Identified! Greece - LIVING 4 year old, with Roma couple, Oct'13 - #1

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greenpalm said:
attachment.php





Top right is Lisa Irwin.
Center left is Nikola Sieczka
Lower left Fiona Chafoulais (apparently deceased?)

I know some of the others, most of them have been mentioned (and largely ruled out for one reason or another) up thread. Hang on, I'll match them up.

ETA: If you look at the very bottom of the image you can see part of Lisa Irwin's name written on the paper. Like it's pinned to this board too.
Click to expand...

Thanking u ! Youd make a fine detective

That photo was in the smile centre that appealed for maria.. thought it could be there 8 leads
 
txsvicki said:
I wonder if Greece or any of the neighboring countries collect dna from criminals? If any do, something might turn up if Maria has a bio relative in prison.
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There might be some ethical/legal reasons against doing that
 
zwiebel said:
Live report on BBC Radio from Farsala

Couple's own lawyer(?!) said she doubts their assertion that the woman they say gave them the child was Bulgarian. She says the coloring of the child makes her think they were misled by the mother.

A local townsman said he often saw Maria and her Roma 'mom' in the town square, where Maria would be begging, and he once asked 'mom' how she'd had such a blonde child. I didn't catch what her explanation was though, sorry.

ALL birth certificates issued in the past SIX years are going to be checked, Greek authorities have just announced, as well.

Ireland - police have just removed a small blonde child from a Roma family there, after a tip. They were not convinced by the story and documents the parents provided.

Will try and get some written links for above.[/QUOT
Ah, so now they are going to set it up as if this "mother" that gave them little Maria was the "real" kidnapper? Nice.......:facepalm:
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I think the US media likes the Baby Lisa angle because it gives the story an American connection. News coverage of major stories in other countries are very scarce here. A little blonde baby kidnapped out of her home in Missouri, transported thousands of miles away, to live with a Roma family...That's a great story. I think that if they find out the child was abducted from some European country (unless it's maybe Britain), you won't hear much about this case anymore in the US media. It's the whole "Could this girl be an American?" that the US media loves.

Also, if they do put Maria and her siblings up for adoption, does anyone else think the number who want to adopt Maria compared to the number who want to adopt one of her siblings is going to be significantly higher? I think it is going to disturb us greatly. IMO...Only the families who offer to adopt any of the children (okay, I will make an exception if some are much older) should be allowed to adopt, since it shows they are truly desperate for a child, not just want one who is blonde-haired, blue-eyed and is all over the news.

ETA: One more thing...I also think that there's a good chance Maria sees herself as Roma if she's been living with this family for as long as she can remember. So I feel that a family adopting her, who wasn't interested in any of her Roma siblings, could be very problematic, especially if they raise her to believe they "saved" her from them. I don't think she could be adopted by anyone with any sort of anti-Roma prejudice, by people who are going to "deprogram" her as soon as gets to their home.
 
Of course it would make a great story. Unbelievable in fact.
I don't think Maria could possibly be baby Lisa due to age differences.
As for adopting siblings, they might actually belong to the couple.
In which case it's very unlikely they can be put up for adoption.
 
jjenny said:
The child is removed because these people had no right to her. She isn't related to them and she isn't legally adopted. What exactly should one assume?
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I wouldn't assume she was kidnapped.




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jjenny said:
And how exactly did they get her? Why have they told so many stories?
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Maybe because they don't trust.

Can't say I blame them based on misconceptions, prejudice and ignorance I've read about, heard and seen with my own eyes.


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jjenny said:
And you they should be trusted? That despite the fact that the child doesn't belong to them?
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"Belong to them"?

A child isn't a tv.

I personally know many children living with people other than their birth parents with no legal documentation. It's not illegal. There could be many many good reasons for it.

I'm gonna take a wait and see position.


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gxm said:
All children. Any child that the "parents" don't have legal custody should be removed. IMO, it's completely unacceptable. No one should ever barter away or purchase a child like a puppy dog. They should go through proper legal channels for adoption. That anyone would condone how this little girl has been treated truly astounds and saddens me.
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How do you know she was bought or bartered? How exactly has she been treated and what exactly am I supposed to be so outraged about?


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Linda7NJ said:
"Belong to them"?

A child isn't a tv.

I personally know many children living with people other than their birth parents with no legal documentation. It's not illegal. There could be many many good reasons for it.

I'm gonna take a wait and see position.


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They reportedly had a birth certificate for her issued on a basis of false statements. The woman also reportedly had two identities and had 14 children registered to her under these two identities.
How is it not illegal? Do tell.
If I claim I had 14 kids to get welfare on them it's all well and good in your view?

"It has transpired from press reports that the case regarding the young Maria, where a certificate of birth was issued on the basis of false statements, is not an isolated case, but could possibly have occurred in other parts of the country,” Ms. Koutzamani said in her order."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/23/w...-birth-certificate-review-in-greece.html?_r=0
 
Well, I bet there are a lot of people buying hair coloring for their blonde children now. There is a situation in my first cousin's family where cousin's daughter had a biracial baby when she was around 17 years old, then had one more a year later. She got divorced, remarried a Caucasian man, had a baby by him. Her mother is raising her two oldest boys and I don't know the "status" of whether they were legally adopted by the grandmother. They are now in junior high and high school and very happy, well adjusted adolescents. Then there is the third boy. He was being cared for by his paternal grandmother at first, and now he is with a man and woman who are supposedly kin to the father. We (the family) have seen school pictures of him, but have not seen him since they divorced. My cousin (maternal grandfather) says he goes to visit the child every month or two. I do not think there was a legal adoption for this last child.

The mother has been in and out of mental hospitals and carries a diagnosis of schizophrenia. I have to wonder how many children in our country USA are being raised by people who are not the biological parents, but no legal adoption has ever occurred. I wonder at what point is it illegal to allow someone else to "have and raise" a child because of a situation where the mother is severely mentally ill? I have to hope there is a law in place to prevent people from just giving their biological child away.

I have no "inside knowledge" of the exact details of these three children being "given" to someone else to raise. I am pretty sure the first two are at least being "legally" cared for by maternal grandmother.

I did hear a few years ago that when the last baby was born, the oldest one asked his grandmother (who was raising him and his brother already), "Granny, if momma gets sick and does not take care of our baby brother, will you take him in?"
 
Elley Mae said:
Under the circumstances I would.
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What possible reason would they have to kidnap her?

IMO if she were kidnapped for nefarious reasons she wouldn't have been kept for so long or paraded about as if she were their own child. That alone leads credence to their assertion that they loved her like their own.


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jjenny said:
They reportedly had a birth certificate for her issued on a basis of false statements. The woman also reportedly had two identities and had 14 children registered to her under these two identities.
How is it not illegal? Do tell.
If I claim I had 14 kids to get welfare on them it's all well and good in your view?

"It has transpired from press reports that the case regarding the young Maria, where a certificate of birth was issued on the basis of false statements, is not an isolated case, but could possibly have occurred in other parts of the country,” Ms. Koutzamani said in her order."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/23/w...-birth-certificate-review-in-greece.html?_r=0
Click to expand...

Welfare fraud is common, yes it's a crime.

No one loses custody of their children because of it.




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Linda7NJ said:
What possible reason would they have to kidnap her?

IMO if she were kidnapped for nefarious reasons she wouldn't have been kept for so long or paraded about as if she were their own child. That alone leads credence to their assertion that they loved her like their own.


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Click to expand...

You really need it spelled out? Why do you think the woman had 14 children registered to her? Out of love for children?
 
jjenny said:
You really need it spelled out? Why do you think the woman had 14 children registered to her? Out of love for children?
Click to expand...

Yes, apparently I do need it spelled out.


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