Graphic Photos/ Day 6 The Garotte, The Cord, and Paint brush/12 Days of JonBenet

[PositiveLight]

I'm glad this came up. John was in the Navy in the 80's, stationed in the Philippines. At the time, there were numerous rebel factions fighting the Marcos regime, and the Navy was trained in garrotes because the locals used them. The Philippines were once a Spanish colony, and garroting was a method of execution used by the Spanish long after the other European empires had abandoned it.

YES!!!! Thank you for bringing this up. I had researched garroting and they ways it was done and saw where they were still using this method as a form of execution up until march 1974.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrote#Abolition
Plus a lot of gangs and groups used the kind of garrot you could carry with you as an execution method. It was their signature.

 

[expat79]

For me personally, it's impossible to take Stanton's account of hearing a scream seriously, so I've thrown it out altogether. When someone says they hear a child scream, then say maybe it wasn't an actual scream, but rather the child's " negative energy" being felt, then says that, oh yes, it was a scream...meh. You either hear it or you don't.

Or, she was threatened by Team Ramsey, and later retracted her statement is more likely.

 

[YouWho]

YES!!!! Thank you for bringing this up. I had researched garroting and they ways it was done and saw where they were still using this method as a form of execution up until march 1974.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrote#Abolition
Plus a lot of gangs and groups used the kind of garrot you could carry with you as an execution method. It was their signature.

Was it an FBI profiler who said the crime showed two perps, one organized and one not? There are several things that point to JR being more actively involved in the cover up than I have been willing to believe. I find it hard to believe that patsy did all that covering up herself, plus they seem to me to have a relationship built on some principals that say obey your husband.

 

[YouWho]

I don't have a solid theory about the scream. I do not believe that JB was sleeping, first of all.

I think it's possible that the scream was a sibling argument. I didn't know JB, but many 6 year old girls will scream like crazy if their brother takes their doll. Especially in a late night after Christmas festivities.

I think if BDI, it could have been Patsy finding JB.

I definitely don't think it was sexual abuse, though. Many grown women don't even scream when raped. People freeze, dissociate, etc. I'll try to grab a link later, but I doubt the information is difficult to find.

What about you?

ETA, I also think 3-5 seconds is pretty long, but I wasn't there.

Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk

3-5 seconds is overlong. Perhaps exaggerated and like MK says, it's sketchy.

Also, I read the Bonita papers last night. I wonder exactly how many people wrote books or started writing books that never saw the light of day?

 

[BOESP]

It really is a massive fracture. It was considered blunt force trauma, meaning she was hit with a blunt object. Her injuries don't match up with being dropped. But that was originally theorized.

Respectfully, I hate to be a curmudgeon but blunt force trauma isn't restricted to being hit with a blunt object (i.e. somebody picks up a weapon and swings it, striking something). Blunt force is the opposite of sharp force (i.e., knife, screw driver, etc.). Blunt force trauma often occurs in auto accidents when a body strikes an immoveable object inside or outside the vehicle. In other words, the body can strike something (i.e. being slung, dropped, pushed, etc.) and blunt force trauma can occur.

 

[BOESP]

What about the triangle shaped bruise at her front neck? Consistent with someone grabbing and twisting her shirt collar?

That's the way I see it YouWho. I envision a grab and twist around the collar of whatever JonBenet was sleeping in as Patsy forced her into the bathroom.

 

[BOESP]

I think what makes it difficult for me to latch on to the idea that strangulation wasn't part of the staging is the construction of the "garrote" itself. It's not an actual garrote. The whole point of the stick part of the construction would be to tighten the rope around her neck by turning the stick. Obviously, that would not work the way this particular "garrote" was constructed. So, why is it even there? If a child is already unconscious, you certainly don't need to construct a silly movie prop in order to strangle her. And if you are an intruder in someone else's home, where her other family members are sleeping, you damned sure don't take time to construct a useless prop to strangle a child when the cord alone would have accomplished the goal.

In my mind, this device just reeks of staging.

BBM - to me, the paintbrush handle allowed the responsible to pull the rope without having to look at JonBenet as she was strangled. I think the offender's heel, toe or entire foot could have steadied JonBenet's body as the responsible pulled the rope while looking away.

 

[BBB167893]

DF: What do you make of the 3-5 second scream heard between 10-12pm by the neighbor across the street?

I'm not sure the scream happened. The neighbor has changed her story a few times

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Or, she was threatened by Team Ramsey, and later retracted her statement is more likely.

What could the Ramsey's do to her? Sue her for being a witness in a murder investigation? And if she was so terribly frightened of the Ramsey's, why then change the story back to it definitely being a scream?
Either way, her story is too inconsistent to be allowed to become part of a factual timeline, imo.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

BBM - to me, the paintbrush handle allowed the responsible to pull the rope without having to look at JonBenet as she was strangled. I think the offender's heel, toe or entire foot could have steadied JonBenet's body as the responsible pulled the rope while looking away.

Why would the stick be needed for that? I can certainly pull on the other end of a rope while doing all the things you just described.

 

[BBB167893]

What could the Ramsey's do to her? Sue her for being a witness in a murder investigation? And if she was so terribly frightened of the Ramsey's, why then change the story back to it definitely being a scream?
Either way, her story is too inconsistent to be allowed to become part of a factual timeline, imo.

Maybe they could phony up criminal charges against her? They did that to one person I know of.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Was it an FBI profiler who said the crime showed two perps, one organized and one not? There are several things that point to JR being more actively involved in the cover up than I have been willing to believe. I find it hard to believe that patsy did all that covering up herself, plus they seem to me to have a relationship built on some principals that say obey your husband.

One of the things I think is important to remember when considering the opinions of FBI profilers like John Douglas, etc. is that they didn't have access to the police files and weren't part of the actual investigation. They based their conclusions on limited information. And in Douglas' case, much of that information came from Team Ramsey.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Maybe they could phony up criminal charges against her? They did that to one person I know of.

Anything is possible, I guess. But my larger point was that this testimony is not reliable enough to be put into any fact-based timeline .It's basically useless, imo.

 

[Hatfield]

Why would the stick be needed for that? I can certainly pull on the other end of a rope while doing all the things you just described.

You could but the rope/string was so thin that it would begin to hurt your hands with the force you would need to keep it very tight. I believe it can take multiple minutes to strangle someone to death.

Looking at the photos I am seeing something that i never realized before. The handle was just to pull the other end of the rope. It was not used to twist the rope or anything. The other end that went around her neck had a normal slip knot that allowed the string to tighten around her neck. Which means the person pulling on the handle had to keep it tight while pulling.

I had always thought the wooden handle was to twist the handle to tighten the rope but I dont think it had anything to do with that. The handle part was basically just a handle on a leasch and the other end was just a ring of rope with a slip knot. Like a noose.

I tend to think that the garrott and strangulation was just done to finish her off and make sure she died.

I have to wonder if her initial injury was something else entirely like the head injury. I have to wonder if maybe the child was gurgling or making other noises and the person wanted to put her out of her misery and so after trying to maybe strangle with their hands or a pillow they could not get her to die or couldnt bring themself to do it. So they ended up thinking of this rope garrot method to quickly make something that could put her out of her misery.

The reason I think it was the very last thing that was done was because there would have been other rope marks around her neck if she would have been struggling to get away. There is only bruising and no real distinct rope marks that would have surely been present if JBR would have been struggling. I suspect she was basically unconciounce but still breathing by the time the garrott method was used to finish her off.

 

[Hatfield]

Respectfully, I hate to be a curmudgeon but blunt force trauma isn't restricted to being hit with a blunt object (i.e. somebody picks up a weapon and swings it, striking something). Blunt force is the opposite of sharp force (i.e., knife, screw driver, etc.). Blunt force trauma often occurs in auto accidents when a body strikes an immoveable object inside or outside the vehicle. In other words, the body can strike something (i.e. being slung, dropped, pushed, etc.) and blunt force trauma can occur.

I agree.
I always wonder if just falling down those stairs may have caused the head injury. As a body tumbles down the stairs the head can be whiplashed downwards to the next stair and I could see where if she fell in just the right way that maybe the injury to the head was from a fall down the stairs.

If that happened I dont think it was simply an accident of JBR falling down the stairs though because any normal person would just call 911 if that happened. There was much more going on if she tumbled down those stairs. Whether she was pushed shoved or running for her life there had to be something else going on for a big coverup to have happened.

 

[BBB167893]

You could but the rope/string was so thin that it would begin to hurt your hands with the force you would need to keep it very tight. I believe it can take multiple minutes to strangle someone to death.

Looking at the photos I am seeing something that i never realized before. The handle was just to pull the other end of the rope. It was not used to twist the rope or anything.

Agreed.

The other end that went around her neck had a normal slip knot that allowed the string to tighten around her neck. Which means the person pulling on the handle had to keep it tight while pulling.

Not necessarily. The cord could have been pulled tight and not come loose again.
What you say could be true, though.

I had always thought the wooden handle was to twist the handle to tighten the rope but I dont think it had anything to do with that. The handle part was basically just a handle on a leasch and the other end was just a ring of rope with a slip knot. Like a noose.

Right. Very inefficient.

I tend to think that the garrott and strangulation was just done to finish her off and make sure she died.

I have to wonder if her initial injury was something else entirely like the head injury. I have to wonder if maybe the child was gurgling or making other noises and the person wanted to put her out of her misery and so after trying to maybe strangle with their hands or a pillow they could not get her to die or couldnt bring themself to do it. So they ended up thinking of this rope garrot method to quickly make something that could put her out of her misery.

The reason I think it was the very last thing that was done was because there would have been other rope marks around her neck if she would have been struggling to get away. There is only bruising and no real distinct rope marks that would have surely been present if JBR would have been struggling. I suspect she was basically unconciounce but still breathing by the time the garrott method was used to finish her off.

Maybe, hatfield. You make some good points, but I just don't think anyone knew she was breathing.

 

[RickshawFan]

YES! Good point. Because this also points to the manner of choking. If it was a garrote it is twisted. If it is as you say a toggle rope, that would require pulling am I correct?
Points me back to BR being in scouts.
Or JR being in the Navy.
JMO

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

In the photo it looks as though that is a garrotte (which can refer to many different types of implements, including the type with handles on both ends). To me the photo suggests that there is a loop at the other end of the rope from the stick. The stick would have been passed through the loop and then pulled. The stick could even have been wedged behind something (a window bar?) and the child shoved or kicked.

 

[RickshawFan]

On the garrotte, where's the second end of the rope? Under the knot?

It occurs to me that could be a sewing knot. Costume making? Upholstery? Macrame? Sewing knots have tidy ends. I can't even see an end in that photo.

 

[RaeL]

On the garrotte, where's the second end of the rope? Under the knot?

It occurs to me that could be a sewing knot. Costume making? Upholstery? Macrame? Sewing knots have tidy ends. I can't even see an end in that photo.

The rope was tied around the neck using a slip knot style of tie if I remember... Then it runs up to the paintbrush handle and is tied (wrapped) around that a number of times. The end of the rope on the paintbrush side looks to be tucked underneath the wrapped part (with JBR hair entwined in it). I'm not sure what type of knot or wrap it is - but I find it unique.. May be a nautical type of tie?

 

[RaeL]

BBM - to me, the paintbrush handle allowed the responsible to pull the rope without having to look at JonBenet as she was strangled. I think the offender's heel, toe or entire foot could have steadied JonBenet's body as the responsible pulled the rope while looking away.

Given that her hair was tangled in the wrapped cord around the paintbrush handle, was that hair ripped out of her head when the handle was pulled?

Edited to add: OR, was the hair cut from the handle at autopsy?