Gun Control Debate #1

[Spellbound]

Here's where I have a problem with more gun control....was it legal to have a gun in the school? NO! If that law was broken, don't you think others are as well? Isn't murder already illegal? Yet that didn't stop the killing!
I sure don't have all the answers and based upon the most recent killings, I'm not sure there is an answer. I mean the daggone FBI was notified ,and yet THEY couldn't or didn't stop this. Local police has been very involved with this family, yet that didn't prevent this. This young man was receiving mental health help, yet when it probably was most needed, when his Mom died, he either wasn't support, wasn't taken to the appointments, refused to go, or whatever happened but the help stopped.

And just so we are clear, AR does NOT stand for assault rifle. I'm not sure I agree that people need them, but for ones that already own them, are you going door to door and confiscate them? Even if they are banned, there's so many already in the public domain that I don't know if it would do any good. And IMO, the illegals, you know the gangs, drug lords etc, already have them. So who is going to trace every one purchased in the US and confiscate each one? Only the legal law abiding citizens would be voluntarily turning them in. Those with criminal minds will continue to own them.

your points are well-taken. Sure, I would like to see some of these weapons banned, but doubt it could be accomplished.

I do believe this particular case has many facets that allowed this even to happen. Changes need to be made in many areas ... mental health, our legal enforcement agencies, gun safety, how we obtain guns, what can be allowed, etc.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

The second amendment doesn't preclude our states or federal government from enacting safety measures.

What do YOU want to happen, Ranch? What's your ideal scenario?

They don't have the equivalent of the Second Amendment. That's why they are able to have much stricter gun laws than the United States.

 

[Karinna]

Maybe a good start to the issue would be to place metal/gun detectors through the schools that kids have to walk through before entering the actual school itself? They do that at Airports anyway so why not have something similar at schools.

 

[RANCH]

If the added “hassles” is not worth their effort, then even law-abiding citizens apparently don’t even need that gun. Lives saved are worth the hassle.

JMO

I think that hassling law abiding citizens is ineffective in stopping gun violence.

Lives are saved when we target felons who break currant gun laws and when we decide that it's more important that the mentally ill don't have access to guns.

 

[Tillicum]

People NEED to start taking High School students seriously. NOW. Emotional pleas? Come on! These kids, young adults, just witnessed absolute horror. Your post is insulting.

If people like you took their pleas seriously, 17 kids who were murdered would be alive right now.

This is an outrage!

I'm not Ranch but I agree with his/her comment. I understand their anger. I sympathize with their devastation but these children don't understand the complexities involved in changing the current laws while staying within the constitutional rights of everyone. I don't think they realize that politicians can't just all vote yes regardless of what our constitution says. I hope that someone will help them to understand the magnitude of what they are asking for and how difficult it will be. Otherwise I'm afraid they will think that the government doesn't care and that's the last thing they need to feel right now.

 

[RANCH]

The second amendment doesn't preclude our states or federal government from enacting safety measures.

What do YOU want to happen, Ranch? What's your ideal scenario?

Did you read my first post of this thread yet? You'll find the answer to your question there.

 

[Spellbound]

No thanks.

I make up my own mind about the world by using my many years of experience that these young people lack.

You can throw all of the personal attacks at me that you want. It shows a lack of maturity.

Like these High School students gun protests. JMO

You aren’t alone in having “many years of experience”, but we should all be able to voice our opinions and then move on. Disagreeing does not always mean personal attacks. And throwing out that others are showing a lack of maturity is only made to incite anger and retorts. So who does it really fall on?

Can we try to not purposefully incite each other and have a reasonable discussion here? The latest school shooting has put a big spotlight on gun violence in our country and is a discusssion many of us feel a deep need to have. if one does not want to participate, they are welcome to avoid the discussion. Trying to get a thread shut down is really unfair and unnecessary.

JMO, of course

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I think that hassling law abiding citizens is ineffective in stopping gun violence.

Lives are saved when we target felons who break currant gun laws and when we decide that it's more important that the mentally ill don't have access to guns.

What do you propose as a solution, Ranch? When/why and how should the government force an American citizen with a diagnosed mental illness to involuntarily forfeit his second amendment rights?

Would the Feds have access outside of HIPPA regulations?

Who would be the mandatory reporters, if there are any?

Who would confiscate the weapons?

Where would those firearms go? For how long?

Where would the citizen go, if anywhere, and for how long?

How would they reinstate their second amendment rights?

 

[kimlynn]

The second amendment doesn't preclude our states or federal government from enacting safety measures.

What do YOU want to happen, Ranch? What's your ideal scenario?

I agree. It isn't an either or situation. People can still have their protections and we can have laws that protect us from weapons that can fire bullets at a rate that kill many in seconds and minutes.
Less is more in this case.IMO

 

[RANCH]

Maybe a good start to the issue would be to place metal/gun detectors through the schools that kids have to walk through before entering the actual school itself? They do that at Airports anyway so why not have something similar at schools.

I agree. It doesn't have a direct link to gun control but it's a valid solution to not relying solely on gun control to solve school shootings.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

You aren’t alone in having “many years of experience”, but we should all be able to voice our opinions and then move on. Disagreeing does not always mean personal attacks. And throwing out that others are showing a lack of maturity is only made to incite anger and retorts. So who does it really fall on?

Can we try to not purposefully incite each other and have a reasonable discussion here? The latest school shooting has put a big spotlight on gun violence in our country and is a discussion many of us feel a deep need to have. if one does not want to participate, they are welcome to avoid the discussion. Trying to get a thread shut down is really unfair and unnecessary.

JMO, of course

:tyou:

 

[Spellbound]

I'm not Ranch but I agree with his/her comment. I understand their anger. I sympathize with their devastation but these children don't understand the complexities involved in changing the current laws while staying within the constitutional rights of everyone. I don't think they realize that politicians can't just all vote yes regardless of what our constitution says. I hope that someone will help them to understand the magnitude of what they are asking for and how difficult it will be. Otherwise I'm afraid they will think that the government doesn't care and that's the last thing they need to feel right now.

Why can’t they “all vote yes” if they choose? Who is forcing them to do otherwise? They are elected to do what their communities need and expect, not what their donors want. Maybe our while government system needs a revamping?

I already think too many of our officials only think of their career, not the needs of the people they were voted to represent.

JMO

 

[RANCH]

What do you propose as a solution, Ranch? When/why and how should the government force an American citizen with a diagnosed mental illness to involuntarily forfeit his second amendment rights?

Would the Feds have access outside of HIPPA regulations?

Who would be the mandatory reporters, if there are any?

Who would confiscate the weapons?

Where would those firearms go? For how long?

Where would the citizen go, if anywhere, and for how long?

How would they reinstate their second amendment rights?

People who are found to have serious mental illness would be prohibited from buying or possessing any firearm forever.

LE would confiscate and destroy any guns except those that are historically valuable which would be donated to a qualified museum.

Mandatory reporters would be everyone with professionals determining if the individual is mentally ill. Simple.

 

[Tillicum]

Why can’t they “all vote yes” if they choose? Who is forcing them to do otherwise? They are elected to do what their communities need and expect, not what their donors want. Maybe our while government system needs a revamping?

I already think too many of our officials only think of their career, not the needs of the people they were voted to represent.

JMO

Any laws they would vote on have to abide by the constitution and there's a lot of grey area concerning rights of persons with mental health issues. I hope they can come up with a way but it will be difficult if not impossible and will take time.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

I'm with you, Poppy.

You're not immature and neither are those kids. They're begging us to help keep them from being slaughtered.

That's not an unreasonable request for any child to make of any adult, to be sure. They've already survived one mass shooting, and will carry their injuries (mental and physical) in some form for the rest of their lives. Our children shouldn't live in fear. The people who commit their lives to teaching, protecting and building them up shouldn't have to either.

It's not OK. Like I said earlier: Mass shootings aren't inevitable, change is.

:heartbeat:

It is too bad you won't take them more seriously. Many of these students spoke out about this monster in FL and no one took them seriously. Now 17 young adults are dead. People who don't take young people seriously are part of the problem. Obviously from this tragic event.

I don't care if you think I'm immature.

 

[Gardenista]

Why can’t they “all vote yes” if they choose? Who is forcing them to do otherwise? They are elected to do what their communities need and expect, not what their donors want. Maybe our while government system needs a revamping?

I already think too many of our officials only think of their career, not the needs of the people they were voted to represent.

JMO

They have to follow the Constitution

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

 

[matou]

At what age can one purchase a gun?

 

[Spellbound]

Any laws they would vote on have to abide by the constitution and there's a lot of grey area concerning rights of persons with mental health issues. I hope they can come up with a way but it will be difficult if not impossible and will take time.

Gotcha ... I was not quite following the whole line. Thanks,

 

[RANCH]

Why can’t they “all vote yes” if they choose? Who is forcing them to do otherwise? They are elected to do what their communities need and expect, not what their donors want. Maybe our while government system needs a revamping?

I already think too many of our officials only think of their career, not the needs of the people they were voted to represent.

JMO

In this political environment I don't see a consensus on even the most obvious things. Way too partisan.

Our system is the best in the world. People need to stop automatically voting for incumbents and try to educate themselves on who and what they vote for.

Stop with using your emotions to decide how to vote and instead use reasoning.

 

[Spellbound]

They have to follow the Constitution

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Yes, I understand that part. But the right to bear arms does not mean we need automatic weapons or assault rifles. They could easily make adjustments to how and what type are sold, or who can have them. Even toy guns now have to have an orange tip.


https://www.toyassociation.org/App_Themes/tia/pdfs/safety/ToyGunMarking-Reqs.pdf
The requirements of 15CFR 272 are found in Appendix “A”. In summary, they require toy guns to be transparent or have a predominant color chosen from an approved list or have a blaze orange band at the muzzle or.....