Gun Control Debate #3

[kittythehare]

Do you have any idea how many trillions of dollars that would cost?

Yep.
A fortune.
Be far cheaper to burn them.
Defense budget is off the Richter scale and military spending is already excessive.
.. a little budget juggling, a fair and open competition for installers...

None of it is more outrageous that rooms of children getting shot up.

Similar mechanisms could be provided on a mobile basis to all large gatherings..

 

[KaaBoom]

What makes no sense is saying sorry kids you're on your own, LE and teachers can't protect you.

But that is reality. They just keep dying and dying and dying and we can do nothing to stop it. Because we keep buying into the same riduless argument that the answer is more guns. As we get more guns we just get more shootings. Just the other day we had an armed teacher go berserk in a classroom. More armed teachers will just lead to more mentally unstable teachers shooting up schools. More violence. The answer is not more guns. We have been trying that for the last 40 years. That policy is a proven failure.

 

[bluesneakers]

IMO it would be a stretch. Considering the type of training and qualifications these teachers would have to go through, IMO a better comparison would be with LE officers.

http://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Lo...been-arming-teachers-for-years-475340013.html

"It's not just a situation where they have concealed carry, that's not nearly enough," Hairston said. "We expect our people to be able to shoot as well as the Ohio Highway Patrolmen."

Teachers undergo training at the Tactical Defense Institute in West Union, Ohio. They are also trained through FASTER, or Faculty/Administrator Safety Training and Emergency Response. It's a program designed specifically for educators.

Hairston says teachers also undergo scenario training. He says there are strict requirements to pass and teachers are tested at least twice a year.

"This is not like we just found folks that want to put a gun on and want to conceal carry," Hairston said. "That's just simply not enough."

He says it's also not for everyone.

"We spend a great deal of time studying our staff. It's not just having the physical ability to shoot a gun, it has to be people that are mentally stable that can handle high pressure situations and can make a differentiation or distinction between between someone who is just angry and someone who plans to come into the building and inflict harm on our students or staff," Hairston said.

Ooh, not a good comparison, IMO. How many times in the last year has a LEO shot and killed someone who was unarmed, or armed with a pen or phone? How many students carry pens and pencils in classrooms? What if a teacher feels threatened? Runs with scissors in the classroom suddenly warrants the death penalty. I don't think having teachers play cop is a good idea.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Do you have a link supporting this? What about a comparison of how many are on a waiting list vs. how many have stated they do not want to carry? Is there a chance some might not be permitted to carry or own weapons, but being a teacher would supersede those regulations? Thanks.

I do have a link supporting my statement. It's in thread 2.

 

[Tillicum]

Okay we get it some teachers are on board while others aren't.

I don't think it's a smart or safe idea--it doesn't matter to me how many want to do it! It impacts EVERYONE in the school. Again I'm curious about what teacher unions are saying?

If law enforcement doesn't have to protect citizens why are we expecting teachers to do so? Absurd!

JMO but when a teacher is already in the school with a good chance of being killed, he or she is more likely to defend him/herself and the students than an LE officer who is safe as long as he stays outside.

 

[bluesneakers]

But that is reality. They just keep dying and dying and dying and we can do nothing to stop it. Because we keep buying into the same riduless argument that the answer is more guns. As we get more guns we just get more shootings. Just the other day we had an armed teacher go berserk in a classroom. More armed teachers will just lead to more mentally unstable teachers shooting up schools. More violence. The answer is not more guns. We have been trying that for the last 40 years.

Big yes to all of that. More guns has never worked. As if someday there might be enough guns? We have enough. We need to try something else.

 

[flourish]

What people say when they can't back their argument - read the threads, it's in the threads. Lol I've linked some things two and three times.

I do have a link supporting my statement. It's in thread 2.

Lol you clever!
☺[emoji111](Just being silly)

 

[PrairieWind]

And there it is... If you aren't willing to be armed you don't want to defend and save children. That attitude is yet another reason teachers should not be armed.

There are other options besides don't care to protect and being armed. Ugh

Is the gun control crowd claiming the NRA values guns more than their children? Ridiculous! I am not saying teachers must be armed. But why can't those that want to be armed do it?

 

[bluesneakers]

I do have a link supporting my statement. It's in thread 2.

Really? If I go looking I'll find a link that answers all my questions?

 

[bluesneakers]

Is the gun control crowd claiming the NRA values guns more than their children? Ridiculous! I am not saying teachers must be armed. But why can't those that want to be armed do it?

NRA members have said it though.

 

[kittythehare]

Ooh, not a good comparison, IMO. How many times in the last year has a LEO shot and killed someone who was unarmed, or armed with a pen or phone? How many students carry pens and pencils in classrooms? What if a teacher feels threatened? Runs with scissors in the classroom suddenly warrants the death penalty. I don't think having teachers play cop is a good idea.

I agree with you.
Do teachers not sign up to observe a moral and ethical code of behaviour?
Are teachers not subject to mental illness in the same proportion as the rest of the population?
Can a teacher realistically kill one of the pupils in his care who possibly has JROTC training in marksmanship and is younger and with the advantage of surprise, can he do it technically and can he do it ethically?

Suppose student is pranking and ends up dead? Kids will do that.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Lol you clever!
☺[emoji111](Just being silly)

lol I've linked it so many times I ran out of times I can read it, now I need a subscription. I'll dig if someone is really interested.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Really? If I go looking I'll find a link that answers all my questions?

I'll find the link that backs my statement and I'll edit to add.

 

[Tillicum]

The Buckeye Firearms Association has provided training in armed response, crisis management, and emergency medical aid to 1,300 Ohio teachers and administrators since the horrific Sandy Hook school shooting.

“Today, we have a waiting list of over 2,000 teachers and staff from all over Ohio,” he said. “The demand is overrunning us at this point.”

http://nbc4i.com/2018/02/26/superintendent-upper-arlington-teachers-will-never-be-armed-with-guns/

 

[flourish]

Is the gun control crowd claiming the NRA values guns more than their children? Ridiculous! I am not saying teachers must be armed. But why can't those that want to be armed do it?

A) Their actions and attitudes speak for them very clearly.
B) Other people exist in the school besides the armed teachers. I've had colleagues who would likely pass whatever to be armed, but whom I would not feel safe working in the same building as if they were armed. The arming doesn't happen in a vacuum--it shouldn't just be them that makes the decision, because all school personnel will be impacted. They'll have to create protocols for the armed teachers and that would likely influence the protocols for the other teachers. I wouldn't want my teaching assistant armed at all, and I definitely don't want to be left alone with all the students (illegal) so my assistant can go blow someone away.

 

[bluesneakers]

I do have a link supporting my statement. It's in thread 2.

Ohio:

Superintendent: Upper Arlington teachers will never be armed with guns

“Arming teachers…arming teachers…I will say never, never,” he told the crowd who responded in boisterous applause.

Superintendent Imhoff said teachers with guns won’t keep kids safer. The Upper Arlington Police Chief agreed.

“It would take hours, years of training, to get teachers ready to carry in a school. There’s so many things that could go wrong,” said Police Chief Tracy Hahn.

Ohio educators support ban on weapons as path to student safety

"Teachers must be viewed as educators, not as security personnel," Cropper said. "Laws restricting access to guns and funding for mental health care are a place to start this important conversation."

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I'll find the link that backs my statement and I'll edit to add.

https://www.mydaytondailynews.com/n...f-but-don-tell-public/MjHYWX1vg26Enx1sfR1OXO/

Four years after bringing guns into Sidney City Schools, Superintendent John Scheu said more than 90 percent of the staff who first volunteered have stayed with the program. He said the district has no issue finding educators willing to bear arms.

“As a matter of fact, we have a waiting list,” Scheu said.

 

[KaaBoom]

Is the gun control crowd claiming the NRA values guns more than their children? Ridiculous! I am not saying teachers must be armed. But why can't those that want to be armed do it?

First the majority of Americans are not part of the gun culture. The majority of Americans don't own a gun and want nothing to do with them. Of the minority who believe in the Second Amendment, including teachers, most of them are smart enough not to get involved in a cockamamie plan to militarize the schools and turn them into a battleground with teachers and student shooting it out with each other. Without support, very few teachers will agree to be armed guards. So it will be unlikely to have any effect on school shootings.

 

[bluesneakers]

First the majority of Americans are not part of the gun culture. The majority of Americans don't own a gun and want nothing to do with them. Of the minority who believe in the Second Amendment, including teachers, most of them are smart enough not to get involved in a cockamamie plan to militarize the schools and turn them into a battleground with teachers and student shooting it out with each other. Without support, very few teachers will agree to be armed guards. So it will be unlikely to have any effect on school shootings.

Even if we arm teachers in the classroom, that would only be in public schools. Probably not include universities. Certainly not private colleges. I can't imagine a priest being asked to carry a weapon to class! And it does nothing to address the shootings that happen at movie theatres, churches, parties, work places, military bases, private homes, etc. Do we really want to put this much money and effort into something that might not work (might make things worse in fact) and does nothing to address our larger gun problem? The focus here is too narrow and the issue is just distracting.

I don't think so.

 

[Elley Mae]

Georgia lawmakers yank tax break for Delta after airline cuts ties with NRA

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...r-delta-after-airline-cuts-ties-with-nra.html