Guatemala - Nancy Ng, 29, from Monterey Park CA, missing during Yoga Retreat, 19 Oct 2023

[slowpoke]

Family searching for answers after SoCal woman disappears in Guatemala

Nancy Ng of Monterey Park hasn't been seen since she went kayaking in Guatemala on Oct. 19.

abc7.com

according to the man helping with the search effort, witnesses are not talking:

"the leader of that effort says he is having trouble getting answers from witnesses"
"For me, this is now becoming a criminal investigation because the witnesses who were there at a material time are not being forthcoming," Sharpe told Eyewitness News."

i agree drowning seems most likely [as of right now], but if it was an accidental drowning, why wouldn't people talk? i suppose it's possible some of them may not be native English speakers so there could be a disconnect there, but i wouldn't expect that for all of them. Very weird and suspicious they aren't talking.

Also from the abc7 article:
“Chris Sharpe with Guatemala-based Black Wolf Helicopters says he's searched most of the lake without any clues to Nancy's disappearance. At this point, he's starting to question if she even really went kayaking at the lake.”
(bolded by me)

 

[10ofRods]

A traditional (Inuit) kayak has a kind of well for the pilot to sit in, and their legs are inside the kayak. These kayaks can also have a considerable cargo area below deck.

^https://www.viator.com/tours/Interlaken/Kayak-Tour-of-the-Turquoise-Lake-Brienz/d5011-64859P2

This type of kayak does not allow the person to easily become separated from their kayak. THe more popular type of kayak these days is the sit on top kayak, in which the person can become separated from their kayak and, in stronger currents, have a hard time catching up with it.


^Electronics, Cars, Fashion, Collectibles & More | eBay

In this advertisement for kayak rentals at Lake Atitlan, note that the person using the kayak is 1) not wearing a life jacket and 2) being encouraged through the advertisement to use the kayak as a diving platform:


^Guatemala - Kayaking Lake Atitlan With Stunning Volcano Views

This is a kind of Safety Third practice, IMO. Safety-oriented kayak use requires a life jacket at all times, and, sometimes a leash to the kayak (as one would do with a paddleboard or surfboard). Leashes are way less common on lakes, though (and many people decide not to use life jackets, esp. on lakes). This means they can be separated from their boat if they fall out or it turns over. Or if they deliberately jump off it to swim.

 

[10ofRods]

Also from the abc7 article:
“Chris Sharpe with Guatemala-based Black Wolf Helicopters says he's searched most of the lake without any clues to Nancy's disappearance. At this point, he's starting to question if she even really went kayaking at the lake.”
(bolded by me)

So does that mean...they never found the kayak? It should still be out there, floating, somewhere.

It sounds as if her group at the retreat came to the end of their stay (and that this happened near the end of the stay) and is no longer available to be questioned. Many people will refuse to be questioned, even by phone. For whatever reason. I have no idea what the retreat registration process was like or whether the retreat runners would give up private information about their clientele to a PI. Or what the process is for obtaining a subpoena in Guatemala.

IMO.

 

[MesquiteO21]

So does that mean...they never found the kayak? It should still be out there, floating, somewhere.

It sounds as if her group at the retreat came to the end of their stay (and that this happened near the end of the stay) and is no longer available to be questioned. Many people will refuse to be questioned, even by phone. For whatever reason. I have no idea what the retreat registration process was like or whether the retreat runners would give up private information about their clientele to a PI. Or what the process is for obtaining a subpoena in Guatemala.

IMO.

BBM
good point...i guess i was assuming the search team had reached out directly and witnesses refused to talk, but i guess the wording is kind of dubious. Returned home to SoCal could just mean they are simply not around in Guatemala and not that they've been contacted at their homes back in California. And then the "not forthcoming part" could just be that the witnesses themselves haven't contacted anyone, not that they were directly asked questions and refused.

i would be very interested to know which it is. because if they've been directly contacted and basically said "no comment" then i do find that suspicious. if they haven't been, i'd find that a little less suspicious just because they may not have known, as of yet, how to reach the PI, etc. or who even to reach out to.

 

[10ofRods]

Many people are not going to speak on the phone to a private investigator. How do we know they're for real? I'd want a message or phone call from the Retreat owners/runners encouraging me to call - I don't answer stranger phone numbers and don't know anyone who does. But I bet some people do - just not the group that had just come from that retreat.

Further, I assume all phone calls from an unknown party are phishing or up to no good. If it's outside my area code and my immediate area (per the phone company), I absolutely don't answer. But in general, I add the phone number of every business or physician or whatever that I allow to contact me.

And in the case of a missing comrade, from a brief retreat, I'd want the Yoga place to reach out, explain that someone might call, that they find the person trustworthy, etc. And I would be unhappy if Yoga retreater runners gave my phone number out to others.

I don't think I'm that unusual.

Do the others even know she's missing? Might they not be from all over the place?

IMO.

 

[waldojabba]

it sounds like after searching 95 percent ish of the lake that no solo unmanned kayak was found bobbing in the water.
So many questions but my main ones
- did she usually wear a life jacket -
- what kayaks did she have access to - any sign out process or were just there for retreat goers to use
- who said she was kayaking or was it an assumption
- might be more than appropriate for the company sponsoring the retreat to reach out to the others and explain the situation - it could save a life - have they mentioned how many attendees?
My own thought is even if I knew nothing but had been on the retreat I would come forward and share just that -
I am sure the fbi can get a list of attendees and encourage the attendees to be more forthcoming
Sounds like right now anything is possible
I applaud her family for all their efforts
All JMO

 

[Cedars]

it sounds like after searching 95 percent ish of the lake that no solo unmanned kayak was found bobbing in the water.
So many questions but my main ones
- did she usually wear a life jacket -
- what kayaks did she have access to - any sign out process or were just there for retreat goers to use
- who said she was kayaking or was it an assumption
- might be more than appropriate for the company sponsoring the retreat to reach out to the others and explain the situation - it could save a life - have they mentioned how many attendees?
My own thought is even if I knew nothing but had been on the retreat I would come forward and share just that -
I am sure the fbi can get a list of attendees and encourage the attendees to be more forthcoming
Sounds like right now anything is possible
I applaud her family for all their efforts
All JMO

Unfortunately, deaths at resorts etc are usually associated with lawsuits. Which, I assume, is why the resort is only going to speak to official investigators.

JMO

ETA I hope helicopter pilot got a translater and tracked down the leader of the previous search crew.

 

[waldojabba]

Unfortunately, deaths at resorts etc are usually associated with lawsuits. Which, I assume, is why the resort is only going to speak to official investigators.

JMO

ETA I hope helicopter pilot got a translater and tracked down the leader of the previous search crew.

My assumption, which seemingly may be incorrect, is that this was a yoga retreat put together in the states by a travel agency/group sponsor etc, that then booked a hotel to hold the retreat. Hence my thought to enlist the sponsor's help.
I have not seen the name of the hotel mentioned anywhere, nor have I seen the name of the retreat sponsor, if there was one mentioned.
What I may be missing is that this was perhaps a hotel sponsored retreat. If that is the case I understand and totally agree with your comment. The resort wants to minimize damage to it's reputation and pocketbook.
From the families point of view though, why aren't they mentioning where this all occured other than just
Lake Atittlian ?
There are many hotels in that area. Naming the hotel may jog another guest's memory if they actually name the hotel?
JMO

 

[waldojabba]

My assumption, which seemingly may be incorrect, is that this was a yoga retreat put together in the states by a travel agency/group sponsor etc, that then booked a hotel to hold the retreat. Hence my thought to enlist the sponsor's help.
I have not seen the name of the hotel mentioned anywhere, nor have I seen the name of the retreat sponsor, if there was one mentioned.
What I may be missing is that this was perhaps a hotel sponsored retreat. If that is the case I understand and totally agree with your comment. The resort wants to minimize damage to it's reputation and pocketbook.
From the families point of view though, why aren't they mentioning where this all occured other than just
Lake Atittlian ?
There are many hotels in that area. Naming the hotel may jog another guest's memory if they actually name the hotel?
JMO

Replying to myself - a quick walk around google shows quite a few yoga retreat centers in the vicinity of the Lake.
She must have been at one of these places ? So it sounds like a lot of strangers signing up for the same time period at a retreat but not neccesarily interacting otherwise - and likely not a roommate situation. JMO

 

[LadyL]

I believe the open kayak has an open top, meant for paddling on lakes where calm waters are the norm, not like the enclosed whitewater or oceangoing kayaks which might be the "real" kind meant (MOO). Wikipedia describes the different types of kayaks.

so many different kinds!

A traditional (Inuit) kayak has a kind of well for the pilot to sit in, and their legs are inside the kayak. These kayaks can also have a considerable cargo area below deck.
View attachment 458612
^https://www.viator.com/tours/Interlaken/Kayak-Tour-of-the-Turquoise-Lake-Brienz/d5011-64859P2

This type of kayak does not allow the person to easily become separated from their kayak. THe more popular type of kayak these days is the sit on top kayak, in which the person can become separated from their kayak and, in stronger currents, have a hard time catching up with it.

View attachment 458613
^Electronics, Cars, Fashion, Collectibles & More | eBay

In this advertisement for kayak rentals at Lake Atitlan, note that the person using the kayak is 1) not wearing a life jacket and 2) being encouraged through the advertisement to use the kayak as a diving platform:

View attachment 458614
^Guatemala - Kayaking Lake Atitlan With Stunning Volcano Views

This is a kind of Safety Third practice, IMO. Safety-oriented kayak use requires a life jacket at all times, and, sometimes a leash to the kayak (as one would do with a paddleboard or surfboard). Leashes are way less common on lakes, though (and many people decide not to use life jackets, esp. on lakes). This means they can be separated from their boat if they fall out or it turns over. Or if they deliberately jump off it to swim.

thank you both - very imformative
I've only been on a kayak once and it was a double and someone else was 'driving'

 

[10ofRods]

BBM
good point...i guess i was assuming the search team had reached out directly and witnesses refused to talk, but i guess the wording is kind of dubious. Returned home to SoCal could just mean they are simply not around in Guatemala and not that they've been contacted at their homes back in California. And then the "not forthcoming part" could just be that the witnesses themselves haven't contacted anyone, not that they were directly asked questions and refused.

i would be very interested to know which it is. because if they've been directly contacted and basically said "no comment" then i do find that suspicious. if they haven't been, i'd find that a little less suspicious just because they may not have known, as of yet, how to reach the PI, etc. or who even to reach out to.

Replying to myself - a quick walk around google shows quite a few yoga retreat centers in the vicinity of the Lake.
She must have been at one of these places ? So it sounds like a lot of strangers signing up for the same time period at a retreat but not neccesarily interacting otherwise - and likely not a roommate situation. JMO

Exactly. And all of those participants probably went home, ignored emails from the hotels, and went on with their lives.
It's a Yoga Vacation.

How many of you remember the people camping alongside you in your campground? Or staying in the same room at your hotel, after vacation?

We mostly forget those people. And in that matrix, single deaths can happen with very little remembering from others. Many a murder mystery exploits this fact - but it's real.

Either this young woman went out on a kayak or she didn't. The kayak should be found (but it could also be found and stolen by locals - common enough, IME). Resorts don't always keep good records of who takes what out of their kayak inventory. Personal safety is not a rubric for all resorts, IME.

The people in her "retreat" cohort all went home, rejuvenated (as she was on her prior trip) and maybe not all that attentive to the others in their group (which was an artificially created retreat group).

IMO

 

[Cedars]

My assumption, which seemingly may be incorrect, is that this was a yoga retreat put together in the states by a travel agency/group sponsor etc, that then booked a hotel to hold the retreat. Hence my thought to enlist the sponsor's help.
I have not seen the name of the hotel mentioned anywhere, nor have I seen the name of the retreat sponsor, if there was one mentioned.
What I may be missing is that this was perhaps a hotel sponsored retreat. If that is the case I understand and totally agree with your comment. The resort wants to minimize damage to it's reputation and pocketbook.
From the families point of view though, why aren't they mentioning where this all occured other than just
Lake Atittlian ?
There are many hotels in that area. Naming the hotel may jog another guest's memory if they actually name the hotel?
JMO

Most times an American yoga teacher coordinates with a resort that has yoga facilities, and that teacher's students sign up. They are usually in Mexico or Costa Rica, near big airports, so everyone handles their own travel on their own preferred schedule, getting to the resort by bus or taxi.

IMO Lake Atitlan is too far off the beaten track for that kind of retreat. It's 3 hours to the Lake from the airport, and then you have to deal with local transport: it's a place for backpackers, too rustic and foreign for the average yoga retreat.

So, yes, I think the attendees would have met up at the yoga centre.

JMO

 

[slowpoke]

Replying to myself - a quick walk around google shows quite a few yoga retreat centers in the vicinity of the Lake.
She must have been at one of these places ? So it sounds like a lot of strangers signing up for the same time period at a retreat but not neccesarily interacting otherwise - and likely not a roommate situation. JMO

The family said she went into the lake from the Santa Cruz side of the lake, which is on the north side. So, maybe her lodging was somewhere around there. It looks to be a very large lake.

Even if they were strangers, from what is written about her, the picture I get of her is soneone open and friendly. I think she probably engaged in talk with others easily, talking about anything and everything, and always with her big, memorable smile. Surely she got friendly with others.

Still, I keep thinking about her sister’s quote:

“She was saying it’s so beautiful,” Nicky recalled. “Last year, she woke up every morning just to spend some time there by herself without the group and this year was going to be more exciting because they had planned activities on the lake.”

If she enjoyed spending some time alone every morning without the group the prior year, maybe she did enjoy continuing that morning routine this time around, too, and went out kayaking alone.

Do we know what time of day she supposedly went kayaking?

JMO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Ng is seen in the video paddling in a kayak and waving to the camera. The video's release comes as Ng’s family clings to hope for her survival.

Guatemalan authorities report that a witness, who accompanied Nancy Ng, 29, on the kayak trip, claimed she wanted to swim farther into the lake and later drowned.

The FBI is raising questions about why the witness and Nancy's tour group waited 24 hours to report the alleged drowning.

Family Shares Final Video of Missing Woman from Guatemala Yoga Retreat, Sister Awaits Ransom Call

Authorities have released the latest video of Nancy Ng, who went missing during a Guatemala yoga retreat on Oct. 19, as the search continues.

themessenger.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1721870928391376986

 

[slowpoke]

Ng is seen in the video paddling in a kayak and waving to the camera. The video's release comes as Ng’s family clings to hope for her survival.

Guatemalan authorities report that a witness, who accompanied Nancy Ng, 29, on the kayak trip, claimed she wanted to swim farther into the lake and later drowned.

The FBI is raising questions about why the witness and Nancy's tour group waited 24 hours to report the alleged drowning.

Family Shares Final Video of Missing Woman from Guatemala Yoga Retreat, Sister Awaits Ransom Call

Authorities have released the latest video of Nancy Ng, who went missing during a Guatemala yoga retreat on Oct. 19, as the search continues.

themessenger.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1721870928391376986

from the article:
“GMA reports that while the kayak was recovered, there was no trace of Nancy.
Her family is pleading for witnesses who knew Nancy Ng on the trip to come forward.
“There are people that witnessed that happened within the group that have not come forward and we’re racking our brains as to why they wouldn’t want to come forward and help if nothing nefarious happened," her sister added.”

===
Finally, more clarity, and a witness report, although unnamed. This is what Nancy’s family was wanting and deserved to know. With the empty kayak being recovered, it does sound like she is in the lake. In the video, I think it said there reports she was last seen about a half mile from shore.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The yoga practitioner was last seen heading out on a kayaking trip on Lake Atitlán

FBI joins search for California yoga enthusiast Nancy Ng

The FBI has joined the search for missing California woman Nancy Ng, 29, who vanished during a kayaking trip on the remote Lake Atitlán in Guatemala.

www.dailymail.co.uk

*FBI for an accidental drowning?… no.

 

[tarabull]

I think its possible the silence is due to a Liability and Assumption of Risk Waiver likely signed by group participants...moo

 

[Centaurus]

The yoga practitioner was last seen heading out on a kayaking trip on Lake Atitlán

FBI joins search for California yoga enthusiast Nancy Ng

The FBI has joined the search for missing California woman Nancy Ng, 29, who vanished during a kayaking trip on the remote Lake Atitlán in Guatemala.

www.dailymail.co.uk

*FBI for an accidental drowning?… no.

Just curious, since it happened in Guatemala, which U.S. agency should be investigating?

 

[tlcya]

so this young lady went missing and presumably drowned on the 19th of October and an unnamed witness to that drowning has just now come forward? Am I understanding that correctly? and a Kayak that has been missing since that date has now suddenly been found?

yeah nothing suspicious here . . .

 

[musicaljoke]

Just curious, since it happened in Guatemala, which U.S. agency should be investigating?

Guatemala is a sovereign nation. Guatemalan law enforcement is handled by the National Civil Police of Guatemala.