Halyna Hutchins Shot With Prop Gun - Alec Baldwin indicted & Hannah Gutierrez-Reed charged, 2021 #6

[mickey2942]

As I mentioned in my earlier post, isn’t pointing a gun at someone without personally checking it more than a “mistake”? It strikes me as particularly “willful,” according to your description, if the jury believes the armorer that AB was inattentive during gun safety training. Maybe I’m being too literal in reading and interpreting your comment…

“"Willful" conduct is generally described as demonstrating a stubborn determination and intention to do what one wants, regardless of the consequences. It a deliberate decision to ignore possible harm, as distinct from mere failure to exercise due care.”

Was AB just failing “to exercise due care” or was he “showing a stubborn determination to do what one wants” making “a deliberate decision to ignore possible harm” (arrogance)? I just have trouble seeing how a grown man, experienced with guns in movies, could make such a “mistake” as to point a gun at anyone without personally checking it.
JMO

I am sure that his defense will include that Halyna Hutchins told him where to point the weapon, and he was just following directions...

 

[Lilibet]

I am sure that his defense will include that Halyna Hutchins told him where to point the weapon, and he was just following directions...

I see your point. I guess my reply to that would be that he should never have pointed the gun without personally checking it before she told him where to point it. But I can see this is going to be a difficult case, even if it seems pretty obvious to me!

 

[Cool Cats]

As I mentioned in my earlier post, isn’t pointing a gun at someone without personally checking it more than a “mistake”? It strikes me as particularly “willful,” according to your description, if the jury believes the armorer that AB was inattentive during gun safety training. Maybe I’m being too literal in reading and interpreting your comment…

“"Willful" conduct is generally described as demonstrating a stubborn determination and intention to do what one wants, regardless of the consequences. It a deliberate decision to ignore possible harm, as distinct from mere failure to exercise due care.”

Was AB just failing “to exercise due care” or was he “showing a stubborn determination to do what one wants” making “a deliberate decision to ignore possible harm” (arrogance)? I just have trouble seeing how a grown man, experienced with guns in movies, could make such a “mistake” as to point a gun at anyone without personally checking it.
JMO

It is not up to the actor to personally check the gun but it is up to the actor to make sure that the Weapons Master or Armourer is right there on the set and has gone through the gun safety measures.

It takes a trained experienced gun operator to ensure gun safety. George Clooney says that "dummies are tricky because they look like real rounds."

According to the The Actors' Equity Association's guidelines, both Alex and Reed failed even just the most basic safety protocols on set.

My big question is - was it Reed's fault she was not on set? Did they proceed without her, not allowing her to do her job? It would not be her fault if she was never told that a gun was being used in that rehersal. I need to research this, I'm pretty sure she knew about it and used Covid protocol as the excuse she was absent.

But I want to know if she was ordered to stay off the set etc.... She absolutely needed to be on that set, her not being there is total negligence and they should throw the book at someone for this huge disgusting screw up.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/prop-guns-movie-sets-1.6221637

What are the rules for firearms on set?​

The Actors' Equity Association's guidelines state that....

The weapons master is required to be on set whenever a weapon is being used.

"Before each use, make sure the gun has been test-fired offstage, and then ask to test fire it yourself. Watch the prop master check the cylinders and barrel to be sure no foreign object or dummy bullet has become lodged inside." Further, "All loading of firearms must be done by the property master, armourer or experienced persons working under their direct supervision."

"Nowadays, all weapons are checked before your blanks are put into the weapon.… The blanks themselves are never loaded until the very last minute, when all crew is in position, so the armourer knows exactly where every member of the crew is so that no one's walking through any danger areas the armourer has set up," said armoury co-ordinator Sam Dormer.

Why would the gun have been pointing at the cinematographer?​

We don't know what happened on the set of Rust, but it is fairly common to have a gun pointed at the camera, and by extension the cinematographer, to get a certain angle.

"We've all seen the very famous shots in films where you get that dramatic effect of a gun being pointed at you, the audience, and of course, it's being pointed toward the camera," explained Steven Hall, a veteran second unit director and cinematographer who has worked on films like Fury and Thor: The Dark World.

"To minimize that, one would put a remote camera in that place, or at least, if someone does have to operate the camera, I'm normally protected by safety goggles, a safety visor and often a PERSPEX screen that withstands pretty much anything. Obviously, it wouldn't withstand a real shot from a gun, but it would certainly withstand a blank."

 

[Lilibet]

It is not up to the actor to personally check the gun but it is up to the actor to make sure that the Weapons Master or Armourer is right there on the set and has gone through the gun safety measures.

It takes a trained experienced gun operator to ensure gun safety. George Clooney says that "dummies are tricky because they look like real rounds."

According to the The Actors' Equity Association's guidelines, both Alex and Reed failed even just the most basic safety protocols on set.

My big question is - was it Reed's fault she was not on set? Did they proceed without her, not allowing her to do her job? It would not be her fault if she was never told that a gun was being used in that rehersal. I need to research this, I'm pretty sure she knew about it and used Covid protocol as the excuse she was absent.

But I want to know if she was ordered to stay off the set etc.... She absolutely needed to be on that set, her not being there is total negligence and they should throw the book at someone for this huge disgusting screw up.

It will be interesting to find out whether Reed was ordered to stay off the set or not. Either way, AB needed to insist that she be there. I’m not trying to throw AB under the bus, but the power difference between AB and Reed was huge. I don’t want to see her under the bus unfairly. I don’t envy the jury if it gets that far.

 

[mickey2942]

HGR had zero power. And she didn't seem to be respected much by Halls or AB. That could be why they didn't bother to follow protocol, because of her youth, and probably sexism.

The production sure wouldn't have been able to get an older man double as an "Armourer" and "Prop Assistant".

 

[Cool Cats]

It will be interesting to find out whether Reed was ordered to stay off the set or not. Either way, AB needed to insist that she be there. I’m not trying to throw AB under the bus, but the power difference between AB and Reed was huge. I don’t want to see her under the bus unfairly. I don’t envy the jury if it gets that far.

It will also be interesting to see if the prosecution has digital proof and witness testimony that would directly show that Alec was told about and did know about, the gun safety violations that had been occurring on set.

I think it was the DA who said that some producers are producers in name only and are not aware of problems on the set.

Alec was right on the set, as an actor, right in the thick of things. What he was specifically told about any issues regarding safety is going to matter to a jury I think.

'Rust' movie shooting report finds 'willful violations' on set | CNN

The crew on the set of the movie "Rust" "willfully violated" safety rules and "demonstrated plain indifference to employee safety" which led to the shooting death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, according to a report released Wednesday by New Mexico Environment Department's Occupational...

www.cnn.com

 

[10ofRods]

Where the loss of evidence is not known during the trial, as in Chacon, supra, and the evidence is material and its absence prejudicial to the defendant, the only remedy is a new trial incorporating the lost evidence once it is found. Where the loss is known prior to trial, there are two alternatives: Exclusion of all evidence which the lost evidence might have impeached, or admission with full disclosure of the loss and its relevance and import. The choice between these alternatives must be made by the trial court, depending on its assessment of materiality and prejudice. The fundamental interest at stake is assurance that justice is done, both to the defendant and to the public.

State v. Chouinard, 96 N.M. 658, 634 P.2d 680 (1981) | Caselaw Access Project

Full text of State v. Chouinard, 96 N.M. 658, 634 P.2d 680 (1981) from the Caselaw Access Project.

cite.case.law

Thank you. As some of us have been saying, it's a decision that will be made by the court and not a shady maneuver by lawyers or handwringing or unimportant.

The courts and the law have their ways. To me, it's a fairly big deal to have this issue, in this case. Not insurmountable, but the judge is going to have to decide if they believe a jury of regular people can understand the issues with the gun (it may just make the entire prosecution case look a different kind of way if the jury does not understand with "full disclosure" on their plate.

 

[10ofRods]

HGR had zero power. And she didn't seem to be respected much by Halls or AB. That could be why they didn't bother to follow protocol, because of her youth, and probably sexism.

The production sure wouldn't have been able to get an older man double as an "Armourer" and "Prop Assistant".

The man they interviewed said he would need two assistant armorers if he were to be the full time armorer. IMO. (The link is above on this thread but I don't have it on my mobile, so IMO the other armorer who wanted more money and wasn't hired said that).

And HGR was scolded for spending too much time being armorer, even though an experienced and expert armorer said it was a full time job for three.

The person doing the scolding, GP (Pickle) was not in charge of the entire production. I've never seen info on who, exactly, hired GP. The way the movie was structured, no one was in charge and that was deliberate. It should be illegal, IMO. There should be someone in charge. Oddly, when I attended film school back in the 80's, we were told "the director is ultimately in charge" but I guess that has changed...a lot.

IMO.

 

[Betty P]

The man they interviewed said he would need two assistant armorers if he were to be the full time armorer. IMO. (The link is above on this thread but I don't have it on my mobile, so IMO the other armorer who wanted more money and wasn't hired said that).

And HGR was scolded for spending too much time being armorer, even though an experienced and expert armorer said it was a full time job for three.

The person doing the scolding, GP (Pickle) was not in charge of the entire production. I've never seen info on who, exactly, hired GP. The way the movie was structured, no one was in charge and that was deliberate. It should be illegal, IMO. There should be someone in charge. Oddly, when I attended film school back in the 80's, we were told "the director is ultimately in charge" but I guess that has changed...a lot.

IMO.

IIRC, whomever was supervising her wasn't even on the set. She communicated with them by phone. Do you recall that, too?

 

[CGray123]

As I mentioned in my earlier post, isn’t pointing a gun at someone without personally checking it more than a “mistake”? It strikes me as particularly “willful,” according to your description, if the jury believes the armorer that AB was inattentive during gun safety training. Maybe I’m being too literal in reading and interpreting your comment…

“"Willful" conduct is generally described as demonstrating a stubborn determination and intention to do what one wants, regardless of the consequences. It a deliberate decision to ignore possible harm, as distinct from mere failure to exercise due care.”

Was AB just failing “to exercise due care” or was he “showing a stubborn determination to do what one wants” making “a deliberate decision to ignore possible harm” (arrogance)? I just have trouble seeing how a grown man, experienced with guns in movies, could make such a “mistake” as to point a gun at anyone without personally checking it.
JMO

I don't disagree with you. I emphatically agree that AM and his staff were negligent, and that he is both morally and legally responsible for HH's death. I am angry that he seems so eager to absolve himself and shift blame to others. I was never a fan, but at this point any respect I might have for him based on his success as an artist and entertainer, and any desire I might have to see him in a film are gone.

I think there's probable cause and the case will not be dismissed before trial, and the perspective you would bring as a juror is the prosecution's best hope for conviction. I suspect not every juror will be able to find AB guilty of manslaughter under the very high "willful disregard for human life" standard. They could probably find him guilty of another criminal charge like the one to which the assistant director pled guilty, but not manslaughter.

 

[Lilibet]

I don't disagree with you. I emphatically agree that AM and his staff were negligent, and that he is both morally and legally responsible for HH's death. I am angry that he seems so eager to absolve himself and shift blame to others. I was never a fan, but at this point any respect I might have for him based on his success as an artist and entertainer, and any desire I might have to see him in a film are gone.

I think there's probable cause and the case will not be dismissed before trial, and the perspective you would bring as a juror is the prosecution's best hope for conviction. I suspect not every juror will be able to find AB guilty of manslaughter under the very high "willful disregard for human life" standard. They could probably find him guilty of another criminal charge like the one to which the assistant director pled guilty, but not manslaughter.

I agree that it will be very difficult to find AB guilty of manslaughter unless there are twelve people on the jury with my perspective. Not likely, although NM jurors may surprise us. But either way, because of his blame-shifting, I think (hope) his acting career is over.

 

[clearskies1]

Victory for Alec Baldwin as Rust special prosecutor quits the case

Andrea Reeb has announced she is stepping down as special prosecutor in the trial of Alec Baldwin over the October 2021 Rust shooting.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[al66pine]

NM Involuntary Manslaughter Statute, 2021.
IIUC, this statute is the NM Invol M/S statute AB is charged under. Pls CORRECT ME, if I'm wrong. Please.

"Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice." [A. Voluntary Manslaughter]
"B. Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection."
"Whoever commits involuntary manslaughter is guilty of a fourth degree felony."

^ Source: Section 30-2-3 NMSA 1978,
<Chapter 30 - Criminal Offenses - NMOneSource.com>,
retrieved on 03/14/2023.

From link, some relevant ref's. N.B: some rulings (seemingly?) conflict w others. Read the linked ct opn's.
"ANNOTATIONS"
"III. INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER."
"A. IN GENERAL."
"Involuntary manslaughter may be committed by both unlawful and lawful acts...."
"Distinction between lawful and unlawful acts. — In distinguishing between unlawful and lawful acts, the statute applies the language, defined by the courts to mean criminal negligence, only to the lawful act portion of the statute....."
"Criminal negligence is not element of involuntary manslaughter by unlawful act under Subsection B, nor the negligence which is a part of Section 30-7-4 NMSA 1978 (relating to negligent use or handling of a weapon)...."

"Homicide by vehicle statute preempts manslaughter statute. — The specific homicide by vehicle statute, Section 66-8-101 NMSA 1978, preempts the involuntary manslaughter statute in unintentional vehicular homicide cases...
"Careless driving statute, Section 66-8-114 NMSA 1978, which requires a showing of only civil negligence, cannot be used as the basis for involuntary manslaughter. State v. Yarborough...."

"B. PROXIMATE CAUSE."
"Proximate cause requisite for conviction. — Unlawful act must constitute proximate cause of the homicide to warrant a conviction of involuntary manslaughter. State v. Seward, 1942-NMSC-002, 46 N.M. 84, 121 P.2d 145."

"Proximate cause not necessarily direct immediate cause. — The act of defendant must be a proximate cause of death but need not be the direct immediate cause; it is sufficient if the direct cause resulted naturally from the act of accused. State v. Fields, 1964-NMSC-230, 74 N.M. 559, 395 P.2d 908."

"Heedless or reckless disregard of others. — To establish heedlessness or reckless disregard of the right of others, a particular state of mind that comprehends evidence of an utter irresponsibility on the part of the defendant or of a conscious abandonment of any consideration for the safety of passengers must be established. State v. Hayes, 1966-NMSC-260, 77 N.M. 225, 421 P.2d 439."

"V. JURY INSTRUCTIONS."
"Criminal negligence instruction. — A showing of criminal negligence is required for a conviction of involuntary manslaughter, and it was fundamental error for the trial court to have not so instructed the jury. State v. Kirby, 1996-NMSC-069, 122 N.M. 609, 930 P.2d 144."

"The mens rea for involuntary manslaughter is criminal negligence. — An involuntary manslaughter jury instruction is proper only when the evidence presented at trial permits the jury to find the defendant had a mental state of criminal negligence when engaging in the act causing the victim’s death. State v. Henley, 2010-NMSC-039, 148 N.M. 359, 237 P.3d 103."

@CGray123

 

[sds71]

The special prosecutor in the "Rust" manslaughter case against actor Alec Baldwin stepped down Tuesday after Baldwin's attorneys argued that New Mexico's constitution barred her from serving in that role while being a state legislator.

‘Rust' Prosecutor Steps Down After Challenge From Alec Baldwin's Defense

Baldwin’s attorneys sought to disqualify the prosecutor, Andrea Reeb, because of her position as a state legislator.

4.nbcla.com

Alec Baldwin's special prosecutor steps down from 'Rust' manslaughter case, citing 'questions' about role as lawmaker

Alec Baldwin's special prosecutor Andrea Reeb resigned from her post on Tuesday evening, citing "questions" surrounding her role as a New Mexico GOP lawmaker.

lawandcrime.com

 

[deugirtni]

The special prosecutor in the "Rust" manslaughter case against actor Alec Baldwin stepped down Tuesday after Baldwin's attorneys argued that New Mexico's constitution barred her from serving in that role while being a state legislator.

‘Rust' Prosecutor Steps Down After Challenge From Alec Baldwin's Defense

Baldwin’s attorneys sought to disqualify the prosecutor, Andrea Reeb, because of her position as a state legislator.

4.nbcla.com

Alec Baldwin's special prosecutor steps down from 'Rust' manslaughter case, citing 'questions' about role as lawmaker

Alec Baldwin's special prosecutor Andrea Reeb resigned from her post on Tuesday evening, citing "questions" surrounding her role as a New Mexico GOP lawmaker.

lawandcrime.com

Seems like the DA's office is determined to keep shooting themselves in the feet, imo. :

Along with Reeb, Carmack-Altwies hired a spokesperson, Heather Brewer, specifically dedicated to answering "Rust" media inquiries. Brewer has made incendiary public comments, referring to Baldwin as a celebrity "with fancy attorneys," that have struck some lawyers as odd.

"Prosecutors have to walk a very fine line between what you can say publicly," said John Day, a local New Mexico lawyer. "You don't want to be accused of poisoning the jury pool ahead of time. And that certainly could be an issue here."

 

[DI_Isokawa]

Albuquerque coverage:

Special prosecutor steps down from the ‘Rust’ fatal shooting case

The special prosecutor in the “Rust” fatal movie shooting case announced Tuesday that she has stepped down and will not prosecute actor Alec Baldwin in the death of cinematographer Halyna

www.abqjournal.com

Local resident not amused:

Spend $300K on prosecuting real criminals

OPINION: Santa Fe DA should use Alec Baldwin prosecution money to go after violent offenders who are an actual threat to public safety.

www.abqjournal.com

 

[PrairieWind]

The prosecution here just seems to be making a lot of unforced errors. And they just can't seem to not talk to the media. They need to just keep quiet, and let their case do the talking.

 

[deugirtni]

Albuquerque coverage:

Special prosecutor steps down from the ‘Rust’ fatal shooting case

The special prosecutor in the “Rust” fatal movie shooting case announced Tuesday that she has stepped down and will not prosecute actor Alec Baldwin in the death of cinematographer Halyna

www.abqjournal.com

Local resident not amused:

Spend $300K on prosecuting real criminals

OPINION: Santa Fe DA should use Alec Baldwin prosecution money to go after violent offenders who are an actual threat to public safety.

www.abqjournal.com

That opinion piece is spot on, imho.

 

[deugirtni]

The prosecution here just seems to be making a lot of unforced errors. And they just can't seem to not talk to the media. They need to just keep quiet, and let their case do the talking.

Pretty sore losers too.

ETA: not to mention, they seem incapable of admitting their own errors in understanding their own laws, and instead of apologizing, they blame the accused's fancy dancy lawyers. How unprofessional and incompetent, imo.

 

[Betty P]

Albuquerque coverage:

Special prosecutor steps down from the ‘Rust’ fatal shooting case

The special prosecutor in the “Rust” fatal movie shooting case announced Tuesday that she has stepped down and will not prosecute actor Alec Baldwin in the death of cinematographer Halyna

www.abqjournal.com

Local resident not amused:

Spend $300K on prosecuting real criminals

OPINION: Santa Fe DA should use Alec Baldwin prosecution money to go after violent offenders who are an actual threat to public safety.

www.abqjournal.com

Yikes, she was planning to spend $600,000 on this case. Quote from the article:

(Carmack-Altwies could have prosecuted) … about 15 homicides at the amount (she was) given for the “Rust” prosecution. … In a state that often lacks resources, struggles with terrible violent crime, gang violence, drug and gun trafficking, and where poverty and homelessness are all-too-familiar sights, I would prefer the DA use the money to prosecute violent offenders that are an actual public safety risk. …

Seems some locals feel the same way. Some of these people are using this tragedy to boost their careers. None of the people involved in the tragedy are violent offenders or a public safety risk.