Identified! Greece - LIVING 4 year old, with Roma couple, Oct'13 - #1

[AnjL]

Not so. Things like that can only be widespread if there is a sustainable population to support it to the point where it becomes self-propagating. There are enough people in your community not taking enough care with their kids, that allows the infestation to stay resident, even affecting those who do take care of their kids. Once the number of affected is reduced below a certain point, and as long as parents stay vigilant, the infestation will go away.

Obviously that is not the case in your community.

I disagree. I lived in a very well-to-do city, yet my kids would come home at least once every few years with a case of head lice. I think it has a lot to do with weather climate as well. Animals also carry head lice, so population and not taking care of kids really has nothing to do with it. That's like saying if I bathe my dog every day, fleas won't jump on him when he's out for his walk

 

[Marg from Oz]

Herald Sun AUSTRALIA

"Ssecond Maria found"
Reports from Dublin Ireland.

A 7 year old blonde girl found living with a roma family in Dublin. Suspicions were aroused as she does not resemble the family she was found with. Awaiting D.N.A. results

 

[InspectorGadget]

I never had head lice growing up, and never heard of anyone I knew having them either.

Stuff like that can only get spread around if you associate with endemic squalor.

Neither did I, but I grew up in England

Nits are very common in hot climates. And they prefer blondes!

 

[Cappuccino]

This thread is making my head itch. :scared:

 

[Brightbird]

Not so. Things like that can only be widespread if there is a sustainable population to support it to the point where it becomes self-propagating. There are enough people in your community not taking enough care with their kids, that allows the infestation to stay resident, even affecting those who do take care of their kids. Once the number of affected is reduced below a certain point, and as long as parents stay vigilant, the infestation will go away.

Obviously that is not the case in your community.

There is no correlation between how well a person takes care of their kids and whether they get head lice. That's the myth. Having head lice and doing nothing about it is a different story. I've never met anyone that didn't treat lice straight away. Lice just happen to be common in Australia.

Parents and schools can be extremely vigilant and treat lice immediately but that won't get rid of lice from the community. I live in a major city of 4 million people and it's laughable to suggest that a higher than average proportion of parents here don't take care of their kids. Go anywhere in Melbourne and across Australia and I guarantee head lice will be common in primary schools.

Children are already told not to share hats, hairbrushes etc. But unless they avoid all physical contact with one another, they will get head lice. End of story. It is managed to keep the rate of spread down, but near impossible to get rid of from a practical point of view. The cost of totally eradicating head lice would far outweigh the cost of children getting lice from time to time. It's a minor nuisance, not the bubonic plague. The attitude that head lice are a sign of filth and neglect is a bigger problem than the lice themselves.

http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/lice/head/gen_info/faqs.html

Personal hygiene or cleanliness in the home or school has nothing to do with getting head lice.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-5-209040-Doc-dispels-common-myths-about-head-lice

“Personal hygiene and socioeconomic status have nothing to do with having or transmitting head lice. The head louse is an equal-opportunity pest.”

 

[Brightbird]

Nits are also very common in UK primary schools! I work in a nursery and there is always someone with nits! It only takes one parent to not bother treating their child and people get them over and over again! It's not always the poor families that don't bother treating either! They are definitely not associated with filth and squalor and I find that idea quite offensive!

Thankyou! Not bothering to treat them and getting them in the first place are very different. I'd dare say many very caring and attentive parents have simply not realised until it's too late as well. Hence the cycle continues.

So....Maria having head lice is not a big concern to me. If her "parents" didn't bother to ever check her or knew but chose not to treat it, well that's not acceptable.

 

[~n/t~]

Herald Sun AUSTRALIA

"Ssecond Maria found"
Reports from Dublin Ireland.

A 7 year old blonde girl found living with a roma family in Dublin. Suspicions were aroused as she does not resemble the family she was found with. Awaiting D.N.A. results

FYI. A separate thread was started for this little girl. Her parents freely submitted DNA samples so I'm guessing that's a good sign that she may be in fact their child.

 

[~n/t~]

Greek court orders probe of birth certificates after blonde girl found with Roma duo


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...nde-girl-found-with-roma-duo/article15014309/


I'm not clear on this concept. What would birth certificates prove?

 

[greenpalm]

This picture .. is that lisa irwin top right?

Anyone know the rest?

Looks like her but can't say for sure. Where did the pictures come from?

Top right is Lisa Irwin.
Center left is Nikola Sieczka
Lower left Fiona Chafoulais (apparently deceased?)

I know some of the others, most of them have been mentioned (and largely ruled out for one reason or another) up thread. Hang on, I'll match them up.

ETA: If you look at the very bottom of the image you can see part of Lisa Irwin's name written on the paper. Like it's pinned to this board too.

 

[greenpalm]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/22/world/europe/greece-mystery-girl/

Greece mystery girl: Interpol says no DNA match in its database- Athens (CNN) -- The DNA of a girl authorities think may have been abducted by a Roma couple in Greece doesn't match any profile in Interpol's database, the international law enforcement agency said Tuesday.

This was posted and linked upthread, but I wanted to post it again. The girl is not a DNA match to any known missing girl in the Interpol database.

That rules out anyone we would find, right?

 

[Elley Mae]

On Monday the mayor of Athens ordered the suspension of three officials in charge of record-keeping. New parents have three months to declare their newborns. Investigators in the Greek capital found a large number of babies had been recently declared at or near the end of that deadline, raising concerns that some were multiple declarations to claim benefits.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/22/greek-prosecutor-birth-certificates-inquiry-maria

 

[~n/t~]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/22/world/europe/greece-mystery-girl/



This was posted and linked unthread, but I wanted to post it again. The girl is not a DNA match to any known missing girl in the Interpol database.

That rules out anyone we would find, right?

Not necessarily. I don't believe all missing children are listed in their database. For example. Lisa Irwin is not listed.

I'm not sure what their protocols are. Perhaps the child has to be assumed abducted and taken out of their birth country?

 

[gxm]

Her height and weight seem proportionate. At my daughters 6 1/2 year check up she was 45 inches tall and 42lbs. I believe she is around the 25th percentile.

Also my niece is 38lbs and about 41inches. She will be 6 in January.


Hollye

My grandson is 48" tall and 48lbs. He just turned 5 in August. IMO, she's tiny. But maybe girls are normally smaller. My granddaughter is very tiny too, and she turned 6 last April.

 

[greenpalm]

Not necessarily. I don't believe all missing children are listed in their database. For example. Lisa Irwin is not listed.

I'm not sure what their protocols are. Perhaps the child has to be assumed abducted and taken out of their birth country?

Thank you, that's what I was trying to sort out. It sounded like they were encouraging countries to combine those missing children data bases. Considering the widespread trafficking issues that seems like a good idea.

This article says they are going to share her DNA profile globally to try to find a match:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/greece-girl-maria-found-interpol-2481978

The organization is now asking all 190 member countries to check her DNA against their national databases.

Countries which do not have national DNA databases are being encouraged to add all their DNA records of missing children to Interpol's database.

 

[gxm]

If she's loved, fed etc... I can think of far worse situations all over the world.

Do you only find it offensive for blonde children or all children? So what exactly is the minimum standard? What do you suggest is done with them all? Do you believe all gypsy children should be removed?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

All children. Any child that the "parents" don't have legal custody should be removed. IMO, it's completely unacceptable. No one should ever barter away or purchase a child like a puppy dog. They should go through proper legal channels for adoption. That anyone would condone how this little girl has been treated truly astounds and saddens me.

 

[greenpalm]

My grandson is 48" tall and 48lbs. He just turned 5 in August. IMO, she's tiny. But maybe girls are normally smaller. My granddaughter is very tiny too, and she turned 6 last April.

My daughter turned 7 in August, She is 48" and 50 lbs. so quite tiny. Kids can vary quite a bit.


My oldest, my son, is 13. Talk about tiny! He weighs 60 lbs. he weighs less than his 10 year old brother. He's perfectly healthy. Sometimes kids are just small.

 

[greenpalm]

All children. Any child that the "parents" don't have legal custody should be removed. IMO, it's completely unacceptable. No one should ever barter away or purchase a child like a puppy dog. They should go through proper legal channels for adoption. That anyone would condone how this little girl has been treated truly astounds and saddens me.

I don't think we know that this girl, in particular, has been singled out to be mistreated among the Romas. We don't know that this girl was singled out and mistreated among the family she was living with.

We know that the family did not have legal custody.

But I have no evidence that she was treated differently than the other Roma children.

So, the question is: are we going to remove all of them? (All the children?)

Are we removing her because of how she was treated?

Are we removing her because she is not related by blood to them? (Even if her blood relations dumped her and these people took her in out of charity (albeit without going through proper channels))

Or are we removing her because she is blonde?

I showed her photo to my daughter. My daughter thought she looked sad too. I asked her to imagine the police showing up at the door, arresting us, and taking her to another home, even if it was nice and clean and had new toys, but they said, "I'm sorry those are not your parents. You can't live with them any more."

All I'm saying is that we don't know how she was treated. And in regards to their other illegal activity: we don't remove children from their parents for just any crime.

I think we need to investigate. I think we need to absolutely understand this situation.

But we definitely should not assume that she MUST be removed from this home where she was found.

 

[jjenny]

The child is removed because these people had no right to her. She isn't related to them and she isn't legally adopted. What exactly should one assume?

 

[dotr]

bbm.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/23/world/europe/europe-mystery-girls/
"A police statement said the couple "changed repeatedly their story about how they got the child."

"I used to see the mother, she would come to the square here to beg with the child," a man in the Larissa region told the Reuters news agency. "At one point, I had asked her how she got such a blond angel. She told me she had conceived it with a blond man."



"Prejudice and discrimination against the Roma are widespread in Greece and elsewhere in Europe, Amnesty International says.

Maria's case plays into old prejudices about them stealing children for forced labor.

Pardalis mentioned such a possibility, saying, "We don't have any other information if this girl was forced to work or to beg on streets."

The government news agency also raised "the possibility of the existence of a ring bringing pregnant women to Greece from Bulgaria and then taking their children for sale." The agency cited past reports that empty coffins had been found for infants who supposedly were stillborn to foreign mothers in Athens".

 

[txsvicki]

I wonder if Greece or any of the neighboring countries collect dna from criminals? If any do, something might turn up if Maria has a bio relative in prison.