Guatemala - Nancy Ng, 29, from Monterey Park CA, missing during Yoga Retreat, 19 Oct 2023

[RickshawFan]

Thank you, I was genuinely curious. If my daughter went to another country and went missing, would I have someone from a US agency acting as at least a liaison with the other country’s LE or am I all on my own?

The nearest embassy/consulate from your home country would guide you, so you wouldn’t have to figure out things totally on your own. Their personnel generally have feelers and contacts all over the country. That’s what they do.

But I think you could be looking at cases like the Holloway case and maybe the Patti Murad and Steve Keel cases to gauge limitations on what local services are provided. It’s generally not what families want!

I would not allow a minor son or daughter to be traveling in some of the countries in the world, except maybe with a group from an organization that's well-established. And if there’s any possibility that there will be drinking (e.g. something labeled “spring break”), absolutely categorically not.

 

[RickshawFan]

Just took a quick glance at TripAdvisor and there are 6 different kayak "experiences" on Lake Atitlàn alone. These experiences are where you meet up with a guide or group of people for a guided half to multiple day trip. I've done a bunch as a solo traveler, traditional boating in Tanzania, a tour of Tataouine in Tunisia, a tour of rooftop bars in Havana, a photoshoot tour in Cartagena, and so on. Airbnb offers experiences, you can also go on GetYourGuide.com, etc.

Anyway what I'm getting at is Nancy may well have been on a half day kayak excursion with complete strangers. That makes it considerably less shocking that her companion didn't search for her.

Ooh.. you’ve been some fun places.

I’ve done stuff like that, too, when I’ve traveled by myself. Many times.

And I agree with you…the others on a trip like that are in your orbit very temporarily, and only by proximity. They really don’t have any responsibility for your well-being.

 

[Centaurus]

The nearest embassy/consulate from your home country would guide you, so you wouldn’t have to figure out things totally on your own. Their personnel generally have feelers and contacts all over the country. That’s what they do.

But I think you could be looking at cases like the Holloway case and maybe the Patti Murad and Steve Keel cases to gauge limitations on what local services are provided. It’s generally not what families want!

I would not allow a minor son or daughter to be traveling in some of the countries in the world, except maybe with a group from an organization that's well-established. And if there’s any possibility that there will be drinking (e.g. something labeled “spring break”), absolutely categorically not.

Thank you for this, I appreciate it! Luckily all my kids are adults, but all three of them travel internationally often (typically from the US to the UK & Europe), and I'm your typical anxiety-ridden worrying mom.

 

[RickshawFan]

I am also just wondering why NN had no fear of the lake- had she swum in it the last time she was on a retreat? The not resurfacing ... would you jump into rough water and leave your kayak with no fear?

There are touristy photos of someone doing exactly that in a post ^^^. Perhaps when you’re on vacation you can get lulled into risk-taking.

And safety is in the eyes of the beholder. From the shore of that lake, I look at it, and it looks like it could get angry at any moment. I’m not sure I even swam off the dock or on a “beach” when I was there. I can’t imagine diving into it. But that’s just me. The same thoughts could be invitational to someone else.

 

[RickshawFan]

Thank you for this, I appreciate it! Luckily all my kids are adults, but all three of them travel internationally often (typically from the US to the UK & Europe), and I'm your typical anxiety-ridden worrying mom.

The other thing I could say about kids while on the travel topic…make sure they start learning foreign language in, like, kindergarten. It doesn’t matter which language. It wires their brain to learn other languages. And when you learn languages, you learn that most folks in the world have different ways of doing and thinking than you do.

IMO one reason we are coming across cases where expectations of local resources are way out of sync with reality is that Americans have little experience with realities other than their own. And then there are hard feelings when someone goes missing and the response doesn’t correspond to home.

[If you ever get a chance to hear a bilingual 4-year-old, it will be clear that little kids are perfectly capable of handling more than one language.]

About 2 days after we were at Lake Atitlán, my whole family got arrested in a small town in El Salvador. I kid you not. I was a fluent Spanish speaker. At least that gave me some sense of orientation in the universe in that moment. Without the language, I could have become long-term traumatically bewildered. So, yeah, language for kids!

 

[Centaurus]

The other thing I could say about kids while on the travel topic…make sure they start learning foreign language in, like, kindergarten. It doesn’t matter which language. It wires their brain to learn other languages. And when you learn languages, you learn that most folks in the world have different ways of doing and thinking than you do.

IMO one reason we are coming across cases where expectations of local resources are way out of sync with reality is that Americans have little experience with realities other than their own. And then there are hard feelings when someone goes missing and the response doesn’t correspond to home.

[If you ever get a chance to hear a bilingual 4-year-old, it will be clear that little kids are perfectly capable of handling more than one language.]

About 2 days after we were at Lake Atitlán, my whole family got arrested in a small town in El Salvador. I kid you not. I was a fluent Spanish speaker. At least that gave me some sense of orientation in the universe in that moment. Without the language, I could have become long-term traumatically bewildered. So, yeah, language for kids!

That would be scary being arrested in a foreign country!! Thank god you knew the language.

100% agree about language! All three of my kids know Spanish fluently (grew up in AZ and took daily Spanish classes at ASU Prep).

Thanks for your knowledge and input on this thread!

 

[Cedars]

I am also just wondering why NN had no fear of the lake- had she swum in it the last time she was on a retreat? The not resurfacing ... would you jump into rough water and leave your kayak with no fear?

Yes I agree it's odd. No one else wanted to do it. But it's something she talked about doing before she left on the trip. IMO, if it was something she'd imagined she had to cross off her bucket list, that could over-ride the more cautious part of her mind.

In an odd way, conquering your fears can be very exciting for some people. That's why they like to parachute, bungy jump, climb mountains. They have to challenge themselves to over-ride their natural instincts and apparently there's a sort of dopamine high after they've done it.

JMO

 

[slowpoke]

Just took a quick glance at TripAdvisor and there are 6 different kayak "experiences" on Lake Atitlàn alone. These experiences are where you meet up with a guide or group of people for a guided half to multiple day trip. I've done a bunch as a solo traveler, traditional boating in Tanzania, a tour of Tataouine in Tunisia, a tour of rooftop bars in Havana, a photoshoot tour in Cartagena, and so on. Airbnb offers experiences, you can also go on GetYourGuide.com, etc.

Anyway what I'm getting at is Nancy may well have been on a half day kayak excursion with complete strangers. That makes it considerably less shocking that her companion didn't search for her.

Seems she was with her yoga group on the water: link

“Kayak Guatemala rented the kayak to Ng and 9 others in her group. She said 8 of them returned and they could see Ng with a companion still kayaking, but eventually lost sight of them. Then they received a distress signal.

“I witnessed the survivor being ushered up the steps with the yoga instructor. She was clearly distressed and they didn’t say a word to us,” said owner Elaine Beal to Good Morning America.

The company says the group never paid and when they called them at the hotel, they learned the group had left.

“I just don’t understand them leaving, within 8 hours, 12 hours from the accident,” Beal said.”

 

[RickshawFan]

Yes I agree it's odd. No one else wanted to do it. But it's something she talked about doing before she left on the trip. IMO, if it was something she'd imagined she had to cross off her bucket list, that could over-ride the more cautious part of her mind.

In an odd way, conquering your fears can be very exciting for some people. That's why they like to parachute, bungy jump, climb mountains. They have to challenge themselves to over-ride their natural instincts and apparently there's a sort of dopamine high after they've done it.

JMO

Oh, did they all actively decide against it?

Also, do we have any idea whether she jumped out near shore, or whether she was out there in the middle somewhere?

 

[Cedars]

It’s unfortunate that they want to cast suspicion on the other victIm in this case. IMO they aren’t entitled to an explanation, and there may be a thousand reasons the 2nd victim won’t speak to them, including that she’s been visited with a terrible tragedy and is severely traumatized. It’s also possible she tried to dissuade her companion from jumping in and couldn’t.

I can’t see that other participants at the retreat would have much info on a terrible accident where they weren’t present.

I’m sure local LE did what was customary in the area. They will have followed up on many drownings in that lake in the past. I feel sorry for them, too, since they seem to be expected to perform tasks that are not in their protocol or familiar. It must be so disheartening.

I’m not sure that “official statements” belong in this context, except from authorities, and those seem to have been provided.

IMO Sad, but there’s no amount of “closure” in missing cases. There will always be questions.

I feel so sorry for the victim in this case, the surviving paddler.

Me too. We don't know her personality, but many young yoginis are very innocent and naive, they couldn't imagine such a thing would ever happen and will suffer post-traumatic stress from being in that situation. And then to be expected to face a hostile interrogation...

JMO

 

[RickshawFan]

Seems she was with her yoga group on the water: link

“Kayak Guatemala rented the kayak to Ng and 9 others in her group. She said 8 of them returned and they could see Ng with a companion still kayaking, but eventually lost sight of them. Then they received a distress signal.

“I witnessed the survivor being ushered up the steps with the yoga instructor. She was clearly distressed and they didn’t say a word to us,” said owner Elaine Beal to Good Morning America.

The company says the group never paid and when they called them at the hotel, they learned the group had left.

“I just don’t understand them leaving, within 8 hours, 12 hours from the accident,” Beal said.”

IMO they had no business not paying for rental kayaks, but is there anything wrong with them leaving? Their trip prolly ended.

Also, there was some kind of distress signal sent. That's interesting.... Cell phone maybe?

Do we know if the two women were on a tandem or individual kayaks?

 

[iamshadow21]

Seems she was with her yoga group on the water: link

“Kayak Guatemala rented the kayak to Ng and 9 others in her group. She said 8 of them returned and they could see Ng with a companion still kayaking, but eventually lost sight of them. Then they received a distress signal.

“I witnessed the survivor being ushered up the steps with the yoga instructor. She was clearly distressed and they didn’t say a word to us,” said owner Elaine Beal to Good Morning America.

The company says the group never paid and when they called them at the hotel, they learned the group had left.

“I just don’t understand them leaving, within 8 hours, 12 hours from the accident,” Beal said.”

I know this is in all likelihood an accident, <modsnip: not victim friendly> Who wouldn't stay and give all the information you could? I would, even if I missed my flight. And I am certainly not made of enough money for even a local yoga retreat. I'd stay because it's the right thing to do, concerning the life of another human being. Yoga is all about the connection, the 'yoke' to others and the world around us. <modsnip>

MOO

 

[Cedars]

Oh, did they all actively decide against it?

Also, do we have any idea whether she jumped out near shore, or whether she was out there in the middle somewhere?

I meant, no one else wanted to go out a mile from shore and swim, perhaps the companion was considering it, but she didn't go in.

People normally don't swim near shore, the lake is very polluted now (partly run off from the steep shoreline). So IMO, that was why they kayaked out, to find cleaner water.

JMO

 

[Cedars]

I know this is in all likelihood an accident, <modsnip: not victim friendly> Who wouldn't stay and give all the information you could? I would, even if I missed my flight. And I am certainly not made of enough money for even a local yoga retreat. I'd stay because it's the right thing to do, concerning the life of another human being. Yoga is all about the connection, the 'yoke' to others and the world around us. <modsnip>

MOO

I think you're forgetting, they knew exactly what had happened: she had drowned. It wasn't about saving her life, they knew she was dead.

ETA: and it would be strong emotions that would have caused them to flee back to the safety of their homes, not lack of emotion. Plus, having to check out of their rooms.

JMO

 

[10ofRods]

IMO they had no business not paying for rental kayaks, but is there anything wrong with them leaving? Their trip prolly ended.

Also, there was some kind of distress signal sent. That's interesting.... Cell phone maybe?

Do we know if the two women were on a tandem or individual kayaks?

Individual kayaks, because the articles say that the other person paddled back and NN"s kayak is found later.

I don't see how the other 6 people had any information besides "She went kayaking and we saw her disappear across the water with someone else in another kayak."

I'm not even sure authorities would spend a lot of time talking to these traumatized individuals, who saw nothing amiss and did not witness the drowning. But one person did witness the drowning and apparently tried an SOS of some kind.

I'm thinking cell phone as well. Or even Apple watch. That signal must have alerted searchers as to how to plan the search.

 

[iamshadow21]

I think you're forgetting, they knew exactly what had happened: she had drowned. It wasn't about saving her life, they knew she was dead.

ETA: and it would be syrong emotions that would havr caused them to flee back to the safety of their homes, not lack of emotion.

JMO

I hadn't forgotten that, actually. I'm not saying they could have saved her. But they had choices as to what actions they could take afterwards, and I'm finding it hard to not judge them for the ones they took.

MOO

 

[Cedars]

I hadn't forgotten that, actually. I'm not saying they could have saved her. But they had choices as to what actions they could take afterwards, and I'm finding it hard to not judge them for the ones they took.

MOO

IMO, everyone is just trying to deal with circumstances beyond their control, everyone is helpless.

Someone jumps in a lake, expecting it to be fun. But instead, their body fails to survive the experience.

<modsnip: personalizing>

JMO

 

[kaen]

Seems she was with her yoga group on the water: link

“Kayak Guatemala rented the kayak to Ng and 9 others in her group. She said 8 of them returned and they could see Ng with a companion still kayaking, but eventually lost sight of them. Then they received a distress signal.

“I witnessed the survivor being ushered up the steps with the yoga instructor. She was clearly distressed and they didn’t say a word to us,” said owner Elaine Beal to Good Morning America.

The company says the group never paid and when they called them at the hotel, they learned the group had left.

“I just don’t understand them leaving, within 8 hours, 12 hours from the accident,” Beal said.”

Nice to finally get some more details as to the situation. If my kayak companion/partner decided to jump out of their kayak and disappeared under the water while more than a couple of feet from me, I don't think that I would be able to do anything that would not endanger my life. If her partner was able to reach her, they might have been able to have her hang on to their kayak but without a life jacket in that temp of water, it would be hard to paddle with her hanging on. There would be no way to pull her onto the kayak without it flipping. If she was hanging on to the kayak being rescued and started to panic, the kayak might be flipped given the waves and potential frenzy.

It sounds like they were not within feet of each other. The other person could paddle to where she was last seen but that would not ensure that they would have found her if she had drowned, given that she would be submerged. Terrifying for NN and the partner kayaker. At some point, it is just understandable that the partner kayaker would want to ensure their own safety and get back to shore leaving professionals to rescuing. Water accidents with small boats are very complex.

It is sad all the way around.

 

[slowpoke]

The other kayaker/fellow yoga guest and yoga group may have been traumatized, but in life sometimes it calls for doing hard things because the situation calls for it. IMO

I feel it’s only natural and human of Nancy’s family to want to know as much information as possible to bring their Nancy home. As her sister said, their father is wondering if she could have been kidnapped, and keeps his phone close in case of a ransom call. That is because the information given is so scant. IMO
—-
The AsAmNews article said:
”The Guatemala Attorney General’s office says it has been unable to interview the woman last seen with Ng or the others because they have left the country. They are requesting international assistance.”

So, now I am confused that what has been attributed to the witness’ report (saying something like she wanted to swim, and that is when she drowns) was accurately the witness’ words.
IMO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Lee and Elaine Beal, the proprietors of Kayak Guatemala, spoke out amid the search for Ng, 29, who is feared to have drowned during an excursion on Lake Atitlán - although her family has since said they are struggling the accept this narrative.

The Beals said that ten people went out on the trip on October 19, but only eight returned with Ng and another woman seen paddling further into the body of water.

Eventually the woman returned to shore alone, but there was no sign of yoga enthusiast Ng who has not been seen since.

'No one in the group was interested in talking to anybody,' Lee told Good Morning America. 'It was almost like, immediately clamming up and like we are not going to say anything.'

Guatemalan authorities have struggled to locate the woman who was last with Nancy, or the tour guide as they left the country.

Guatemala kayak company owners say Nancy Ng yoga group 'clammed up'

Lee and Elaine Beal, owners of Kayak Guatemala, said the yoga group missing woman Nancy Ng was with before she vanished did not want to talk after she apparently drowned on Lake Atitlán.

www.dailymail.co.uk