Graphic Photos/ Day 6 The Garotte, The Cord, and Paint brush/12 Days of JonBenet

[madeleine]

IDK madeleine
but does he makes it seem like the tdna from the waistband was
tested as two individual samples?

thats what I understood too!thats why I am curious

 

[jillyr1059]

Didn't they own a boat?? It would be interesting to me to see if the use of this type of knot was used on the boat or anywhere else around the house. Obviously if the person known to use this type of knot would be the one who made the device.

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Kind of looks like the way we wrap the rope to tie our pontoon to the dock...figure 8 cleat hitch

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[Airasae]

The garotte. Is it a complicated knot that makes the garotte or is it a simple knot that anyone can do.

IMO there is no garrote. There is a device that was used for strangulation. It is unusual. It is fiddly. It is not particularly efficient. I wish I could see a clearer image of the knot of the loop that was around the neck.

The cord. Where did it come from? Where did the rest of the cord go? Was there more cord?

I think that the cord was just lying around the basement. I know a lot of time was spent trying to find the source of the cord. Cording can be bought by the length rather than in a package or on a roll.(although I know the police matched the cord)
Or perhaps the device was just lying around the basement. Maybe BR previously made the buddy rope while playing in the basement at any time prior to the murder. He could have learned to make it at Boy Scouts.

The paint brush handle. It was broken to make the garotte. It came from Patsy's paint tote.

As above but also, what need was there to break the paint brush and how was it broken? It looks like almost all the varnish had worn off so I guess it was an old brush, was it brittle? Could it already have been broken?

Was the garrote, the ligatures around JonBenet wrists, all part of staging? Was this staging done by someone trying to think like a criminal?

I think that the strangulation device was not staged but that the wrist ligatures and the tape over the mouth was.

 

[BOESP]

It is possible that she was swung and hit something (a dresser, a doorway), instead of something being swung to hit her. It doesn't fit with what I think probably happened but I figured I would put it out there as a possibility.

That's been my guess for several years, for what that's worth. :twocents:

 

[EgyptNug]

The house keeper said she saw a similar device on a box in the basement during her time working at the Ramseys.(I'll try and find her exact wording)

I just saw it here about the box
http://someoneisgettingawaywithmurder.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/death-of-innocent.html?m=1

If that is really the house keeper's blog. (?)

I also thought it odd the part about her believing PR hit JBR in the crotch before the head. I wonder if she suspected that had happened before...

 

[Airasae]

I just saw it here about the box
http://someoneisgettingawaywithmurder.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/death-of-innocent.html?m=1

If that is really the house keeper's blog. (?)

I also thought it odd the part about her believing PR hit JBR in the crotch before the head. I wonder if she suspected that had happened before...

How can we be sure it is a legitimate source? Also I don't put much stock in what she says, it is quite rambling and comes across to me like attention seeking.

 

[CoreyRocks]

It is possible that she was swung and hit something (a dresser, a doorway), instead of something being swung to hit her. It doesn't fit with what I think probably happened but I figured I would put it out there as a possibility.

I have often wondered about that, too, BelleIsle! She had low posts on her bed (I believe that is what they are called) with hard wood knobby balls at the top. If she was swung like you mentioned or even dragged off the bed those knobby things at the end of the bed could certainly do some damage to her tender skin. Makes me shudder that this monster wasn't arrested. I believe all three were involved to some extent mainly JR. My opinion only.

 

[Sunshine4Me]

I do have a question about the idea of staging vs part of the crime - is it possible that the garotte was not a part of the crime, but that the strangulation in general was? I'm trying to think how to explain my thought process. As in, whoever strangled her did it in a "normal" fashion, just a rope around the neck, but then the garotte and those knots were part of the staging, to make it seem too complicated/strange for people in the house to have thought of?

I've kind of always thought this because I have a hard time with the parents strangling her so forcefully, and fibers believed to be Patsy's were found inside the knot on the ligature around her neck. If Patsy or John, it had to have been a terrible rage. I lean towards Burke with the ligature and Patsy making the horrible garrotte type thing afterwards to make it appear as something a child couldn't do. That's just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

 

[Airasae]

MOO~
The knot looks intricate to me. JR was in the navy. Maybe he taught BR how to tie knots? The knot makes me think a male made the garotte.
(I'd find it interesting to see statistics on how often women use ligature strangulation vs. men)

Was there touch DNA on the cord?

Was BR in boy scouts? Maybe dad and son visited the army store for items like the swiss army knife and cord for boy scout tasks. My daddy was a Boy Scout troup leader for 18 yrs. He was a eagle scout and silver beaver. Highest you can go. My brother was an eagle scout. I spent a lot of time with all of the scouts and am familiar with what they learn and badges earned. My daddy and my brother could tie any knot. They learned it in the scouts. It was an important part for them to learn. This is why I ask if BR was in the boy scouts at some point.

The paint brush was an opportunity item as was the cord. The train room BR had was also in basement. Maybe he kept things in the room like his knife and cords and such.

There was a lot of anger in whom ever choked her. That cord was deeply embedded in her neck. Also looks like there were several attempts like the person doing it wasn't quite strong enough to choke someone. It took some time. I think this is actually when the blow to the head happened. I notice a bruise on her shoulder too. Possibly the perp wasn't strong enough to finish choking her or wanted it over quickly.

Ok the cord around the wrist and long section to other wrist. This is some possibilities that come to my mind. Maybe the reason the cord was so long was because it was originally tied around an object to the other wrist to restrain her to a location.

It was supposedly tied in front of her. To make this situation make sense let me set up the scene.
JBR on tummy hands tied around something like a pipe. Choking was also from behind. Possible head injury from behind too?
After she was deceased, the perp undone the cord around wrist and wrapped her in her favorite blanket (which would mean the perp knew it was in the dryer.)

Question: Was both wrists still bound or only one wrist when she was found?
I think this would be an important fact due to the thought that if it was someone who loved her they may have tried to "undo" what they did by putting her clothes back on and wrapping her in blanket.
If it was a intruder, I feel they would have left her exposed.
Could BR have been caught by mama after the fact and she tried to give her back some dignity covering her up and staging scene.
I read somewhere that BR and JBR was caught by the housekeeper playing doctor. Maybe it got out of hand.

JMOO though and what the scene seems to say to me.
I'd be interested to know if there were any pipes or an object she could have been tied to in the basement.

Do you have a link for the housekeeper catching them playing doctor? I haven't seen that before

 

[questfortrue]

A few informative photos and a curious video

Here’s what a papoose looks like. –


Here’s what a “twister” constructed in India resembles. -


Here's how JR describes finding her body and how she was wrapped. -
[video=youtube;2SwkXfkdyWc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SwkXfkdyWc[/video]

 

[PositiveLight]

Do you have a link for the housekeeper catching them playing doctor? I haven't seen that before

Trying to find where I read that. Might be a little bit though. I will try to find you a link.

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[otg]

(rsbm)

A few informative photos and a curious video

"The blanket was brought up around her... and crossed in front of her, as if somebody was... tucking her in."
​

What I find interesting about John's description is how (despite the 3 seconds or so that he claims to have seen her lying in the WC) he knows exactly how it was wrapped around her and even what the person's intent was (to tuck her in).

 

[Airasae]

I have often wondered about that, too, BelleIsle! She had low posts on her bed (I believe that is what they are called) with hard wood knobby balls at the top. If she was swung like you mentioned or even dragged off the bed those knobby things at the end of the bed could certainly do some damage to her tender skin. Makes me shudder that this monster wasn't arrested. I believe all three were involved to some extent mainly JR. My opinion only.

I read mention on one of these 12 days threads that Patsy was observed looking for blood on the curtains above Jonbenet's bed. I do not have a source for this info but if it is true then you could be on the money.

 

[questfortrue]

(rsbm)

"The blanket was brought up around her... and crossed in front of her, as if somebody was... tucking her in."
​

What I find interesting about John's description is how (despite the 3 seconds or so that he claims to have seen her lying in the WC) he knows exactly how it was wrapped around her and even what the person's intent was (to tuck her in).

~RBBM~
Yes, only a few seconds to understand this person's intent and inform Father Rol that he didn't think the kidnapper meant to kill her. "She was warm; she was wrapped in a blanket."

 

[DatelineFan]

On one of these threads, someone recently posted that they think the cord was so long (on her hands), because whoever did it wanted to use all of it. I think that makes a lot of sense! One less thing to try to hide or explain?

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[MsJosie]

Tricia, when will we have a DNA day?
Everybody around here knows I am not IDI so I am posting this only because I wanna understand things better.
There was this expert on the A&E show claiming that contamination is excluded because matching DNA was found on BOTH sides of JB'S pants.Is he right, is he wrong, can someone pls elaborate?TIA

What is IDI?...intruder did it....I don't know....but those phrases do not make sense the few times I have read it here. Thanks!

 

[DatelineFan]

What is IDI?...intruder did it....I don't know....but those phrases do not make sense the few times I have read it here. Thanks!

Yes.
IDI - Intruder Did It
RDI - Ramsey Did It
BDI - Burke Did It

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[MsJosie]

Tricia or any mod Can you put the link to the Bonita Papers at the beginning of this thread? It really gave some more insight to the happenings, before, during and after. It may answer some questions and or bring up more! IMO after reading the Bonita Papers, I am confident all 3 Ramseys are involved. Thanks for posting them Tricia, I had never seen them before.

 

[bxbbysoxer]

I've kind of always thought this because I have a hard time with the parents strangling her so forcefully, and fibers believed to be Patsy's were found inside the knot on the ligature around her neck. If Patsy or John, it had to have been a terrible rage. I lean towards Burke with the ligature and Patsy making the horrible garrotte type thing afterwards to make it appear as something a child couldn't do. That's just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

Yes, that's what I lean to as well. I feel like Patsy was just dramatic enough to think up this horrible thing, to cover up what could have been something simple. I just wish there was evidence/any way to know if that method of strangulation was actually used.

 

[PositiveLight]

Do you have a link for the housekeeper catching them playing doctor? I haven't seen that before

I think this is where I found it possibly. Mind you I was probably exhausted when I read it. Does anyone have any confirmation that LPH ever said this?
Maybe a long term sleuth may know?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...2760855&highlight=playing+doctor#post12760855

MOO