Gun Control Debate #3

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bobcat said:
Well then, the teachers who do not want to be armed, won't be armed. Simple. And, the kids won't know if a teacher is armed, or not. They call them "concealed" weapons for a reason.
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If they think there is a gun, they will try to find it.
 
kittythehare said:
Because it's just a band-aid on a damn when a tourniquet is what is required..

why NOT find the massive funding that would be required to build safe areas within classrooms?

why can that notion not be considered and funded?
It is simple common sense, requires no teachers, police or anybody to compromise their professions.

If police are to spend their break times at schools, the errant pupil/shooter will know about it.

Remember Cruz shot for only 6 minutes..


If people don't want to give up their guns then do something different to make the guns and the gun holders safe.

It requires change, sure.
It requires regulations, sure.
It requires an investment in resources and in legislation and policing and that is just as antithetical as an outright gun ban!!

That is why it is a waste of time to argue with gun lovers- they will do NOTHING to change even though so many people are dying needlessly.

It's not about classrooms or concerts, it's about the basic good training and earning a right to bear arms.. a 6 month training period, self funded.. gun safety at home.. all the stuff I suggested earlier is antithetical and it does not touch the 2A..

And I am told that the NRA cowboys would never stand for it!!

wEll well Well!!
The right to bear arms as recklessly as possible . #RBAR

This is just making a mockery of death by gun.

No more band aids.. Go big, go mega- why are people afraid to look for financing and regulation??

I cannot understand it.

Sure it will cost, but if people realised they do not need the NRA and if at the same time, the NRA, who are so arrogant that they probably never concealed their tracks, became investigated, Miss Marple and Sherlock Holmes style and were found to have an undue influence on government and a Mueller style investigation ensued.. it's all over for the wild west.. the cult becomes prohibited..
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If I undersand you correctly you think that school boards will use this program as an excuse not to implement more security. I would hope it is not used that way. In my town we have far less police patrolling than we have schools. That means that over half of those schools probably won't even see one stop in for a break. I do think it could be a good program, but it should not be taken into consideration when planning new security measures. Just something that can be in addition to, as an added layer.
 
bobcat said:
Well then, the teachers who do not want to be armed, won't be armed. Simple. And, the kids won't know if a teacher is armed, or not. They call them "concealed" weapons for a reason.
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You must not realize how nosy kids are, and how gossipy teachers are. Absolutely word would get out about a teacher's school guns, concealed or not.
 
District of Columbia v. Heller


District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), is a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held, in a 5–4 decision, that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home, and that Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban and requirement that lawfully-owned rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock" violated this guarantee. It was also clearly stated that the right to bear arms is not unlimited and that guns and gun ownership would continue to be regulated.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller
 
BayouBelle_LA said:
Fayetteville ISD OK's concealed handguns on campus for 'Guardian' teachers

http://www.kvue.com/article/news/lo...on-campus-for-guardian-teachers/269-523626544

Harvey said their goal was not to create vigilante teachers who would take unnecessary risks and escalate situations. Rather, this program was meant to be used in addition to their normal lockdown procedure but give certain teachers and staff an opportunity to fight back in the worst of situations.

"We have numerous folks on staff that have military backgrounds," Harvey said. "Everyone here believes in that sense of protectiveness of their kids. Each one of these kids are ours. We treat them like they're our own and we want to make sure we're prepared to do whatever it takes to protect them."

"The Guardians will be staff members who have passed each of the following requirements (and more):

1. Hand-selected staff members

2. Must have their License to Carry permit (LTC).

3. Must pass a psychological exam just like local law enforcement

4. Must qualify annually with the specific handgun they will carry.

5. Must be on the random drug testing list and pass all tests.

7. Must be trained in tactics for denying an intruder entry into a classroom or facility.

8. Must be approved by the school board."

Harvey added that "Guardians" will all be volunteers. There will be no requirement that any staff member or teacher be a part of this program.

He also added that those selected will never be revealed to the public or students. Part of their plan, Harvey said, was to keep the guns on campus hidden and their users anonymous.

This sounds like a good pro active plan and what I think some of us are advocating for.
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Of course! Free free free!

I have a friend whose adopted son has autism. His goal is to be LE. He went to school for that. He passed the MMPI . I have known this kid since he is about 6 and now he is in his 20’s.

He is hired as a security guard. His FB used to have lots of weapons and racist stuff. Someone must have told him to get it off of FB because I don’t see it anymore.

Fortunately, even with LE shortage, they must figure out he should not be one. But he has met the qualifications. I bet he would volunteer.
 
RANCH said:
I'm learning some interesting things about what teachers are capable and incapable of doing.

For some unknown reason they are incapable of learning how to use a gun to protect themselves and their students. They are incapable of stopping a school shooter who is armed with a rifle. They are incapable of stopping a student from taking their gun away and killing many students with it.

They are capable of spaying bullets wildly without care, killing innocent students. They are capable of abusing students who they are supposed to protect so none of them should be trusted to posses a gun in a classroom.

Teachers seem to have a lot problems that I never knew about.
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Teachers are required to be in charge of their students.

I would like to see people who advocate doing this volunteer in a school. They can have a day thar is prearranged for a lockdown drill.

They will know it is happening that day, but not when.

They will have to be teaching a lesson. There will have to be sometime spent though to learn the schedule in terms of who leaves the classroom to receive different services.

What is the policy for leaving the classroom for the bathroom? What is the policy for inappropriate behavior? Who has an IEP and what are the legalities in terms of behavior and accomodations ? Who has a 504 plan? What time does a student leave to go to the nurse for medication? If no nurse, who gives the medication?

Is there training needed to do an EPI pen? A nebulizer?

What are the policies if a child feels a meltdown coming on? Are there weighted vests or other things available for calming?

Are there,orders for protection? What are the steps in a lockdown? What if you are in the hallway because there is lunch or bathroom break or recess or class change? What if a child is supposed to be returning from their therapy with a special needs person any second? What if a child was at a dental appointment or doctor appointment and should be returning any second?

What if a child just vomited? What if a child has to go to the bathroom right now!

What else? I have not taught for awhile.

Oh yes. Pull down the shades. Lock the doors. Put the children in their safe location. Keep them calm.

Other than that?
 
That take on the issue is borderline offensive, imho. It appears that some people have missed the point entirely.

I don't see any logical or constructive reason to abase these teachers or imply they're unwilling to protect themselves or their students. Or that they're somehow incompetent (link to definition of incapable) because they don't conflate firepower with safety.

IMO

RANCH said:
I'm learning some interesting things about what teachers are capable and incapable of doing.

For some unknown reason they are incapable of learning how to use a gun to protect themselves and their students. They are incapable of stopping a school shooter who is armed with a rifle. They are incapable of stopping a student from taking their gun away and killing many students with it.

They are capable of spaying bullets wildly without care, killing innocent students. They are capable of abusing students who they are supposed to protect so none of them should be trusted to posses a gun in a classroom.

Teachers seem to have a lot problems that I never knew about.
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Sometimes the best path is the one that goes from A right to B, versus zig zagging left right and center. I feel like we're zig zagging with all of these grand ideas to arm teachers and post guards, when the straightforward path is to restrict access to the types of firearms that cause mass casualties.

There aren't very many people advocating for banning all guns. There are some asking for a full ban on these types of firearms. The majority want reasonable regulations and it's frustrating that NRA supporters are more concerned with losing what they perceive to be their rights than they are with ensuring something like these mass shootings is simply harder to pull off.

Why are we so reluctant to just make it harder? Legal, law-abiding gun owners can still have access to these firearms, there are ways to make sure that's not infringed upon, but we don't even seem willing to consider better regulations.
 
ohreally said:
If I undersand you correctly you think that school boards will use this program as an excuse not to implement more security. I would hope it is not used that way. In my town we have far less police patrolling than we have schools. That means that over half of those schools probably won't even see one stop in for a break. I do think it could be a good program, but it should not be taken into consideration when planning new security measures. Just something that can be in addition to, as an added layer.
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I think it should be a cold day in hell before LE are supposed to give up their duty free breaks. They are asked to do enough. Beyond cruel.
 
CARIIS said:
me too

realistically it is not gonna happen

that is there major hub

it would cost them billions to change that

it will be very interesting to see

they may take some city up on a dash

but vacating AT is not gonna happen

it is the soul of thier operation

financially aint gonna happen

i hope they hold tight

airlines are now making good money

eat it

stay

and say we are not supporting these machine gun grabbers

really? we wanna play ok fine were leaving so now you 179,000 unemployed people

hold tight that dude is not gonna do it !!

and if he does they are loaded now !!!

will be interesting !!

i love my aviation
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Minneapoils was the hub for NWA. And maybe for awhile after the merger.
 
EuTuCroquet? said:
That take on the issue is borderline offensive, imho. It appears that some people have missed the point entirely.

I don't see any logical or constructive reason to abase these teachers or imply they're unwilling to protect themselves or their students. Or that they're somehow incompetent (link to definition of incapable) because they don't conflate firepower with safety.

IMO
Click to expand...

I'm sorry you find my post offensive but what I wrote is what I'm getting from reading some of the posts on this thread. JMO
 
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