Hailey Dunn General Discussion #1

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When you delete something from an electronic device it is not actually deleted, all that happens is that the file pointers are removed, but the files are still there until they eventually get overwritten.

If there was such a program, LE would be all over that.

Whatever SA deleted, if he actually did that at all, would have been recovered from the phone. Further, there would be records with the phone company so deleting it would be futile. You will notice that LE make no mention of following up any of these avenues. It is unlikely that they would have not done that, so they probably did, but did not find anything incriminating.

Also, such programs need to be downloaded from somewhere, and there would be a record of that.

Since it is not a simple thing, it would have required planning long in advance, and there is no indication of anything like that.

Keep in mind that none of these people appear all that interested in computers beyond email and message boards. They dont even have a computer for goodness sakes. I think it is very unlikely that any of them have enough familiarity with computer systems to have credibly have done anything like that.

If you delete a picture, there are no records of it anywhere else. And I am not sure that small town PD had any way to retrieve it either. I think SA would have been able to delete a picture without it being recovered.
 
I don't believe that information came from LE. Remember, LE did a search of the grandmothers house for CP a few months on, and they cited the devices that contained *advertiser censored* of some sort. There was no CP in BD's house, and some suspected CP in the deleted space of the computer at the mothers house. An earlier cursory examination of the computer at the grandmothers house yielded a single non pornographic image similar some of the images on the mothers computer.

Unfortunately the link to the search warrant in the sticked section of the HD section here no longer works, so I can't see exactly what they said.

I think you may be mis-remembering the whole child *advertiser censored* situation. There was sketchy stuff found on SA's personal cellphone and on a thumb drive found in the house in Billy's dresser drawer.

The reason the X-Box isn't mentioned that much in the warrants/affidavits is that the police were well-aware of it from the beginning because that is what Hailey was playing with the last time her brother (and perhaps BD) saw her at 9 p.m. on the night before her disappearance.

I believe from reading the warrants again (see below) that LE had taken the X-Box and SA's phone as evidence before they ever came back with search warrants for other electronic devices.

Links to the Warrants:
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/image...page/nxd_media/dox/pdf/2011_01/Affidavit .PDF
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/image...edia/dox/pdf/2011_01/HaileyDunnAffidavits.PDF


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/25/ng.01.html
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session," in for Nancy Grace. We spoke with police minutes before airing this show tonight, and they are alleging to us that thousands of deviant acts have been found on a family computer in the Hailey Dunn case. We grew to know and love Hailey Dunn after Christmas this last year when she went missing. They`re also telling us that those deviant acts include child *advertiser censored* and bestiality.

I want to go out to Michael Board, reporter of WOAI Newstalk radio in San Antonio. Michael, you yourself have just gotten off the phone with police. What are they telling you?

MICHAEL BOARD, WOAI NEWSTALK RADIO (via telephone): Yes, this is the Mitchell County Sheriff`s Department here in Texas. And these images that we`re talking about, these were found on a computer in Shawn Adkins`s mother`s home, and also on a memory stick, one of these little portable memory sticks, in the home where Hailey actually lived. What they found on these, like you said, a little bit over 100,000 deviant pictures, child *advertiser censored*, bestiality.


http://www.ktxs.com/news/KTXS-EXCLU...se/-/14769632/14680886/-/is154tz/-/index.html
According to search warrant affidavits acquired Friday by KTXS through the Freedom of Information Act, a warrant used by law enforcement in Scurry County on Thursday was specifically intended to look for more child *advertiser censored* on computers, discs and other digital devices Adkins has been using.

The affidavits stated that *advertiser censored* has been found on a second computer that Adkins used ? and on his personal cell phone.

These findings were made before search warrants were executed Thursday, when law enforcement officers seized more devices.

The files containing the *advertiser censored* had been deleted but were recovered by law enforcement experts in computer and digital forensics.

According to the affidavit, law enforcement believes that Adkins was in possession of child *advertiser censored*, namely visual material like photographs and video footage.

The affidavit confirms earlier reports by KTXS that child *advertiser censored* was found on a computer at the home of Adkins' mother, where Adkins had access to the computer, and on a memory stick in the home of Hailey Dunn in Colorado City.

In the "slack space," or the area of the computer where items had been deleted, the FBI found images of child *advertiser censored* and other obscene images including adult *advertiser censored*, deviant sexual behavior and bestiality, according to the affidavit.

The affidavit details that pornographic images were found among deleted e-mail files on Adkins' cell phone and on a computer in the home of Renee Norwood, Adkins' grandmother.
 
When you delete something from an electronic device it is not actually deleted, all that happens is that the file pointers are removed, but the files are still there until they eventually get overwritten.

If there was such a program, LE would be all over that.

Whatever SA deleted, if he actually did that at all, would have been recovered from the phone. Further, there would be records with the phone company so deleting it would be futile. You will notice that LE make no mention of following up any of these avenues. It is unlikely that they would have not done that, so they probably did, but did not find anything incriminating.

Also, such programs need to be downloaded from somewhere, and there would be a record of that.

Since it is not a simple thing, it would have required planning long in advance, and there is no indication of anything like that.

Keep in mind that none of these people appear all that interested in computers beyond email and message boards. They dont even have a computer for goodness sakes. I think it is very unlikely that any of them have enough familiarity with computer systems to have credibly have done anything like that.

Bearing in mind that LE don't have to tell us anything how do you know what they have and haven't found? You don't :) As for not having computers I wouldn't be so sure about that either. Shawn had access to the one at his moms and Billie has a computer.
 
OK, I've been reading the discussion threads (1-15) and I have a few questions, theories and speculations. Not sure if anyone will be able to respond to the questions. Did SA have one or several of the Halloween type masks AT THE TIME Hailey went missing? Have these masks been located? Were they stored at Billie's or his mother's or grandmother's? I know he posted about receiving a horror style mask on a website in early January 2011 and that he had received the mask order very quickly. I also know I've seen photos of SA and his cousin wearing scary masks but which ones belong to SA and how many did he have? Did he order a new mask after Hailey went missing? Did he go to his mother's house to pick up a horror mask on Dec 27th after leaving his work and then go to terrorize Hailey and fulfill some kind of rape fantasy that was stewing in him? He had only been living at Hailey's for four months and there were tons of printed out true crime stories discovered in his and Billie's bedroom. Were these used as 'scripts' or 'scenarios' for bedroom use? I base this on the thousands of deviant sexual images found in the home. I'm 100% convinced Hailey was alive that morning and he went back to the house immediately to rape her since he knew Billie was at work and DD was out. JMO
 
OK, I've been reading the discussion threads (1-15) and I have a few questions, theories and speculations. Not sure if anyone will be able to respond to the questions. Did SA have one or several of the Halloween type masks AT THE TIME Hailey went missing? Have these masks been located? Were they stored at Billie's or his mother's or grandmother's? I know he posted about receiving a horror style mask on a website in early January 2011 and that he had received the mask order very quickly. I also know I've seen photos of SA and his cousin wearing scary masks but which ones belong to SA and how many did he have? Did he order a new mask after Hailey went missing? Did he go to his mother's house to pick up a horror mask on Dec 27th after leaving his work and then go to terrorize Hailey and fulfill some kind of rape fantasy that was stewing in him? He had only been living at Hailey's for four months and there were tons of printed out true crime stories discovered in his and Billie's bedroom. Were these used as 'scripts' or 'scenarios' for bedroom use? I base this on the thousands of deviant sexual images found in the home. I'm 100% convinced Hailey was alive that morning and he went back to the house immediately to rape her since he knew Billie was at work and DD was out. JMO

Firstly its not proven there were thousands of deviant images in the house. The other thing Billie had previously telephoned LE on Shawn the February to her house and it seems that he was living there then which was at least ten months before Hailey went missing. I disagree with your theory based on several reasons and absolutely believe she was killed Sunday night based on several reasons but IF it was true what would be your explanation of Billie being the spokesperson for the couple and continually changing her story and timeline and trying to make sure he didn't speak to people? what reasonable explanation is there for a innocent woman to protect the person LE have named in connection with her daughters disappearance and lie to them when they go looking for the person suspected of being involved?
 
Hmmm. I'm gonna check the affidavits on the case (released Jan 11th 2011, I think) about the deviant images. I think Shawn has info about Billie which she is ashamed about which links her to the *advertiser censored* images, etc. I think Shawn raped and killed Hailey. It makes perfect sense to me. He quit his job and went right back to the house again (cell phone pings). I can't get past that at all. What was "new" about the home in general? Shawn living there (4-10 months) whichever, it's still new. Also new is that he quit on the same day that Hailey supposedly disappears. I know....Billie is the person who sees Hailey at about 10 pm the night before, in her room.

The mask thing has me thinking...alot. He posts on the horror and mask site only days after Hailey goes missing. He admits that he received a mask and thanks the distributor just after posting about his fiance's missing daughter. It makes me think he is 'revisiting the event' and that a mask is part of what happened to Hailey. Receiving that new mask was likely sexually exciting to him.

Speculation: I have to wonder if BD and SA were part of a deviant sex group that involved horror and possibly rape fetish? Billie could have been feeding his desire. This is what SA could have on her, IMO. This type of scenario happened in Ontario just over the last New Years and a couple with rape fetish abducted and killed a young woman. They both had accounts online on a major fetish website and posted lots of incriminating info. I've looked for both BD and SA on some of these sites because of my suspicions. JMO

Off to find the affidavits.

EDIT:I see that Thoughtfox has posted the links on this page above.
 
Hmmm. I'm gonna check the affidavits on the case (released Jan 11th 2011, I think) about the deviant images. I think Shawn has info about Billie which she is ashamed about which links her to the *advertiser censored* images, etc. I think Shawn raped and killed Hailey. It makes perfect sense to me. He quit his job and went right back to the house again (cell phone pings). I can't get past that at all. What was "new" about the home in general? Shawn living there (4-10 months) whichever, it's still new. Also new is that he quit on the same day that Hailey supposedly disappears. I know....Billie is the person who sees Hailey at about 10 pm the night before, in her room.

The mask thing has me thinking...alot. He posts on the horror and mask site only days after Hailey goes missing. He admits that he received a mask and thanks the distributor just after posting about his fiance's missing daughter. It makes me think he is 'revisiting the event' and that a mask is part of what happened to Hailey. Receiving that new mask was likely sexually exciting to him.

Speculation: I have to wonder if BD and SA were part of a deviant sex group that involved horror and possibly rape fetish? Billie could have been feeding his desire. This is what SA could have on her, IMO. This type of scenario happened in Ontario just over the last New Years and a couple with rape fetish abducted and killed a young woman. They both had accounts online on a major fetish website and posted lots of incriminating info. I've looked for both BD and SA on some of these sites because of my suspicions. JMO

Off to find the affidavits.

EDIT:I see that Thoughtfox has posted the links on this page above.

The only problem is per Billie on facebook when she blurted out that Shawn in fact took her to work Monday morning after leaving work himself and when asked Shawn confirmed he took her to work that morning so by there words at least its not possible that Shawn killed Hailey when he returned home that morning. Yes Billie said she saw Hailey around 10 oclock but in a recent interview it sounded like she was saying the last time she saw her was at dinner. Its impossible to work anything out because a different day and its a different story.
 
If you delete a picture, there are no records of it anywhere else. And I am not sure that small town PD had any way to retrieve it either. I think SA would have been able to delete a picture without it being recovered.

You are wrong. The picture is still there on the media until it eventually gets overwritten. When you delete something on your computer/phone, all that happens is that the operating system removes the pointer to the data - the data is still there. The reason for that is it takes a moment to remove a few bytes of data but much longer to remove the entire file (so the OS doesnt bother doing that).

That is how the deleted pictures were found on the mothers computer for example.

Information can even be recovered AFTER it has been overwritten in some cases, allthough that requires more specialized equipment.

Edit: Plus - the phone company would have records of that stuff, and LE had the phone company records at the time of the affidavit, so if there was evidence of stuff being deleted, why did they not corrobrate that with evidence they actually had, which would have made for a much more compelling argument of their case?
 
I think you may be mis-remembering the whole child *advertiser censored* situation. There was sketchy stuff found on SA's personal cellphone and on a thumb drive found in the house in Billy's dresser drawer.

The reason the X-Box isn't mentioned that much in the warrants/affidavits is that the police were well-aware of it from the beginning because that is what Hailey was playing with the last time her brother (and perhaps BD) saw her at 9 p.m. on the night before her disappearance.

I believe from reading the warrants again (see below) that LE had taken the X-Box and SA's phone as evidence before they ever came back with search warrants for other electronic devices.

Links to the Warrants:
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/image...page/nxd_media/dox/pdf/2011_01/Affidavit .PDF
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/image...edia/dox/pdf/2011_01/HaileyDunnAffidavits.PDF


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/25/ng.01.html



http://www.ktxs.com/news/KTXS-EXCLU...se/-/14769632/14680886/-/is154tz/-/index.html

I am not misremembering the *advertiser censored* situation. Other than the comments attributed to the Sheriff, no other LE has claimed CP was on items owned by SA. Some of those did have *advertiser censored* on them, but it was not CP.

The LEO who actualy examined the devices made no mention of CP on those devices in the affidavit for the search of the GMs house, even though that information would have been highly relevant for the search warrant they were asking for. He only said that *advertiser censored* was found on devices associated with SA, in other words there was no CP.

Detective Alexander was later quoted as saying that there was no CP found on any devices from BD's residence.

The X-box was in possession of the police when they asked for the warrant to search the GM's house (for evidence of CP). They made no mention of the X-box as containing *advertiser censored*, so it did not.

Remember, the later search warrants were for a matter unrelated to HD, so all of those things would have been relevant.
 
Bearing in mind that LE don't have to tell us anything how do you know what they have and haven't found? You don't :) As for not having computers I wouldn't be so sure about that either. Shawn had access to the one at his moms and Billie has a computer.

They don't have to tell us what they did or didnt find, but they filed an affidavit for a search warrant. And in that they are supposed to include relevant information pertaining to why they believe they need a warrant. At the top of that list (in this case) would be evidence that SA was lying. If they were able to conclusively demonstrate that he said one thing but did another, that would be extremely incriminating for the purposes of the affidavit. There is no reason for them not to have done that, and if true it would strengthen their case.

But, apparently whatever was supposedly deleted was not incriminating or did not exist, if it did LE would have included it in the affidavit.
 
Hmmm. I'm gonna check the affidavits on the case (released Jan 11th 2011, I think) about the deviant images. I think Shawn has info about Billie which she is ashamed about which links her to the *advertiser censored* images, etc. I think Shawn raped and killed Hailey. It makes perfect sense to me. He quit his job and went right back to the house again (cell phone pings). I can't get past that at all. What was "new" about the home in general? Shawn living there (4-10 months) whichever, it's still new. Also new is that he quit on the same day that Hailey supposedly disappears. I know....Billie is the person who sees Hailey at about 10 pm the night before, in her room.

The mask thing has me thinking...alot. He posts on the horror and mask site only days after Hailey goes missing. He admits that he received a mask and thanks the distributor just after posting about his fiance's missing daughter. It makes me think he is 'revisiting the event' and that a mask is part of what happened to Hailey. Receiving that new mask was likely sexually exciting to him.

Speculation: I have to wonder if BD and SA were part of a deviant sex group that involved horror and possibly rape fetish? Billie could have been feeding his desire. This is what SA could have on her, IMO. This type of scenario happened in Ontario just over the last New Years and a couple with rape fetish abducted and killed a young woman. They both had accounts online on a major fetish website and posted lots of incriminating info. I've looked for both BD and SA on some of these sites because of my suspicions. JMO

Off to find the affidavits.

EDIT:I see that Thoughtfox has posted the links on this page above.

The problem with that is there doesn't appear to be "deviant" *advertiser censored* on the devices directly associated with SA, those were only found on the computer at them mothers house, where other individuals reside who are far more likely to have been the ones who downloaded that stuff.

There is no evidence at all that SA and/or BD were into some sort of deviant sexual lifestyle.

SA's movements on the day HD dissappeared are fairly well accounted for, at most he would have had 30 minutes maximum to have done anything and concealed the evidence so well that no one has found any trace of anything at all. That is not very likely.
 
The problem with that is there doesn't appear to be "deviant" *advertiser censored* on the devices directly associated with SA, those were only found on the computer at them mothers house, where other individuals reside who are far more likely to have been the ones who downloaded that stuff.

There is no evidence at all that SA and/or BD were into some sort of deviant sexual lifestyle.

SA's movements on the day HD dissappeared are fairly well accounted for, at most he would have had 30 minutes maximum to have done anything and concealed the evidence so well that no one has found any trace of anything at all. That is not very likely.

When you say theres no evidence at all I am curious how much have you researched it all? When it goes to court( hopefully it will) I do believe there will be some sort of "deviant sexual lifestyle and that is JMO.

As for only having thirty minutes to hide Hailey they had from Sunday night to Tuesday afternoon. That's plenty of time.
 
When you say theres no evidence at all I am curious how much have you researched it all? When it goes to court( hopefully it will) I do believe there will be some sort of "deviant sexual lifestyle and that is JMO.

As for only having thirty minutes to hide Hailey they had from Sunday night to Tuesday afternoon. That's plenty of time.

Evidence as in evidence known to us. There is none. All there is is speculation, but that is not evidence.

As for hiding HD, the discussion was about the events of that day.

There is reported evidence that HD was alive that day in the form of eye witness accounts and the text message, not to mention the implications of the earring affair. None of those in themselves might be definitive, but taken collectively we can conclude that she likely was alive that day.

There is zero evidence (at all) that she was dead the night before.

Why should a scenario with zero evidence have greater weight on the balance of probabilites than one with plenty of evidence? That is not logical.
 
Evidence as in evidence known to us. There is none. All there is is speculation, but that is not evidence.

As for hiding HD, the discussion was about the events of that day.

There is reported evidence that HD was alive that day in the form of eye witness accounts and the text message, not to mention the implications of the earring affair. None of those in themselves might be definitive, but taken collectively we can conclude that she likely was alive that day.

There is zero evidence (at all) that she was dead the night before.

Why should a scenario with zero evidence have greater weight on the balance of probabilites than one with plenty of evidence? That is not logical.

According to LE there is not one single credible eyewitness that she was alive on the Monday. As for the earrings that's been done to death and Clint and Naomi have been cleared of being involved. As for the text message there is no proof whatsoever Hailey sent that so collectively I personally can not conclude she was alive that day. From all that I have seen and heard the last twenty eight months there is far more likelihood what happened Sunday night IMO
 
When you delete something from an electronic device it is not actually deleted, all that happens is that the file pointers are removed, but the files are still there until they eventually get overwritten.

If there was such a program, LE would be all over that.

Whatever SA deleted, if he actually did that at all, would have been recovered from the phone. Further, there would be records with the phone company so deleting it would be futile. You will notice that LE make no mention of following up any of these avenues. It is unlikely that they would have not done that, so they probably did, but did not find anything incriminating.

Also, such programs need to be downloaded from somewhere, and there would be a record of that.

Since it is not a simple thing, it would have required planning long in advance, and there is no indication of anything like that.

Keep in mind that none of these people appear all that interested in computers beyond email and message boards. They dont even have a computer for goodness sakes. I think it is very unlikely that any of them have enough familiarity with computer systems to have credibly have done anything like that.

Thanks for all the technical information but I think that the point was SA deleted something (be it temporary or something the FBI can retrieve) sitting right there in the middle of an interview with LE, the subject of the interview is his lover's missing 13 year old girl. Now who does that????????
 
Xbox is portable.

The living room TV is probably a lot bigger than the one in her room, so would be more desirable.

There is nothing to indicate that Hailey preferred one tv over the other and there is nothing to indicate the tv in the living room was larger than the one she received for Christmas.
 
There is nothing to suggest that the phone ever left BD's house. Nothing at all.

I'm not aware that SA told his mother HD was missing before he last saw her. He might have the following day or the day after that but I doubt it was that day.

Other people would know if his story corroborated or not, not just LE. Certainly, LE have never contested that he was at his mother's house at that time. I think it is very likely that there are multiple people who can verify it, and that is the main reason why no further search warrants aimed at SA were carried out (beyond the *advertiser censored* nonsense - which IMO was a not so subtle attempt by LE to carry out searchs in an indirect way).

Why would LE need additional search warrants if they found out DB's cell phone pinged in Big Spring?

If the message had pinged out of Big Spring, LE would have been all over that in their affidavits, since they had all the phone routing information at that point. The fact that they said nothing speaks volumes IMO, in fact they didnt mention the text message at all, because it would poke a rather large hole in their case for getting a search warrant. Remember, the affidavits will only include INCRIMINATING information, it will NOT include information that points away.

Red by me.
Maybe LE doesn't tell the public every item of evidence they have.
 
You are wrong. The picture is still there on the media until it eventually gets overwritten. When you delete something on your computer/phone, all that happens is that the operating system removes the pointer to the data - the data is still there. The reason for that is it takes a moment to remove a few bytes of data but much longer to remove the entire file (so the OS doesnt bother doing that).

That is how the deleted pictures were found on the mothers computer for example.

Information can even be recovered AFTER it has been overwritten in some cases, allthough that requires more specialized equipment.

Edit: Plus - the phone company would have records of that stuff, and LE had the phone company records at the time of the affidavit, so if there was evidence of stuff being deleted, why did they not corrobrate that with evidence they actually had, which would have made for a much more compelling argument of their case?

I keep remembering that the cell phone messages and photos that were captured from the Caylee Anthony Case were only the ones that had not yet been deleted before LE confiscated the cell phones. LE was delighted that one of her friends (?), Amy Huizenga, had saved months worth of messages; IIRC, Cindy's had been deleted and were irretrievable.

I found this link that explains cell phone data retrieval is not like computers and not to expect that you can find anything once it's deleted on a cell phone unless it was saved to your SD card. ". . . Unfortunately, if the picture was saved to your handset and deleted by accident you will not be able to recover it. However, if you saved the photo to your SD card, you will be able to recover the deleted files.

Read more: Can Deleted Pictures Taken on a Cell Phone Be Retrieved? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_6465142_can-taken-cell-phone-retrieved_.html#ixzz2Pp55sVKr

Can you provide a link that supports your statement that it can be retrieved from a cell phone? Computers are different!
 
The hotel sounds like a motel. We don't know where their camera's where or what they recorded. According to CD he was shown the video, but didn't identify anyone. Why would he think he would be able to identify someone? That is a little wierd. Did he believe that he might be able to identify someone there?

It's a very small town. Maybe he was hoping he might recognize someone and that might lead to his daughter.

LE said nothing about the occupants of the room, even though they talked about dogs leading to it. And why did they take dogs to random locations, but not the route HD was alleged to have taken? That doesn't make sense, it is a strange thing to have done.

I think they probably did do what BD said (she was there and would have seen them doing it afterall), but Kaempfer was only partially in the loop and only got the end of the story, not the beginning.

BD lied to the police (who were looking for HER missing child). I would believe Kaempfer over BD any day.

One of the issues with a lot of these comments attributed to LE is that that many appear to be have been made not by the actual investigators, but some media liason who is telling information second or third hand (or worse), colored by their own opinions, and consequently much of it is not all that accurate.

Red by me.
Not many investigators FBI agents or Texas Rangers do their own press conferences.
 
They don't have to tell us what they did or didnt find, but they filed an affidavit for a search warrant. And in that they are supposed to include relevant information pertaining to why they believe they need a warrant. At the top of that list (in this case) would be evidence that SA was lying. If they were able to conclusively demonstrate that he said one thing but did another, that would be extremely incriminating for the purposes of the affidavit. There is no reason for them not to have done that, and if true it would strengthen their case.

But, apparently whatever was supposedly deleted was not incriminating or did not exist, if it did LE would have included it in the affidavit.

LE does not have to prove their case in an affidavit, nor do they have to present all the evidence they have. Simply enough to get the search warrant.
 
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