***GRAPHIC*** The Missing Head

[thedissent]

Thedissent this is the second time I've noted you writing that the head was buried; Where did you learn this detail? I hadn't seen it previously reported.

Hope you are having a great Wednesday.




Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

Hmm, it's possible I'm being sloppy with the facts. I thought in several news reports there was mention of dogs leading to the location, and that the police "uncovered" the "human remains". I understood "uncovered" to mean the remains weren't laying out in the open. But, it seems reports are now suggesting that the human remains were not buried, but were located using sniffer dogs.

 

[thedissent]

Do you honestly believe that he really thought he would not get caught? If he didn't want to get caught he would have never committed the crime in his own apartment and certainly would not have left such a mess behind (right in the apartment). At most he thought he'd have had more time before his capture.

I fully believe he expected police to *eventually* reach his apartment, hence the bloody mess (left to shock) and the plagiarized Charles Manson quote scrawled on the wall (for media consumption).

I think he also fully expected to be caught, *eventually*.

But I do not believe he expected the heat to come so soon (hence he was using his cell phone in Europe until probably reading news reports and realizing LE was already onto him, maybe even reading that LE were using his cell to track his movements).

And I certainly do not believe he expected to be caught so soon. He wanted to be linked to the crime, for sure, as he wanted the attention. And figured he'd one day get caught. But certainly not within a week. He was hoping for a drawn out "cat and mouse" game, with constant media reports... alas, the police came a knocking.

 

[thedissent]

- The reporter then states “it was clear that they had a very, very precise location”. Spokesperson responds by stressing the importance of not revealing certain details as Montreal police does not want to “jeopardize whatever is left to be done in this case. The case will be going to Court and we don't want to jeopardize those legal procedures also”

Snipped by me.

Very interesting. Thanks for the post, HC.

If the police had a "very precise" location to head to before even entering the Park, but the remains themselves, once located, were not buried or concealed, it seems to me entirely possible that any random person using the Park could have came across the remains, and decided to phone in an anonymous tip (to avoid a media firestorm).

Here is a link to an image of where the remains were located:

http://i.thestar.com/images/54/02/51ddba704acba80e49333e2f6e54.jpg

Photo Source: Toronto Star

Looks like a pretty open spot, with grass and a nice tree, likely regularly used by someone walking by, or wanting to enjoy the water. Seems like a passerby, or someone near the water, could easily have spotted or found something unusual like potential human remains, if it was not hidden or buried, but just sitting near the water, as indicated in news reports.

 

[Apple OC]

Snipped by me.

Very interesting. Thanks for the post, HC.

If the police had a "very precise" location to head to before even entering the Park, but the remains themselves, once located, were not buried or concealed, it seems to me entirely possible that any random person using the Park could have came across the remains, and decided to phone in an anonymous tip (to avoid a media firestorm).

Here is a link to an image of where the remains were located:

http://i.thestar.com/images/54/02/51ddba704acba80e49333e2f6e54.jpg

Photo Source: Toronto Star

Looks like a pretty open spot, with grass and a nice tree, likely regularly used by someone walking by, or wanting to enjoy the water. Seems like a passerby, or someone near the water, could easily have spotted or found something unusual like potential human remains, if it was not hidden or buried, but just sitting near the water, as indicated in news reports.

That might not be the exact spot ... and if it was, the head could have been just thrown in those reeds and nobody noticed it.

 

[HastingsChi]

Snipped by me.

Very interesting. Thanks for the post, HC.

If the police had a "very precise" location to head to before even entering the Park, but the remains themselves, once located, were not buried or concealed, it seems to me entirely possible that any random person using the Park could have came across the remains, and decided to phone in an anonymous tip (to avoid a media firestorm).

Looks like a pretty open spot, with grass and a nice tree, likely regularly used by someone walking by, or wanting to enjoy the water. Seems like a passerby, or someone near the water, could easily have spotted or found something unusual like potential human remains, if it was not hidden or buried, but just sitting near the water, as indicated in news reports.

The consistent use by the Montreal Gazette and many other media outlets of the phrase "edge of the pond" to describe the location where human remains were discovered is quite puzzling to me.

Noting that the police spokesperson stated that upon discovery it was not known what they had found, I'd assume Magnotta further desecrated the remains following the murder and that combined with a month of decomposition might explain the condition of the remains.
However edge of the pond leads one to conclude it was in plain sight the entire time.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

 

[thedissent]

The consistent use by the Montreal Gazette and many other media outlets of the phrase "edge of the pond" to describe the location where human remains were discovered is quite puzzling to me.

Noting that the police spokesperson stated that upon discovery it was not known what they had found, I'd assume Magnotta further desecrated the remains following the murder and that combined with a month of decomposition might explain the condition of the remains.
However edge of the pond leads one to conclude it was in plain sight the entire time.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S 2

Yeah, it's a bit unusual.

Hmm. Having now given it some more thought, it seems it would be pretty difficult to "phone in" to describe verbally, or even write with words, a "precise location" in a Park that big. There is nothing remarkable about that spot, that would make it easier to describe to police so that they would know precisely where to go, upon arriving.

This leads me to suspect that police had some other source for the locale, other than some kind of "tip" that was called in, or even received via a note from LRM, or an anonymous email.

So, how could police have a "very precise" location in a large park, before arriving?

How about GPS coordinates extracted from EXIF data of a digital photo?

So, here's a hypothesis: if LRM took a digital photo of the location, which was found by police on his computer. And police were able to use EXIF data on the photo to determine where the photo was taken. Using GPS coordinates, they would know exactly where to go, before even going.

I know, mere speculation. But thought I would throw it out there.

 

[Mozzmo]

@thedissent

On the other hand, having now given it some more thought, it seems it would be pretty difficult to "phone in" to describe verbally, or even write with words, a "precise location" in a Park that big. There is nothing remarkable about that spot, that would make it easier to describe to police.

This leads me to suspect that police had some other source for the locale, other than some kind of "tip" that was called in, or even received via a note from LRM, or an anonymous email.

So, how could police have a "very precise" location in a large park, before arriving?

How about GPS coordinates extracted from EXIF data of a digital photo?

So, here's a hypothesis: if LRM took a digital photo of the location, which was found by police on his computer. And police were able to use EXIF data on the photo to determine where the photo was taken. Using GPS coordinates, they would know exactly where to go, before even going.

I know, mere speculation. But thought I would throw it out there.

I hypothesized about this in a similar manner a few days ago and posted it on here. I am not tech savvy enough to know if GPS coordinates can be obtained from a photo. I had hypothesized that perhaps LM took photos of where he had placed the head (either with or without it in the photo) and that perhaps the time stamp on the photos fit with the timeline of discarding the body parts. Additionally, I thought it might be possible to use the photo as a way of knowing precisely where to go. Just days before the crime LM posted in depth videos of the Moor murders and how they used photos to mark where they put bodies. So I also wondered if he lifted this idea and used it for placing the head. The photos could have been then used in a taunting manner just as he did with his "pre-release" video photo. It all just a hypothesis, but it ribbons nicely with his patchwork copying of various fictional and historical killers...

 

[thedissent]

@thedissent



I hypothesized about this in a similar manner a few days ago and posted it on here. I am not tech savvy enough to know if GPS coordinates can be obtained from a photo. I had hypothesized that perhaps LM took photos of where he had placed the head (either with or without it in the photo) and that perhaps the time stamp on the photos fit with the timeline of discarding the body parts. Additionally, I thought it might be possible to use the photo as a way of knowing precisely where to go. Just days before the crime LM posted in depth videos of the Moor murders and how they used photos to mark where they put bodies. So I also wondered if he lifted this idea and used it for placing the head. The photos could have been then used in a taunting manner just as he did with his "pre-release" video photo. It all just a hypothesis, but it ribbons nicely with his patchwork copying of various fictional and historical killers...

Yeah, I think I remember someone suggesting this earlier. Really interesting. The time stamp idea is also a possibility, for sure. Perhaps it could have been both-- time plus location.

Geo-location coordinates are included in EXIF data if the camera or phone has GPS functions. Most smartphones today (including the iPhone which LRM was known to possess at some point) have GPS functions, so a photo taken with an iPhone or smarphone would contain EXIF data that included geotagging, or a latitude/longitudinal coordinates for the location where the photo was taken.

 

[Sillybilly]

The consistent use by the Montreal Gazette and many other media outlets of the phrase "edge of the pond" to describe the location where human remains were discovered is quite puzzling to me.

Noting that the police spokesperson stated that upon discovery it was not known what they had found, I'd assume Magnotta further desecrated the remains following the murder and that combined with a month of decomposition might explain the condition of the remains.
However edge of the pond leads one to conclude it was in plain sight the entire time ...

Hmm .. if LE didn't know for sure what it was, that would seem to rule out a passerby calling in saying they found a human skull.

 

[Sillybilly]

Here is a link to an image of where the remains were located:

http://i.thestar.com/images/54/02/51ddba704acba80e49333e2f6e54.jpg

Photo Source: Toronto Star

I suspect that's a generic pic of the general area and not necessarily the specific location where the remains were found. The earlier pics we had posted with the forensic mobile lab showed a more secluded spot. The Star picture actually is captioned

People sit by the lake in Angrignon Park in Montreal, Monday, July 2, 2012, where police carried out a search after receiving information linked to the Luka Rocco Magnotta case.

from:
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...-human-remains-found-in-public-park-on-sunday

JMO

 

[mrs hunt]

I have watched that bike video again,the person who looks like Magnotta at 2:27
seems to have a phone in his hands

 

[Karmady]

I have watched that bike video again,the person who looks like Magnotta at 2:27
seems to have a phone in his hands

agree, he's defo checking his phone or texting. Plus, those clothes are SO not lm's *style* -- dude looks relatively normal.

 

[Karmady]

Yeah, I think I remember someone suggesting this earlier. Really interesting. The time stamp idea is also a possibility, for sure. Perhaps it could have been both-- time plus location.

Geo-location coordinates are included in EXIF data if the camera or phone has GPS functions. Most smartphones today (including the iPhone which LRM was known to possess at some point) have GPS functions, so a photo taken with an iPhone or smarphone would contain EXIF data that included geotagging, or a latitude/longitudinal coordinates for the location where the photo was taken.

a poster said they pegged the location using the playground in the photos as a reference. So "it's at the edge of the pond across from the playground." Bring a dog to that area...voila

 

[Sunday]

@thedissent



I hypothesized about this in a similar manner a few days ago and posted it on here. I am not tech savvy enough to know if GPS coordinates can be obtained from a photo. I had hypothesized that perhaps LM took photos of where he had placed the head (either with or without it in the photo) and that perhaps the time stamp on the photos fit with the timeline of discarding the body parts. Additionally, I thought it might be possible to use the photo as a way of knowing precisely where to go. Just days before the crime LM posted in depth videos of the Moor murders and how they used photos to mark where they put bodies. So I also wondered if he lifted this idea and used it for placing the head. The photos could have been then used in a taunting manner just as he did with his "pre-release" video photo. It all just a hypothesis, but it ribbons nicely with his patchwork copying of various fictional and historical killers...

Yes, GPS coordinates can be derived from photos. I doubt any photos taken were uploaded to his computer because he most likely deposited the head on his way out. The photo could have been on his phone (I believe that was discovered after being ditched in France?) or on his camera. But who really knows. Where did he post about the Moors murders? I heard that he had some interest in them but did not know he was posting about them just days before the murder. Any links?

 

[Mozzmo]

Yes, GPS coordinates can be derived from photos. I doubt any photos taken were uploaded to his computer because he most likely deposited the head on his way out. The photo could have been on his phone (I believe that was discovered after being ditched in France?) or on his camera. But who really knows. Where did he post about the Moors murders? I heard that he had some interest in them but did not know he was posting about them just days before the murder. Any links?

Here is link to LM youtube sock puppet that "liked" the Moor videos..it also includes the 1 lunatic 1 pic, pre-release video. I believe all of these were posted just a week or so before the murder (posts were made May 15-16th). If you look at the dates, it appears he posted the "pre-release" video with his ice pick snap shot right about the same time with the Moor video "likes":

http://lukamagnotta.org/resources/alexisvaloranreich - YouTube.pdf

 

[Miss Patti]

I am happy and sad at the same time but very thankful for the news that the missing body part has been recovered. RIP Jun Lin. :tears:

 

[claudicici]

I still don't believe the head was there the entire time nor do I believe LM placed it there.I believe he send it to someone and that person disposed of it and came clean to the police.I agree with other posters that said there may be another arrest soon.I don't think this person is an accomplice in the crime but has inside knowledge and received the head....

 

[Silverlona]

About the packages,
maybe "packages" should be "parts".
6 packages/parts = 2 hands, 2 feet, 1 torso, 1 head.
Surveillance camera in LRM's apartment building
and in Canada post would have showned if there were
6 "packages", right?

About the head tip,
LE could probably ask for LRM's searches on
different search engines, from the Internet Provider.
Maybe they can see if he zoomed in on a location on Google maps?!

 

[Sunday]

About the packages,
maybe "packages" should be "parts".
6 packages/parts = 2 hands, 2 feet, 1 torso, 1 head.
Surveillance camera in LRM's apartment building
and in Canada post would have showned if there were
6 "packages", right?

About the head tip,
LE could probably ask for LRM's searches on
different search engines, from the Internet Provider.
Maybe they can see if he zoomed in on a location on Google maps?!

So obvious yet I didn't think of that! Thank you!

 

[pannekoek]

At the moment I still find my initial thought that the tip came from a closeted (married) visitor or a young (closeted) prostitute of the cruising area that saw someting the most plausible. The significance of Canada Day may just lay in the fact that its a special family day and it makes you feel more part of the nation. Being with ones family and children on a day like this and knowing you might have information that is so important for anothers, Jin Luns family, might have been the last push the conscience of that person needed to come forward.

The fact that the tip was received on Canada Day suggest that its probably called in. It was a sunday and a national holiday. Its an assumption by me but I dont think that there were many or any at all LE working on the case, going through the evidence that day. I dont know how the postal system works in Canada but I also highly doubt they deliver mail on sundays/national holidays.

To me, an accomplish calling in the tip doesnt seem plausible. I might be able to entertain the thought that a person known to LM with some knowledge could have called in the tip, but not an actual accomplish. For someone to risk being exposed now would be a sign of ultimate stupidity... I know human nature always seems to be able to surprise me but I highly doubt it is the case...

I have left the possibility of an accomplish, a ‘Manny’ as not very plausible. Its what LM wants us to think and its been a big part of his constructed ‘virtual life story’. If you think logically it doesnt make sence. If there were a ‘Manny’ he would have acces to the internet to and would know that LM wrote about him, implicating him in crimes. The ‘constructed’ Manny persona and LM’s openly writing about Many just dont go along... IMHO...