Guatemala - Nancy Ng, 29, from Monterey Park CA, missing during Yoga Retreat, 19 Oct 2023

[Knox]

In the KTLA video, I counted 7 paddleboarders and three people in kayaks. One of the three was a man, so it's clear who Nancy's female partner was. Now that we know she's an attorney and did immediately sound an alarm for help, I feel better about Nancy's death truly being an accidental drowning

Video shows last time SoCal woman was seen alive before disappearing in Guatemala

Video of the last time a Southern California woman was seen alive before she disappeared on a yoga retreat in Guatemala was released as her family remains desperate for answers. The family of Nancy…

ktla.com

 

[RickshawFan]

Could she (and the rest of the party) have been doing hot yoga that morning, and when she went in the water, the thermal shock incapacitated her because her body hadn't yet readjusted? MOO

Very possibly they were doing hot yoga. But IMO simply from being in the sun so long, a dive into that cold water could knock you out. You’d bake out there.

I wouldn’t be surprised if hallucinations weren’t a factor, from sun exposure. And they likely weren’t covered with sunshirts, etc.

The sun is directly overhead right now, but this must be an issue all year there.

 

[RickshawFan]

Per the video linked above. There were ten people in the kayak group. Nancy and another woman ventured out, further away from the shore into the lake. Eight of the ten returned. Then, "eventually the other woman returned alone". The group left the retreat within 12 hours of Nancy's disappearance, without paying for the kayak rental or saying a word. No one in the group has spoken to the family.

As curious as the details are regarding the kayak group and their behavior. Unless other details are revealed - I don't see anything nefarious, as in someone in that group is responsible for her presumed drowning.

I would think authorities in the US will interview them and come up with a conclusion for the family?

Agree. There’s not a single sign that anything nefarious occurred.

IMO it’s not for US authorities to investigate incidents in other countries: not Germany, not Bulgaria, not South Africa, not Australia, not Ecuador, not Guatemala. The FBI is the Federal Bureau of Investigation, not the International Bureau of Investigation.

Also, I wouldn’t guess there are “official statements” in the US, when a drowning occurs.

The Kaitlin Armstrong case (currently in trial) gives a sense of how a US investigative officer interacts with local authorities. That one is in Costa Rica.

 

[RickshawFan]

Gray Hughes Investigates contacted Kayak Guatemala and got a lot of detail on the sequence of events that is very helpful.

The Kayak business owner says (andI am paraphrasing) it’s a straightforward case of drowning, and that bodies often do not resurface on this lake. The woman that was with Nancy is an attorney, and did paddle to the shoreline to give the alert (at house Paxanax?) and within 5 min boats went out to search.

The kayak owner said the yoga group left without the authorities’ permission.

Watch from around 48:00

I’m not sure why the group would have to get permission of “authorities” to leave the country. That sounds like a very American idea, to put a wider group of vacationing acquaintances in lockdown, especially when they didn’t even witness the event.

IMO it could be kept in mind that the group didn’t pay for their kayak rental (unclear who was supposed to pay, either individually or some contracted group), and this would rightly color a kayak rental owner’s experience of the whole event.

Personally, I think it’s heinous not to pay for a service you’ve used (e.g. kayak rental), but we don’t know who was in charge of paying. Usually, with an “experience” participants would book and pay with a third party in advance, and the third party would then pay the concessionaire. So, it might not be on any of the tourists in the group that the bill didn’t get paid.

 

[RickshawFan]

Even if nobody else is, even if you feel like the dork among the cool people, put on the life vest when in a boat. Seriously. Wear the vest.

jmo

Mine is a blazing bright yellow one. Makes you smile. Looks like sunshine or a yellow school bus, depending on your natural associations. I wanna be seen if I fall in a lake.

I have been known to take a cheap life preserver when going on a sunshine holiday at an obscure part of the world. Sometimes, on little boat trips, they aren’t obvious. I also wear it while snorkeling. It can be left with the locals when I leave.

But, yeah, they come inflatable these days. However, I’m not certain the little gas canisters that inflate them would be allowed on the plane.

 

[RickshawFan]

It would be interesting to know why the group left the country without paying for the use of the kayaks. Were they afraid of being detained? I can understand if it was an oversight because of the trauma of their group member drowning. But the whole world knows now that they didn't pay. How hard would it be to call in a credit card number? Their hasty exit makes them look suspicious and irresponsible even if they had done nothing wrong related to the drowning. Could the survivor have offered some legal advice telling them to get home asap and say nothing lest they be sued?

Maybe they did pay. In advance to the “experience” agent.

 

[RickshawFan]

At the HelpUsFindNancy IG page, there is a new post thanking the beautiful, kind locals who are complete strangers to the Ng family, but are out there searching daily.

There are several messages included, written to Nancy’s sister from these searchers, that have loving and encouraging words.

“If there’s a silver lining in all this,…”

I wish the rescue money was going to ethnic local communities. There would be enough for new roofs for a whole village there.

 

[slowpoke]

Maybe they did pay. In advance to the “experience” agent.

It’s in the Gray Hughes video. The yoga leader said he’d pay upon return:

 

[RickshawFan]

It’s in the Gray Hughes video. The yoga leader said he’d pay upon return:

View attachment 460567

Evidently, blame for all the yoga tourists for not paying for the kayaks is misplaced. It belongs to the person who collected the money. Odd that the kayak owners don't know the name of the group and the person who made the arrangements? I'd think there would be some kind of liability form for each of them, even if rudimentary? You lose our kayak/paddle, you pay?

IMO some very strange details in all of this that have nothing to do with the accident. I surmise the lake goddesses of Atitlán are reclaiming their turf from foreigners, showering karma (whatever the Mayan term) along those goddess-owned shores.

And the group started their kayak "experience" at peak sun. Blame the goddesses for the lake-bake, too. I'd bet too much sun played a role in this accident.

It sounds like Guatemalan "authorities" were very responsive. I actually think this is remarkable, given the location and the scarcity of local resources.

 

[musicaljoke]

It’s in the Gray Hughes video. The yoga leader said he’d pay upon return:

View attachment 460567

Usually a deposit is made, or a credit card number is left when the boats are taken from the premises.

 

[RickshawFan]

Usually a deposit is made, or a credit card number is left when the boats are taken from the premises.

Yes. Something is really off here that has nothing to do with individual participants not paying the bill. Too bad they're being tarred and feathered. They didn't deserve any of this IMO.

 

[slowpoke]

I’m not sure why the group would have to get permission of “authorities” to leave the country. That sounds like a very American idea, to put a wider group of vacationing acquaintances in lockdown, especially when they didn’t even witness the event.

bbm
Maybe because how would it be known the others in the group did not witness anything or be able to add any useful information if not questioned by the authorities.

Since they were not questioned by authorities, I‘m guessing the information for what happened has been pieced together by the kayak owners, hotel owner, and the Paxanax location that Nancy’s kayak companion alerted. MOO

 

[MsMarple]

Very possibly they were doing hot yoga. But IMO simply from being in the sun so long, a dive into that cold water could knock you out. You’d bake out there.

I wouldn’t be surprised if hallucinations weren’t a factor, from sun exposure. And they likely weren’t covered with sunshirts, etc.

The sun is directly overhead right now, but this must be an issue all year there.

Plus, the lake is at an elevation of 5k+ feet. Think about skiing in Colorado and how burnt your face can get that high up, even with sunscreen. The UV factor increases with every thousand feet increment.

Also, the sun reflecting off the water can do a real number on your eyes at any altitude. I have sunglasses with polarized lenses which help with acuity and eye fatigue. They’re old and kind of dorky but make such a difference.

Sadly, I wonder if the group was so involved in the yoga part of the trip that they kind of forgot about some simple safety steps.
All MOO

 

[Estrella]

I have lived in Guatemala for over 30 years, originally from the States, and have extensively dealt with the legal system here, children's rights. This is just a theory, but I would say that the yoga group was advised to leave the country rather than get entangled in a nightmare of bureaucracy and corruption with the Ministerio Publico, sort of the US version of a prosecutor's office. The MP investigates crimes, missing persons, deaths, and almost everything. And they can hold you and your passport until they finish investigating, and I kid you not, that can take months and months, and the US Embassy can do nothing. I assume the yoga group was from the States, so I hate to say this, but there are big dollar signs there to a very corrupt legal system. However, there is no reason for them to not talk to the FBI now that they are in the US.

 

[RickshawFan]

I have lived in Guatemala for over 30 years, originally from the States, and have extensively dealt with the legal system here, children's rights. This is just a theory, but I would say that the yoga group was advised to leave the country rather than get entangled in a nightmare of bureaucracy and corruption with the Ministerio Publico, sort of the US version of a prosecutor's office. The MP investigates crimes, missing persons, deaths, and almost everything. And they can hold you and your passport until they finish investigating, and I kid you not, that can take months and months, and the US Embassy can do nothing. I assume the yoga group was from the States, so I hate to say this, but there are big dollar signs there to a very corrupt legal system. However, there is no reason for them to not talk to the FBI now that they are in the US.

The US Embassy might even have told them to leave.
The FBI doesn't have jurisdiction. I suppose, if they wanted to, Guatemalan authorities could approach the US Embassy about contacting the visitors who left.

The only crime that seems to have occurred in this whole event is that the person who organized the "experience" didn't pay for kayak rental. That's it.

 

[Estrella]

The US Embassy might even have told them to leave.
The FBI doesn't have jurisdiction. I suppose, if they wanted to, Guatemalan authorities could approach the US Embassy about contacting the visitors who left.

The only crime that seems to have occurred in this whole event is that the person who organized the "experience" didn't pay for kayak rental. That's it.

The US Embassy gives little advice, but as a foreigner living here, one knows when to leave and the consequences, so maybe the hotel they were staying at told them to leave. Foreigners own most hotels, restaurants, and tourist stuff. I thought the FBI was investigating as well. No life jackets on the lake is crazy. I have often been in a large boat, and people wear life jackets. It's such a sad story.

 

[slowpoke]

I have lived in Guatemala for over 30 years, originally from the States, and have extensively dealt with the legal system here, children's rights. This is just a theory, but I would say that the yoga group was advised to leave the country rather than get entangled in a nightmare of bureaucracy and corruption with the Ministerio Publico, sort of the US version of a prosecutor's office. The MP investigates crimes, missing persons, deaths, and almost everything. And they can hold you and your passport until they finish investigating, and I kid you not, that can take months and months, and the US Embassy can do nothing. I assume the yoga group was from the States, so I hate to say this, but there are big dollar signs there to a very corrupt legal system. However, there is no reason for them to not talk to the FBI now that they are in the US.

Thank you for the enlightenment.

How very sad.

Then, this just adds another layer to the tragedy for the Ng family in their pursuit to find and bring their Nancy home.

 

[Estrella]

Thank you for the enlightenment.

How very sad.

Then, this just adds another layer to the tragedy for the Ng family in their pursuit to find and bring their Nancy home.

I think her being kidnapped would have been a much better scenario.

 

[RickshawFan]

The US Embassy gives little advice, but as a foreigner living here, one knows when to leave and the consequences, so maybe the hotel they were staying at told them to leave. Foreigners own most hotels, restaurants, and tourist stuff. I thought the FBI was investigating as well. No life jackets on the lake is crazy. I have often been in a large boat, and people wear life jackets. It's such a sad story.

Some embassies, IIRC, now have an FBI agent stationed there. Or, there might be one in a neighboring country. It seems unlikely there'd be a heavy FBI focus on this story, but I'd guess the local embassy-attached agent would activate exactly in a case like this. And the involvement may be very superficial: we don't know.

It looks good to throw the FBI word around: smoke and mirrors.

 

[slowpoke]

Latest update, HelpUsFindNancy IG

“Though no one saw Nancy get out of her kayak, witnesses and some retreat participants have given us a best-to-their-knowledge estimate of where they saw Nancy’s empty kayak. These accounts are naturally subjective and imperfect. But at the moment, it’s all we have.

We plan to pass this data along to an underwater search and recovery team for them to conduct a deep water search of the lake.”

(^ bolded by me)
====

Noting some participants reached out to Nancy’s family.

The latest update says family members plan on traveling to Guatemala when the deep water search is conducted.