Gun Control Debate #3

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http://www.startribune.com/3-arrest...ices-found-at-vadnais-heights-home/475699813/

Arrested for unsecured firearms. Great!——————————————


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From the outside, the nondescript split-level house in a quiet Vadnais Heights neighborhood bears no resemblance to an armory. But when officers searched it Friday, they found dozens of firearms, thousands of rounds of ammunition and at least one explosive device.

Discovery of the weapons cache followed a call made Thursday to the Ramsey County Sheriff's Office by a parent whose child had allegedly been threatened by a 13-year-old boy who lives in the home. Both children are students at the Academy for Sciences & Agriculture in Vadnais Heights.

Officers with a search warrant entered the Desoto Street home and found the weapons, some of which were unsecured, and other materials, including a ballistic vest.

The boy was arrested, as were his parents, Christopher Stowe, 41, and Lisa Stowe, 40, who are being held on suspicion of negligent storage of firearms, a gross misdemeanor. Christopher also may face a felony weapons charge, and Lisa one of obstructing the legal process, authorities said Saturday.
 
BayouBelle_LA said:
I don't know that taxes are the answer. Something equivalent to a 'sin tax' would unfairly punish law abiding gun owners. A lot of people rely on hunting to feed their families and many of those aren't living off the government. Why should they be taxed extra.

imo
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That can be applied to so many things. Why can't a registration for genuine hunters who live off hunting give them an exemption for increased ammo rates? Still don't understand why a genuine hunter would need a 100 clip of ammo tbh. Surely safety for all would make the extra cost for the majority of gun holders is more important than the tax.
 
BayouBelle_LA said:
They shouldn't have to pay a sin tax whether they need 1 or 1000.
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Again, plenty of people pay tax on things they need to live. Think about the cost of say sanitary protection for women. They are an absolute necessity and yet are taxed and some are very high cost.*

*Not sure about sanitary protection taxes in the US but around the world women pay tax on them
 
human said:
How many bullets do people need? Do they need high capacity clips?

And everyone lives off of the govt, They use roads, I assume as well as the multitude of services govt provides.
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Exactly. People who hunt send their kids to schools I presume, or use the roads, or support service personnel being there, or LE. These things need paying for. And guns aren't a necessity. They are a choice. If you hunt to feed your family you choose to do that (not criticising btw) but it's a choice. And some may hunt for meat, but as has been mentioned in this thread, hunting is also a hobby. It's something you choose, I pay tax and registration on motorcycles, when I have one, and for fuel. I could argue I need a motorcycle for transportation, but it's still a hobby.
 
Blef said:
Again, plenty of people pay tax on things they need to live. Think about the cost of say sanitary protection for women. They are an absolute necessity and yet are taxed and some are very high cost.*

*Not sure about sanitary protection taxes in the US but around the world women pay tax on them
Click to expand...

Guns and ammo are already taxed. I think what some are proposing is an extra tax equivalent to a sin tax.
 
I haven't read this whole discussion on gun control so forgive me, I just want to share my thoughts being from the UK.

My family and I are regular visitors to your wonderful country, having visited many states previously we are due to go again in several weeks, so we do have a deep love and admiration for the US. However, the one thing that terrifies me when we visit, is guns, knowing I'm sat in a restaurant and the person sat a table nearby may be carrying a gun is just crazy to me, I try not to think about it but when I do I get very nervous and scared. We visited a shooting range a few years back and I hated it, every second of it! I only went because the rest of the family wanted to go, and I did hold and shoot a gun, I feel ashamed of the fact that I even held and shot one. I retreated to a waiting area whilst the rest of my family carried on. I know a lot of people who have visited the US and nearly all of them have been to a shooting range and they love it, I just don't get it!

I know it's the rights of each person in your country to own a gun, but I think the gun laws should be much tighter. Some people say it's not the gun who kills people, it's the person holding the gun...and yes that may be true to a certain degree, I feel that access to guns is too easy for people. If they didn't have access to guns, sure they may find another way, but it wouldn't be as easily accessible, or they may choose another weapon such as a knife, but a knife isn't going to kill so many people...a bomb could be used perhaps but I don't think there would be as many bombings as there are gun killings.

When you look at other countries they don't have the same issues with guns as they do in the US, so to me this suggests a massive problem that needs fixing and soon to avoid anymore pointless deaths of innocent people. We had a case here in the UK in 1996 Dunblane massacre where 16 very young children and 1 teacher was killed and resulted in gun laws being tightened which resulted in a huge drop in gun offences and I feel there are lessons that could be learned from that.

I hope I haven't offended anyone.
 
BayouBelle_LA said:
Guns and ammo are already taxed. I think what some are proposing is an extra tax equivalent to a sin tax.
Click to expand...

If it saved lives though, I can't see why people who genuinely respected guns and used them responsibly would object. Surely the greater good comes into this. I wonder how many gun holders are actual hunters for food, and who just have a gun for self defense, or because a bad guy has a gun (or is a bad guy with a gun)?
 
little_miss_smart said:
I haven't read this whole discussion on gun control so forgive me, I just want to share my thoughts being from the UK.

My family and I are regular visitors to your wonderful country, having visited many states previously we are due to go again in several weeks, so we do have a deep love and admiration for the US. However, the one thing that terrifies me when we visit, is guns, knowing I'm sat in a restaurant and the person sat a table nearby may be carrying a gun is just crazy to me, I try not to think about it but when I do I get very nervous and scared. We visited a shooting range a few years back and I hated it, every second of it! I only went because the rest of the family wanted to go, and I did hold and shoot a gun, I feel ashamed of the fact that I even held and shot one. I retreated to a waiting area whilst the rest of my family carried on. I know a lot of people who have visited the US and nearly all of them have been to a shooting range and they love it, I just don't get it!

I know it's the rights of each person in your country to own a gun, but I think the gun laws should be much tighter. Some people say it's not the gun who kills people, it's the person holding the gun...and yes that may be true to a certain degree, I feel that access to guns is too easy for people. If they didn't have access to guns, sure they may find another way, but it wouldn't be as easily accessible, or they may choose another weapon such as a knife, but a knife isn't going to kill so many people...a bomb could be used perhaps but I don't think there would be as many bombings as there are gun killings.

When you look at other countries they don't have the same issues with guns as they do in the US, so to me this suggests a massive problem that needs fixing and soon to avoid anymore pointless deaths of innocent people. We had a case here in the UK in 1996 Dunblane massacre where 16 very young children and 1 teacher was killed and resulted in gun laws being tightened which resulted in a huge drop in gun offences and I feel there are lessons that could be learned from that.

I hope I haven't offended anyone.
Click to expand...

I'm a Brit too, exiled in Canada. I understand your fears. When I saw police with guns on their hips here it scared me so much at first. It's just such an alien concept to us I guess.

BTW excellent post​
 
human said:
Police understand, as teachers do, that it is all about relationship building.

All jobs should be about relationship building. I imagine they have that kind of approach in the medical field as well.

You cannot beat a person and expect to get good results.

I remember in the olden days when we had a constable where we lived out in the country. He knew everyone. He knew how to talk to the kids and he knew the parents. He was respected because he treated everyone with respect.

It works
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Reminds me of this quote

In my early professional years I was asking the question: How can I treat, or cure, or change this person? Now I would phrase the question in this way: How can I provide a relationship which this person may use for his own personal growth?
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Carl Rogers
 
Blef said:
If it saved lives though, I can't see why people who genuinely respected guns and used them responsibly would object. Surely the greater good comes into this. I wonder how many gun holders are actual hunters for food, and who just have a gun for self defense, or because a bad guy has a gun (or is a bad guy with a gun)?
Click to expand...

Is it fair to overtax someone who's lost thousands of dollars from crop damage from deer? A fence will not keep deer out. If someone has a restraining order against someone would they be exempt from the higher tax? If a person has had more than 3 deer/vehicle collisions would they get a reduction on the tax?
 
little_miss_smart said:
I haven't read this whole discussion on gun control so forgive me, I just want to share my thoughts being from the UK.

My family and I are regular visitors to your wonderful country, having visited many states previously we are due to go again in several weeks, so we do have a deep love and admiration for the US. However, the one thing that terrifies me when we visit, is guns, knowing I'm sat in a restaurant and the person sat a table nearby may be carrying a gun is just crazy to me, I try not to think about it but when I do I get very nervous and scared. We visited a shooting range a few years back and I hated it, every second of it! I only went because the rest of the family wanted to go, and I did hold and shoot a gun, I feel ashamed of the fact that I even held and shot one. I retreated to a waiting area whilst the rest of my family carried on. I know a lot of people who have visited the US and nearly all of them have been to a shooting range and they love it, I just don't get it!

I know it's the rights of each person in your country to own a gun, but I think the gun laws should be much tighter. Some people say it's not the gun who kills people, it's the person holding the gun...and yes that may be true to a certain degree, I feel that access to guns is too easy for people. If they didn't have access to guns, sure they may find another way, but it wouldn't be as easily accessible, or they may choose another weapon such as a knife, but a knife isn't going to kill so many people...a bomb could be used perhaps but I don't think there would be as many bombings as there are gun killings.

When you look at other countries they don't have the same issues with guns as they do in the US, so to me this suggests a massive problem that needs fixing and soon to avoid anymore pointless deaths of innocent people. We had a case here in the UK in 1996 Dunblane massacre where 16 very young children and 1 teacher was killed and resulted in gun laws being tightened which resulted in a huge drop in gun offences and I feel there are lessons that could be learned from that.

I hope I haven't offended anyone.
Click to expand...

I'm comfortable in my circle knowing that I can trust an armed citizen.

How's the crime rate in the UK these days. I know just a few years ago the UK was considered the crime capital of Europe. I wonder why that was since you have a limited amount of guns.

ETA https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...73/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html
 
Tillicum said:
Is it fair to overtax someone who's lost thousands of dollars from crop damage from deer? A fence will not keep deer out. If someone has a restraining order against someone would they be exempt from the higher tax? If a person has had more than 3 deer/vehicle collisions would they get a reduction on the tax?
Click to expand...

Like I already said, why can't a registry be set up so that people who genuinely hunt be exempt from an increased tax.
 
Blef said:
Like I already said, why can't a registry be set up so that people who genuinely hunt be exempt from an increased tax.
Click to expand...
Maybe how medical marijuana patients don't pay taxes at dispensaries while recreational users do.
 
BayouBelle_LA said:
I'm comfortable in my circle knowing that I can trust an armed citizen.

How's the crime rate in the UK these days. I know just a few years ago the UK was considered the crime capital of Europe. I wonder why that was since you have a limited amount of guns.

ETA https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...73/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html
Click to expand...

Crime covers everything from spitting in the street in the UK up to murder. If we are comparing apples and apples, which this thread is meant for, lets look at how many shooting deaths occurred in the UK compared to the US.
 
flourish said:
Maybe how medical marijuana patients don't pay taxes at dispensaries while recreational users do.
Click to expand...

Just a little off topic, but it seems harder to buy marijuana in the US, despite it having valid medical uses than it is to buy a gun. I also read somewhere that the government wants medical marijuana patients to give up their guns. May not be some states but I have read about a few

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article187082303.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-bc-us--medical-marijuana-guns-20180114-story.html

It seems their 2nd amendment rights don't seem to count
 
It happens here in the U.S., too.

Blef said:
Again, plenty of people pay tax on things they need to live. Think about the cost of say sanitary protection for women. They are an absolute necessity and yet are taxed and some are very high cost.*

*Not sure about sanitary protection taxes in the US but around the world women pay tax on them
Click to expand...
 
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