Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #3

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Soulmagent said:
There are lot of myths about buzzards, They often dont show up as early as people think they do. Their are two types in black vultures and Turkey vultures and they have different feeding styles. Also crows are at the crime scene first and Vultures get blamed.
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Not all bodies get attacked by vultures or whatever carrion birds or wild animals either. And not to the same extent. Could be that this body caught the eye of a flock or whatever, MH's did not.
 
RSC said:
I'm confused by this post. There were eyewitness accounts of the two of them together after video footage. What are you trying to say?
(Also, I don't think this thread is the right place for this...)
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That's what he does, unfortunately.

The fact is I would bet a lot of $ that LE has quite bit more evidence than we're aware of. Especially given the "intent to defile" charge. Now that she is found hopefully there is a great deal more.
 
4MYGUYS said:
Really? Check out the Alexis Murphy case. WE know NOTHING. There was enough found in his car and apt. for these charges, so I am guessing something of hers was found (sparkly top, going from MH's case). Video and witness statements of the two of them leaving Tempo, her condition before her encounter with him and after. on & on.
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They had video of Alexis and Randy in the same place at the same time and going the same direction. That is how they knew to Check RAT out ,not to mention Orange county probably was on the phones the minute the address of her last sighting was typed in the LE computers. I do not believe anything was reported to be found in his car.
 
Conductor71 said:
All we have seen so far (or some of us at least) is JM walking on opposite side of mall then walking along side HG Why would LE ask for video footage of HG and JM together after 1:40 am if they had that proof in the first place? I find it inconceivable that nothing would have appeared on Youtube. Equally as strange there are no witness accounts of anyone seeing them together after the mall footage. It is almost like they both vanished after that.

The charges stem from probable cause and from what I have read it is an easy standard to meet. Proving defilement is much higher burden of proof. Just because he maybe bought her drinks or had his arm around her does not show that with premeditation he abducted and defiled her. Her condition based on video or witness interpretation is not damning enough IMO even Longo had different interpretations quoted in the press.

I keep reading there is video footage of them leaving Tempo. Where is that? Also owner of Tempo issued statement that HG was not in that bar. Who does a jury believe?
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From the wording, I'm not sure that they have to prove actual "defilement," but rather the "intent" to defile. I found the excerpt below which helps to explain the charge.
http://www.rgmorganlaw.com/sexcrimes.html
§ 18.2-48. Abduction with intent to extort money or for immoral purpose.
Abduction (i) with the intent to extort money or pecuniary benefit, (ii) of any person with intent to defile such person, or (iii) of any child under sixteen years of age for the purpose of concubinage or prostitution, shall be a Class 2 felony. If the sentence imposed for a violation of (ii) or (iii) includes a term of confinement less than life imprisonment, the judge shall impose, in addition to any active sentence, a suspended sentence of no less than 40 years. This suspended sentence shall be suspended for the remainder of the defendant's life subject to revocation by the court.

The essence of this offense is kidnapping someone and demonstrating an intent or actually having some type of sex with him or her, i.e. Abduction with Intent to Defile. “Abduction” and “kidnapping” are synonymous in Virginia. Abduction is defined by Virginia Code Section 18.2-47 as follows:

When one by force, intimidation, or deception, seizes

Takes, transports, detains, or secretes another with the

Intent to deprive that person of liberty or withhold or

Conceal him from proper custody.

This particular statute appends a specific mental state to the above definition, that of the abductor doing the abduction with the intent to defile (commit rape, carnal knowledge, sodomy, object sexual penetration) or to place a child under 16 into prostitution.

The act of the abduction isn’t necessarily actually transporting the victim, and it would seem that the abductor could simply “deprive that person [the victim] of liberty” in the exact same spot where they met. The abductor can even transport the purported victim to an isolated location without any apparent protest from the victim. The prosecution must then prove the abductor’s mental state, i.e. the abductor took the victim to the other place for the purpose of being able to commit his sex crime without fear of being caught.

You wouldn't have to prove that the victim was intoxicated (as you had surmised in a previous post).
 
I think LE has told us several times that they have other forensic information for this case, along with forensic information linking JM to other cases. My guess is that they will have plenty; they just needed a body to prove she was deceased.

Conductor71 said:
Ha, that was Otto, I believe. I am not good with numbers but will leave that to the number crunching sleuths out here.

My question is how this impacts the investigation. From what I have read, it is extremely difficult to determine cause of death with skeletal remains and with little to no tissue left get any sort of toxicology report. How in the world does the prosecution prove defilement with no measure of any alcohol in her system? Honestly, I do not even see how it will make it past arraignment. Not a legal expert, but seems that video and witness testimony is not nearly enough when building a case leading to potential murder charges.
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Whiteorchids said:
Who is RAT?
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Sorry - "Randy Allen Taylor" was convicted of the murder of Alexis Murphy with no body ever found. They had enough evidence found in his trailer to convict without the body.

IF there is evidence like that in JLM's car then the case against him will be much stronger. Right now we have no idea what they have on JLM - but my point it that you don't necessarily have to have a body covered with DNA or even a cause of death to charge and convict someone of murder.
 
Also, there is the possibility that JM buried her in a shallow grave, the recent storms washed the dirt away, then the vultures came out.

Soulmagent said:
There are lot of myths about buzzards, They often dont show up as early as people think they do. Their are two types in black vultures and Turkey vultures and they have different feeding styles. Also crows are at the crime scene first and Vultures get blamed.
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Skigirl said:
I mean, I know I now sound obsessed with turkey vultures/buzzards and they actually really gross me out.. but they can pick a skeleton clean in a matter of hours. I've seen it many times living in the country in terrain quite similar to that found around Charlottesville. Here's an article from a forensic science lab that says that once found, turkey vultures take around 5 hours to reduce a fully-fleshed body to a skeleton (ick): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22204892

"After the initial appearance of the vultures, the body was reduced from a fully-fleshed individual to a skeleton within only 5h. This underscores the potential for errors in postmortem interval estimations made at vulture scavenged scenes."
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That certainly seems to be what might have happened in this case. The neighbor saw a large number of buzzards behind the house where the remains were found on October 5th, yet when he returned the next day he no longer observed any buzzards and then called the tip in to LE.
 
Hoosgirl said:
Humana Road? Where is that? I can't find it on google maps.

http://www.wric.com/story/26821299/human-remains-found-in-search-for-hannah-graham
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It's got to be a mistake, I cannot find a Humana Road anywhere!

"police interviewed residents in the area while search crew combed the sides of Humana Road."

It must mean Old Lynchburg Road, as we know from the reports and photos yesterday searchers were combing the sides of Old Lynchburg Road. Don't know how or where they got Humana Road from, maybe someone needs some sleep and got human remains and road confused? :thinking:
 
Conductor71 said:
1. All we have seen so far (or some of us at least) is JM walking on opposite side of mall then walking along side HG Why would LE ask for video footage of HG and JM together after 1:40 am if they had that proof in the first place? I find it inconceivable that nothing would have appeared on Youtube.

2. Equally as strange there are no witness accounts of anyone seeing them together after the mall footage. It is almost like they both vanished after that.

3. I keep reading there is video footage of them leaving Tempo. Where is that?
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1. LE has never said they have no footage.

2. LE has never said there are no witnesses.

3. In the evidence room far from the prying eyes of the public if it exists at all.
 
Conductor71 said:
Ha, that was Otto, I believe. I am not good with numbers but will leave that to the number crunching sleuths out here.

My question is how this impacts the investigation. From what I have read, it is extremely difficult to determine cause of death with skeletal remains and with little to no tissue left get any sort of toxicology report. How in the world does the prosecution prove defilement with no measure of any alcohol in her system? Honestly, I do not even see how it will make it past arraignment. Not a legal expert, but seems that video and witness testimony is not nearly enough when building a case leading to potential murder charges.
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I think you should start a 'the case against Jesse Leroy thread.
It would be interesting to see which members can get him convicted with what is verifiable as of now.
 
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