Greece Greece - Ben Needham, 21 mos, Isle of Kos, 24 July 1991

[TheTruthWillOut]

Truth can you elaborate on this ? do you mean the timings ?

I had initially believed that the digging work was going on whilst the family and Michaelis were having lunch - and that Ben was running in and out and playing during this time.

However, I have later read that the digging had stopped BEFORE they had lunch - in which case how could the digger have caused an accident ?

Certainly, the digging work had stopped by the time Eddie went to check the digger, during the search for Ben - but who knows what time that was - was it at the beginning of the search, or was it after they had gone through the olive grove and down the lane - so maybe half an hour later.

One thing that did occur to me - if the digging work was still going on during the time the family were having lunch, then how could Christine have heard Ben playing outside - and hence, suddenly realised there was no sound from him.

It is a accumulation of reading the accounts from those there that day in blogs and passages from Kerry's book Ben and watching the documentaries that are on Youtube.

Then there is the press release from SYP that doesn't even mention Dino Barkas (that is all media). Stephen was the last person to see Ben and he was on the front porch area just outside the doors when he road off. Nobody there says there was a digger operating anywhere around that time. All accounts state that was earlier (mid morning from Eddie when a road was put in before Ben was there) and that the building work up the road ~75m away had stopped before they had lunch.

 

[shadowdancer]

Harsh though it may seem, Kerry is in exactly the same position as hundreds, probably thousands, of other mothers whose children have disappeared and are not found. I don't doubt many continue to hope against all hope, perhaps for the rest of their lives, but there's a point that they have to accept reality.

Kerry has had a much bigger bite of the investigative cherry than any other parent I can remember apart from Madeleine McCann's. The British and Greek police can no more dig up all of Kos looking for Ben than the British police can dig up all of Saddleworth Moor looking for Keith Bennet. Sad, and tough for the parents, but there it is.

I do understand what you are saying, but if it was one of my sons then I would search until the day I die, and nothing or nobody would stop me. Its a mother's love.

 

[zencompass]

Quote by: kpetrova_x: "I second that. Nothing would stop me searching even with all the roadblocks she comes across in the way of her answers. IMO money is not wasted if it is spent finding little ones like Ben. Or any missing person for that matter."


My heart is with your words, kpetrova x. I would never stop searching. I think of Jacob Wetterling's Mom and how she "promised" Jacob that she
would never give up.

God Bless Ben's family.

 

[DakotaMayi]

Quote by: kpetrova_x: "I second that. Nothing would stop me searching even with all the roadblocks she comes across in the way of her answers. IMO money is not wasted if it is spent finding little ones like Ben. Or any missing person for that matter."


My heart is with your words, kpetrova x. I would never stop searching. I think of Jacob Wetterling's Mom and how she "promised" Jacob that she
would never give up.

God Bless Ben's family.

Hi ZC, Bumping into you a lot today!

Absolutely, Jacob Wetterling's case is a great comparison. Although it ended with awful circumstances and I send all my love to the Wetterlings, their determination paid off and little Jacob is resting now.

 

[Elainera]

Harsh though it may seem, Kerry is in exactly the same position as hundreds, probably thousands, of other mothers whose children have disappeared and are not found. I don't doubt many continue to hope against all hope, perhaps for the rest of their lives, but there's a point that they have to accept reality.

Kerry has had a much bigger bite of the investigative cherry than any other parent I can remember apart from Madeleine McCann's. The British and Greek police can no more dig up all of Kos looking for Ben than the British police can dig up all of Saddleworth Moor looking for Keith Bennet. Sad, and tough for the parents, but there it is.

bbm - but the reality is that they don't know. There is no proof for any scenario. That's the sad reality. You can't move on from a limbo.

I don't think anybody has the right to tell a grieving parent they have to move on. They don't have to do anything imo.

 

[jessie]

bbm - but the reality is that they don't know. There is no proof for any scenario. That's the sad reality. You can't move on from a limbo.

I don't think anybody has the right to tell a grieving parent they have to move on. They don't have to do anything imo.

With all my heart I second this ^^. There has been no proof at all in this case. What has been suggested is a 'possible' scenario, but

there are still other 'possible' scenarios, however unlikely they may seem.

When I read Kerry was warned to "prepare for the worst" from this dig my thought was that the "Worst" for her would be not finding

any trace of Ben.

Discovering his remains would at least bring an end to the despair and anguish she has endured from 25 years of not knowing. I don't think

this recent search will bring her any peace of mind. My heart goes out to her.

 

[Mellowmelly]

I know it's not a nice thought but could it be possible that Dino cremated Bens remains somewhere ? If he was responsible for his death albeit an accident, maybe he was too scared to own up and out of guilt gave Ben a ceremony of sorts ?
From what I have read he was a decent man apart from the accident , so he must of felt, guilt, shame, remorse. Does anybody know what the Greek tradition of laying thier loved ones to rest is ? The most common method I mean.
This could explain why no remains appear to have been found.

 

[Mellowmelly]

I also think the police should maybe look more closely at Dinos friend who came forward in the first place, he may know more about this than he's letting on.

 

[gregjrichards]

I don't know why the Daily Mirror has published the awful article from Dino's son who claims Kerry should be ashamed of herself for blaming his father. What does this achieve other than causing Kerry further distress? I won't post the article here as we are a victim friendly forum and I have nothing but heartfelt sympathy for Ben's family.

 

[gregjrichards]

I know it's not a nice thought but could it be possible that Dino cremated Bens remains somewhere ? If he was responsible for his death albeit an accident, maybe he was too scared to own up and out of guilt gave Ben a ceremony of sorts ?
From what I have read he was a decent man apart from the accident , so he must of felt, guilt, shame, remorse. Does anybody know what the Greek tradition of laying thier loved ones to rest is ? The most common method I mean.
This could explain why no remains appear to have been found.

This link contains useful info about funerals in Greece.

"Cremation
The Greek Orthodox Church currently forbids cremation as it considers it as being Blasphemous
to the body of man which is "the temple of the Holy Spirit".

However, according to a 2006 law, Orthodox Greeks, and anyone who dies in Greece, can
choose cremation as long as they have stated this in writing before their death or their
immediate relatives wish it.
A pre-condition for the cremation is the clear, unequivocal statement of the deceased, or their
relatives," that they wish to be cremated. HOWEVER as at January 2016, there are as yet NO
crematoria in Greece."

http://www.livingincrete.net/bereavement2.html

 

[Elainera]

I also think the police should maybe look more closely at Dinos friend who came forward in the first place, he may know more about this than he's letting on.

Yes I was thinking along those lines as well ... can't really share my thoughts here though as he's not a named suspect or POI.

 

[Mellowmelly]

This link contains useful info about funerals in Greece.

"Cremation
The Greek Orthodox Church currently forbids cremation as it considers it as being Blasphemous
to the body of man which is "the temple of the Holy Spirit".

However, according to a 2006 law, Orthodox Greeks, and anyone who dies in Greece, can
choose cremation as long as they have stated this in writing before their death or their
immediate relatives wish it.
A pre-condition for the cremation is the clear, unequivocal statement of the deceased, or their
relatives," that they wish to be cremated. HOWEVER as at January 2016, there are as yet NO
crematoria in Greece."

http://www.livingincrete.net/bereavement2.html

Thank gregjrichards, that's really interesting, I'm assuming then if Dino did accidentally kill Ben then he would probably have been more likely to bury his remains somewhere, hopefully somewhere nicer than a rubbish dump !
They should be looking at searching Dinos home/garden or places he liked to go.

 

[Mayfly]

I know it's not a nice thought but could it be possible that Dino cremated Bens remains somewhere ? If he was responsible for his death albeit an accident, maybe he was too scared to own up and out of guilt gave Ben a ceremony of sorts ?
From what I have read he was a decent man apart from the accident , so he must of felt, guilt, shame, remorse. Does anybody know what the Greek tradition of laying thier loved ones to rest is ? The most common method I mean.
This could explain why no remains appear to have been found.

I have been wondering much the same thing. If it was the shame of causing a child's death that led to this secret being kept for so long it seems strange to leave him in amongst the rubble like a piece of trash. I wonder if a priest would assist in a clandestine burial if he were told what had happened under the sanctity of confession.

 

[Mellowmelly]

Yes I was thinking along those lines as well ... can't really share my thoughts here though as he's not a named suspect or POI.

I was just thinking maybe he knows more but can't say out of loyalty to Dino and his family, I'm guessing the police must have thought he was telling all that he knew though, who knows.

 

[Mellowmelly]

I have been wondering much the same thing. If it was the shame of causing a child's death that led to this secret being kept for so long it seems strange to leave him in amongst the rubble like a piece of trash. I wonder if a priest would assist in a clandestine burial if he were told what had happened under the sanctity of confession.

Yes I think it's possible, especially if the priest was close to the family, I just can't see any person with a heart dumping a child's body in amongst loads of rubble.

 

[Pisces Cloud]

Would the guy who came forward really have done that if he'd been involved himself?

 

[Elainera]

Thank gregjrichards, that's really interesting, I'm assuming then if Dino did accidentally kill Ben then he would probably have been more likely to bury his remains somewhere, hopefully somewhere nicer than a rubbish dump !
They should be looking at searching Dinos home/garden or places he liked to go.

Yes! And re-interviewing anyone who lived with him at the time.

 

[DakotaMayi]

Definitely the interviewing but I'm not sure he would have buried Ben so close to him.

 

[jessie]

I can only state my own opinion but I do have reservations about Dino being in any way responsible, in particular knowingly being responsible and keeping this a secret.

Large machinery and little children are bad companions, a toddler playing around diggers and lorries on a building site does feel like an accident waiting to happen I know but there has yet to be any proof this happened to Ben.

 

[DakotaMayi]

I can only state my own opinion but I do have reservations about Dino being in any way responsible, in particular knowingly being responsible and keeping this a secret.

Large machinery and little children are bad companions, a toddler playing around diggers and lorries on a building site does feel like an accident waiting to happen I know but there has yet to be any proof this happened to Ben.

I know what you mean. I feel like if this is the case it would have been considered at the time with the diggers being in such close range if they were working at that time. But I suppose it could have been missed/not seemingly relevant at the time.