the people who play both sides, like tierney, are the playable characters. We need a police commissioner who keeps the playable characters encouraging those who will always investigate in good faith with the tools they need, and keep those who will always interfere with the investigation as weak as possible. The reality is tierney has shown hostility to new info, while playing Superman with the incontrovertible. So we need to flood the Superman work for him, and make him unable to play defense with evidence.

MOO

 

[Baby baby Jane]

I’m curious now 1 what’s the link between the 2 in survivalist hobby world ? I can’t find it, or Survivalist Dynamics. <modsnip - do not bring unrelated people into this tragic case>. I’ve read Google on survivalist and I think I am one because I keep emergency supplies !

 

[Betty P]

I’m curious, after all the extensive research done, over a decade, into CPH, we are only now hearing about this survivalist angle. If it’s true, how in the world was it missed by 100s of us?

It was probably done by people who are local and who could look up information about his business. He may not have had a web site, etc.

Hackett was involved with LE. For years he served as the Director of EMS for Suffolk County. Maybe some of them did business with him or knew of his business.

In the years after Shannan's disappearance, WS members couldn't "sleuth" Dr. Hackett because he wasn't named as a suspect by LE.

This is where the real life Dr Hackett from Netflix's 'Lost Girls' is now

He was not treated as a suspect in Shannan's case

thetab.com

 

[CuriousCricket]

The reality is tierney has shown hostility to new info, while playing Superman with the incontrovertible. So we need to flood the Superman work for him, and make him unable to play defense with evidence.

MOO

Do we know it was new info? New to the public and perhaps John Ray, but we have no idea what the Task Force and Tierney know.

In my mind, the two roles played by lawyer/investigator John Ray and DA Tierney are so very different it is to be expected they see things differently. From what I've observed, each seems to have a healthy ego. We know nothing of their prior dealings, if indeed they've had any. I don't necessarily expect them to play well together, but am trusting each to succeed in his own job.

Harrison massaged Ray's ego at the press conference and encouraged anyone with any information to tell someone - any one - as who knows what might be important. Ray gave the public information we did not have before. The info is intriguing and provides fodder for much speculation.

However, it may be info the Task Force had already uncovered. Perhaps not the individual witnesses, but the swinger lifestyle, associates of the Heuermann couple, etc. etc. Again, it might be information Tierney does not need as it is already covered and the team is working new areas.

Tierney is handling a huge case that will make or break his career and reputation. No wonder he's guarding everything closely.

We know his team is ploughing through all the vastness of "stuff" which may or may not be evidence taken from the Heuermann home, two storage units (to which a medical examiner was called), the New York truck, the South Carolina truck and properties in South Carolina and Nevada (and perhaps other places we don't know about yet).

With the sheer mountain of possibilities before Tierney, I can understand that he would like for everything to come down one pipeline instead of hurtling in from all sides. However, John Ray seems to have an interest in claiming evidence, some of which he tells us can't go to court because the people are unwilling for their names to appear in public. Long time Websleuthers like and respect Ray for his presistance and dedication to keeping the case before the public. That's cool.

But why not give Tierney the benefit of an occasional doubt? Just because he and John Ray aren't twinning doesn't mean he's not got his job well in hand.

 

[Betty P]

Do we know it was new info? New to the public and perhaps John Ray, but we have no idea what the Task Force and Tierney know.

In my mind, the two roles played by lawyer/investigator John Ray and DA Tierney are so very different it is to be expected they see things differently. From what I've observed, each seems to have a healthy ego. We know nothing of their prior dealings, if indeed they've had any. I don't necessarily expect them to play well together, but am trusting each to succeed in his own job.

Harrison massaged Ray's ego at the press conference and encouraged anyone with any information to tell someone - any one - as who knows what might be important. Ray gave the public information we did not have before. The info is intriguing and provides fodder for much speculation.

However, it may be info the Task Force had already uncovered. Perhaps not the individual witnesses, but the swinger lifestyle, associates of the Heuermann couple, etc. etc. Again, it might be information Tierney does not need as it is already covered and the team is working new areas.

Tierney is handling a huge case that will make or break his career and reputation. No wonder he's guarding everything closely.

We know his team is ploughing through all the vastness of "stuff" which may or may not be evidence taken from the Heuermann home, two storage units (to which a medical examiner was called), the New York truck, the South Carolina truck and properties in South Carolina and Nevada (and perhaps other places we don't know about yet).

With the sheer mountain of possibilities before Tierney, I can understand that he would like for everything to come down one pipeline instead of hurtling in from all sides. However, John Ray seems to have an interest in claiming evidence, some of which he tells us can't go to court because the people are unwilling for their names to appear in public. Long time Websleuthers like and respect Ray for his presistance and dedication to keeping the case before the public. That's cool.

But why not give Tierney the benefit of an occasional doubt? Just because he and John Ray aren't twinning doesn't mean he's not got his job well in hand.

The witnesses who provided the information to Ray and SCPD said they had called in tips to SCPD before, some multiple times, but never received a call back. It's somewhat difficult to investigate and rule out a tip without talking to the person who sent it in. You have to ask why SCPD didn't respond to the tips, especially when two of the witnesses signed affidavits and have agreed to testify in court if necessary.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

There have been many relevant tips from witnesses called in to the leaders of this investigation and many that were never investigated.

A tip from a person who saw Rex H at a swingers party in his home is not hearsay evidence, nor are tips from a cab driver who saw someone fitting Rex’s description attempting to violently attack a sexworker and, in another instance, heavily armed and attempting to threaten the same driver into taking them both to a dark secluded area.

Those are examples of direct testimony that can be verified, but were initially ignored by SCPD. They might be incidents that happened years ago, but that’s because Rex was only recently arrested. These witnesses then recognized him from those recent news reports.

I'm sure it's not your intent, but this is putting words in my mouth. The above examples are not what I spoke to when referring to something as "hearsay". You stated there was evidence that an accomplice was involved with RH.
I said that there was no actual evidence, it was hearsay. I have only heard of the attorney claiming that he has information from others that he believes MAY show a possible person somehow helped/assisted RH. That is hearsay. This attorney cannot be called to a witness stand and repeat this information that he heard from others and his taking written statements from anyone doesn't make it evidence.

As for your claim that Tierney himself is dismissing tips, I'm not seeing that as being a fair or accurate statement.

The case is already being prosecuted and there is no basis for continuing to claim that, presently, the investigation is being hindered or will be in the near future or that widespread corruption played a part in the commissioner's resignation. The county executive has already stated the task force will continue its work "unabated".
MOO

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

If anything, we seem to be looking at a band of people so arrogant they were more likely to leave evidence in our faces.

What are the names of these arrogant people and what does it mean to "leave evidence in our faces"?

 

[Ruminations]

Do we know it was new info? New to the public and perhaps John Ray, but we have no idea what the Task Force and Tierney know.

In my mind, the two roles played by lawyer/investigator John Ray and DA Tierney are so very different it is to be expected they see things differently. From what I've observed, each seems to have a healthy ego. We know nothing of their prior dealings, if indeed they've had any. I don't necessarily expect them to play well together, but am trusting each to succeed in his own job.

Harrison massaged Ray's ego at the press conference and encouraged anyone with any information to tell someone - any one - as who knows what might be important. Ray gave the public information we did not have before. The info is intriguing and provides fodder for much speculation.

However, it may be info the Task Force had already uncovered. Perhaps not the individual witnesses, but the swinger lifestyle, associates of the Heuermann couple, etc. etc. Again, it might be information Tierney does not need as it is already covered and the team is working new areas.

Tierney is handling a huge case that will make or break his career and reputation. No wonder he's guarding everything closely.

We know his team is ploughing through all the vastness of "stuff" which may or may not be evidence taken from the Heuermann home, two storage units (to which a medical examiner was called), the New York truck, the South Carolina truck and properties in South Carolina and Nevada (and perhaps other places we don't know about yet).

With the sheer mountain of possibilities before Tierney, I can understand that he would like for everything to come down one pipeline instead of hurtling in from all sides. However, John Ray seems to have an interest in claiming evidence, some of which he tells us can't go to court because the people are unwilling for their names to appear in public. Long time Websleuthers like and respect Ray for his presistance and dedication to keeping the case before the public. That's cool.

But why not give Tierney the benefit of an occasional doubt? Just because he and John Ray aren't twinning doesn't mean he's not got his job well in hand.

John Ray has nothing to do with my analysis and opinion of Tierney.

On the other hand, it is true that Tierneys anti-evidence response to John Ray did bolster my suspicion of his having a less than complete commitment to the investigation.

Tierney COULD have said, he regrets that anyone may not trust LE or Crime Stoppers, but he is committed to earning that trust back. But Tierney DID say tipsters should go to LE only, with no reassurance at all, even though the new evidence is partially from witnesses who did use the tip line and were ignored. It's very hostile to new information, and a refusal to acknowledge, the first step to repairing, problems with crime stoppers.

A tip through a victims lawyer is much better than no tip at all, isn't it? He didn't even acknowledge it was helpful to have that info. Maybe he didn't really want it.

Tierney already has enough to secure a high profile conviction. It feels to me that he wants this for political reasons, and also wants to not tick off the people who though SCPD was just fine before the Harrison/task force days.

I think he hopes people forget about the other victims. That way, voters will see him as committed to prosecuting Heuermann ((potentially for a fraction of his crimes) and the SCPD old timers will see him as not rocking the boat...not exposing a potential brooklyn detective (who could live in Nassau or Suffolk).

He would keep powerful friends on his side by: Not exposing whatever went down with the Oak Beach investigation and 911 responses, not exposing any more than has already been exposed about the investigation into Shannan's murder being basically dropped (while claiming the 911 call had to be held by LE because of an active investigation).

As I said before, staying positive is important. And Tierney is a playable character because he still want to appear to be a good prosecutor. I don't have reason to think he'd commit crimes to stay in with old timers. His need for that appearance is why we have to keep his feet to the fire; it will help. So I'm trying to stay positive, but that is not achieved by crawling under a rock.

MOO

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I think he hopes people forget about the other victims. That way, voters will see him as committed to prosecuting Heuermann ((potentially for a fraction of his crimes) and the SCPD old timers will see him as not rocking the boat...not exposing a potential brooklyn detective (who could live in Nassau or Suffolk).

He would keep powerful friends on his side by: Not exposing whatever went down with the Oak Beach investigation and 911 responses, not exposing any more than has already been exposed about the investigation into Shannan's murder being basically dropped (while claiming the 911 call had to be held by LE because of an active investigation).

You have no idea of what Tierney thinks or feels and to make these statements is uncalled for. With no reason you make it seem that he can be easily corrupted. An elected DA doesn't reach back to "old timers" in a police dept worrying he will "rock the boat". What "powerful" friends?? Detectives that didn't do their jobs?
A disgraced ex-police chief?
He is elected by the citizens, he works with a whole staff of prosecutors, I'd say most of them enjoy finding justice for victims.

 

[Just K]

As to corruption in Suffolk County, NY. The history of several important characters within this case and people in government, LE and in Oak Beach is all very well documented. It’s possible that there are people in important positions that do not want any connection to RH or Gilgo Beach to be exposed.I will leave it at that to avoid ruffling feathers.

Also, this might be about money. If SC can limit the number of investigations into possible connections of the other six or seven bodies found on the parkway and the remains of other UID bodies, they will save money. That might be a part of the equation as far as ignoring certain tips.

 

[Betty P]

I'm sure it's not your intent, but this is putting words in my mouth. The above examples are not what I spoke to when referring to something as "hearsay". You stated there was evidence that an accomplice was involved with RH.
I said that there was no actual evidence, it was hearsay. I have only heard of the attorney claiming that he has information from others that he believes MAY show a possible person somehow helped/assisted RH. That is hearsay. This attorney cannot be called to a witness stand and repeat this information that he heard from others and his taking written statements from anyone doesn't make it evidence.

As for your claim that Tierney himself is dismissing tips, I'm not seeing that as being a fair or accurate statement.

The case is already being prosecuted and there is no basis for continuing to claim that, presently, the investigation is being hindered or will be in the near future or that widespread corruption played a part in the commissioner's resignation. The county executive has already stated the task force will continue its work "unabated".
MOO

You should go back and read some of Tierney's recent statements. You should also listen to Harrison's statement with JR. He states that some people who sent tips to SCPD never received replies. Tips were actually left on a voice-mail type of program.

The tips about Rex H's activities, including the swinger parties and the cab driver who encountered him on 2 different occasions and who he threatened were people who called in tips recently. Most of these witnesses have only recently contacted LE and/or John because they saw Rex H on tv when he was arrested. Witnesses then recognized him from prior encounters. He's very recognizable and memorable because of his size and appearance.

I don't recall stating to you that Rex H had an accomplice in the murders. That hasn't yet been proven, but its suspected in some cases. If SCPD continues to conduct quality investigations, and follow up on the tips sent in, they may find out.
It's also worth noting some of the other unsolved murders attributed to LISK are in different jurisdictions, so hopefully those agencies (including NY State Police) will continue investigating.

For now, all tips go to the multi-jurisdictional Task Force, which is headed by SCPD. I wouldn't be surprised if the task force is dissolved after Harrison leaves, leaving the others to pursue their own investigations instead of having to wait for Tierney and others to do something with the info they've uncovered.

JMO

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

The CPH in this case is not the survivalist that has been commented on here. It is a case of yet another doctor with the same name. A quick google search takes all of 5 minutes to see that this is not a relevant lead.

As to corruption in Suffolk County, NY. The history of several important characters within this case and people in government, LE and in Oak Beach is all very well documented. It’s possible that there are people in important positions that do not want any connection to RH or Gilgo Beach to be exposed.I will leave it at that to avoid ruffling feathers.

Also, this might be about money. If SC can limit the number of investigations into possible connections of the other six or seven bodies found on the parkway and the remains of other UID bodies. They will save money. That might be a part of the equation as far as ignoring certain tips.

The disgraced chief was only there 3 years, his downfall, which started in his first year (2012) there, had nothing to do with this case, and neither did the others that obstructed the investigation into the chief's coverup of his assaulting the in-custody thief. In a police dept of more than 2500 sworn personnel, I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few bad apples, both then and now. The major crimes unit and its chain of command are responsible for the neglect of the investigation. It's exposed and they knew who they were. Nothing I've seen amounts to a long history of widespread corruption that has a stranglehold on LE and the DA, who has only been there since 2021.


An elected DA doesn't answer to others in local governments, the point is, that there is absolutely nothing to say this DA is corruptible and it's odd to talk like it's inevitable. Are you also pondering that the new police commissioner, the new county executive, the chief of police and the sheriff will also get corrupted without any indication that they will?
It's not about money. Each agency pays their person(s) assigned to the task force. All detectives in major crime units get overtime pay. When the courts, prosecutors and LE have cases that are very costly, they don't just stop working, the county pays for the extra costs that can't be done from their budgets.
MOO
I assume the ignored tips are to do with Attorney Ray.

<modsnip: The Sun is not an approved source at Websleuths>

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

For now, all tips go to the multi-jurisdictional Task Force, which is headed by SCPD. I wouldn't be surprised if the task force is dissolved after Harrison leaves, leaving the others to pursue their own investigations instead of having to wait for Tierney and others to do something with the info they've uncovered.

Gilgo Beach probe will continue unabated after top cop ...​

Newsday
https://www.newsday.com › Long Island › Crime


You should read the below articles about what will happen to the task force and what the position is on "tips"


Everyone would be surprised if the task force was dissolved, the county executive, who is elected to the highest office in the county, has already stated that it would continue on with its work. Do you have some reason to doubt his statement?

Tips are often left on a recording, the manpower required to answer tip phone lines is not doable. 911 communication centers are understaffed and most all police depts are short on personnel. This is standard even in the best of times. Many people want to leave a message and not talk to an actual person who will ask questions.

If there is a victim of a crime where RH is going to be accused of assault, that victim must make a police report and agree to assist with prosecution. A witness cannot report/describe a crime they saw and have it simply result in charges when a victim exists. If they don't have specific information that the prosecutor can use for these murders, it is not evidence in the murder case.

You should read this article. It clearly states what the task force will be doing with the tips. It clearly states tips are being researched.

<modsnip - The Sun is not an approved source>

Gilgo Beach probe will continue unabated after top cop Rodney Harrison's departure, Suffolk County executive says

"Justice has not been done for all of the families who have been impacted by these horrific crimes. So that will continue, but it will continue with the new police commissioner, and it will continue with the new administration as well," Steve Bellone said.

www.newsday.com

 

[Just K]

The disgraced chief was only there 3 years, his downfall, which started in his first year (2012) there, had nothing to do with this case, and neither did the others that obstructed the investigation into the chief's coverup of his assaulting the in-custody thief. In a police dept of more than 2500 sworn personnel, I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few bad apples, both then and now. The major crimes unit and its chain of command are responsible for the neglect of the investigation. It's exposed and they knew who they were. Nothing I've seen amounts to a long history of widespread corruption that has a stranglehold on LE and the DA, who has only been there since 2021.


An elected DA doesn't answer to others in local governments, the point is, that there is absolutely nothing to say this DA is corruptible and it's odd to talk like it's inevitable. Are you also pondering that the new police commissioner, the new county executive, the chief of police and the sheriff will also get corrupted without any indication that they will?
It's not about money. Each agency pays their person(s) assigned to the task force. All detectives in major crime units get overtime pay. When the courts, prosecutors and LE have cases that are very costly, they don't just stop working, the county pays for the extra costs that can't be done from their budgets.
MOO
I assume the ignored tips are to do with Attorney Ray.

According to this article, nothing is being ignored.

LISK victims' lawyer reveals deepest fear over 'Rex Heuermann’s reign of terror'

AN attorney for a woman found dead near Gilgo Beach has said he fears there are far more victims of accused Long Island Serial Killer Rex Heuermann that have yet to be discovered – both dead …

www.the-sun.com

I have not suggested anything that you write in this post. After following this case since 2011- thirteen years, there is a very long and well documented history of corruption in Suffolk County, NY. No one is suggesting that the current DA is corruptible. He actually left the SC DA’s office after only a few years there. He went on to the federal branch of law.