Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #5

[HartsX3]

It seems to me that they KNOW what they are looking for...and it is more than a small bone... They called back out the dogs. Something that they have must not be adding up. HG's pants, not HG? HG skull, not her body...something. Is it almost a bolder move than hanging a shirt on a bush to play with LE? Did he arrange things? JMO but my mind is swirling with the possibilities...maybe too much TV :notgood:

 

[newshound6]

Here's my latest theory: (sleuthers, feel free to poke holes)
1. They strongly believe it is HG, and the pants have been identified as HG's
2. They sent the skull in to ID her
3. While some of the remains are HGs, the skull is not. There is more than one set of remains there.
4. Now they are looking for the skull.
I believe the truth is something like one of these theories. I think there was something that caused LE and
HG's parents to know HG's remains are there -but it is more complicated somehow causing everyone involved to go into almost slow motion getting every last shred of evidence and info.If anyone still thought HG was out there somewhere the searches would still be called for.

 

[Elley Mae]

Virginia State Police announced weeks ago that Jesse L. Matthew, Jr., a suspect arrested in connection to Graham's disappearance, had some physical connection to the death of Morgan Harrington.

http://www.wric.com/story/26874919/bench-warrant-issued-for-jesse-matthew-to-be-moved-to-fairfax

Virginia State Police investigating Harrington's death in 2009 determined that DNA on her body connected the perpetrator to a 2005 abduction and rape of a woman in Fairfax.

Matthew has not been charged in connection to the 2009 Harrington abduction and murder, even though the suspect in that case was previously linked to the 2005 case, and the Virginia State Police have already said that there is a forensic link between Harrington's murder and Matthew.

VSP did not reveal any specific details about the nature of the evidence that they found connecting the two cases, but they have asked the public to call in with any information relating to the Harrington case.

bbm

 

[skibaboo]

I can only think they haven't been able to ID through dental records, for whatever reason. If they could have, say it wasn't HG but someone else, AM as an example, wouldn't they have been able to ID another person through dental records too? If the teeth were intact and dental records available? Maybe I imagined it but I'm sure I read yesterday, or the day before they were waiting on DNA testing from the skull?

 

[tlcya]

There is no indication at this point of when the medical examiner findings will be available. According to a statement from Carter Johnson, the public information officer for the Albemarle County Police Department, police do not have timeline for when the results will be released, saying that once the remains have been identified and the next of kin notified they will share the results.

http://news.virginia.edu/content/id-remains-found-hannah-graham-search-still-pending

 

[klily444]

I wish there was a way we could all take a poll on our opinion of the remains. I'm curious to know whether the majority of us think the remains are hers or some variation of hers/others. Has anyone on WS created surveys online before and linked to them, and then posted the results? Thinking out loud, our opinion often changes by the hour as new information is, or in this case, isn't released.

The absolute worst case scenario in my head (which I think is highly unlikely) is that ME comes back saying the remains are that of a 60 y.o. man from 5 years ago.

 

[Heroine]

Hi Heroine-love your dedication here. Maybe, possibly, the skull was face-down and he couldn't see if teeth were intact?? Just making a guess. Anyway, guess we all have more waiting to do before we get answers on an ID. All I keep thinking of is Hannah's last text saying she was lost. Breaks my heart she most likely is lost forever. I hate the waiting, but I hope LE digs up every last clue regarding Hannah and possible others to make JM's punishment be a forever thing too. It scares me that he has to be transported to Fairfax. But I'm sure LE will be super-diligent because he fled once before. Bad enough he did horrible things but what makes him far scarier to me is that most people thought he was a good guy. So dangerous.

Thank you EmmaRose! Some days I'm too dedicated, if you know what I mean....lol

 

[squiddy]

Question: If JM used lime or something to accelerate the decomp of the remains would that also dissolve the teeth? At least start dissolving them? I assume so.

Morgan was ID'd via dental records so I'm theorizing he learned from that and made a special effort to damage the teeth somehow. I still think this is HG.

Teeth are bone - in fact, tooth enamel is even harder than bone, and can last for hundreds, even thousands of years - when bodies are burned beyond recognition, it's often the teeth that are used to identify the remains, since they're the most resistant part of the body to fire. I don't think any kind of decomp process would've damaged the teeth to that extent, but perhaps a large scavenger took away the lower jawbone, and/or enough of the the upper teeth to make id difficult.

I guess the variable here is how recent and encompassing are her radiological dental records? If she's never had a filling, hasn't had any dental x-rays for 5 years, (remember, she's 18 - her permanent teeth aren't that old), etc, that might lead to uncertainty.

I can't imagine he'd go to the trouble of damaging the teeth - I've heard of people burning bodies, burying them, or removing their head/hands in extreme cases. But I suppose anything's possible.

 

[Dee10]

If they think this area was a dumping ground, I assume they would have cadaver dogs searching the whole area, because there are years and years of accumulated layers of leaves. Not sure the kind of trees that are around there (just that there are lots lol) and I don't know how long it takes for leaves to dissolve, but I'm sure you get the picture.

 

[EmmaRose]

Thank you EmmaRose! Some days I'm too dedicated, if you know what I mean....lol

Keep on doing what you are doing.

 

[ksj3]

If they think this area was a dumping ground, I assume they would have cadaver dogs searching the whole area, because there are years and years of accumulated layers of leaves. Not sure the kind of trees that are around there (just that there are lots lol) and I don't know how long it takes for leaves to dissolve, but I'm sure you get the picture.

That's my thought. They want the dogs to check for other, perhaps scattered, buried bodies before they call it "clear."

I have a feeling they have a lot more there than just Hannah.

ETA: This only supports my thought. If the skull sent was Hannah's, they'd know by now. They're probably trying to figure out who the heck it is. https://twitter.com/DebraAlfarone/status/525330405717995520

NEW: ME says "very difficult to put a timeline on a ID for unidentified remains" in #HannahGraham case -or- nothing new @wusa9

 

[whiskers]

If it's not Hannah, will they continue searching? Where would they even go from here??

I hope people in the area still keep an eye out for vultures.

 

[Heroine]

That's my thought. They want the dogs to check for other, perhaps scattered, buried bodies before they call it "clear."

I have a feeling they have a lot more there than just Hannah.

ETA: This only supports my thought. If the skull sent was Hannah's, they'd know by now. They're probably trying to figure out who the heck it is. https://twitter.com/DebraAlfarone/status/525330405717995520

NEW: ME says "very difficult to put a timeline on a ID for unidentified remains" in #HannahGraham case -or- nothing new @wusa9

This is what I'm thinking too. In a way I hope they do find more for all of the families of missing girls, so they can have closure and then of course there's that part of me that hopes there aren't any other victims, but I feel that is unlikely unfortunately.

 

[ChiaPet]

So 1st, I FIRMLY believe, there will be a ton of evidence and possible bodies found in that area. A friend of a friend was out with a group of girlfriends about 5 years ago, on the DT Mall, they dispersed to their separate cars at the end of the evening, and along comes a cabbie who says to the woman "Ma'am you probably shouldn't drive, I can give you a ride home and make sure you're safe", she agrees b/c she thinks to herself "wow I must've had more than I thought and am stumbling, maybe I shouldn't drive." She gets in the cab and nothing seems out of the ordinary until she realizes she never gave him her home address, she plays it cool until he comes to a stop at, where else? Walnut Creek Park. She escapes into the woods. He waited and looked for her for 2 hours. This is word of mouth from 3 people down the line, so could it be embellished? Probably, but if the core is true, which I have no reason to believe it wouldn't be...WOW. She did call police, gave description etc. and has been recently speaking to them again since HG's disappearance.

For some reason, this sounds so true. I really HOPE this person is lying though because otherwise, what a horrifying experience. However, knowing that JM was a cab driver and knowing his probable familiarity with Walnut Creek Park I can really believe that something like this could have happened. I'm also really starting to think that the disappearance dates of MH and HG and where the remains have been found do have a connection with the fall and the changing landscape during the fall and winter seasons. Lots of leaf coverage and then snow and then any runoff with the melting snow in the Spring would be a good time to conceal a lot of evidence.

 

[Le Singe]

I've been thinking the same thing. IMO, it would be unethical to put one victim before another just because of publicity. I think it's just a matter of a back log of cases.

It is unethical but i guarantee it happens, it also unethical to search of one missing person with way more people for way longer .... do we even need to discuss how that actually plays out in real life ... how many people from the FBI academy were searching for Cassandra Morton does anyone remember? How long did groups of 50-100 searchers search for samantha clark everyday?

 

[Elley Mae]

I wonder if LE has items from multiply missing people and are seeing if the dogs make a hit off of the different items. jmo idk I don't know if they can ask a dog to smell for multiply people at the same time. jmo idk Something just seems amiss. They are looking for something that is for sure, something that they feel is in that area.

 

[RSC]

For some reason, this sounds so true. I really HOPE this person is lying though because otherwise, what a horrifying experience. However, knowing that JM was a cab driver and knowing his probable familiarity with Walnut Creek Park I can really believe that something like this could have happened. I'm also really starting to think that the disappearance dates of MH and HG and where the remains have been found do have a connection with the fall and the changing landscape during the fall and winter seasons. Lots of leaf coverage and then snow and then any runoff with the melting snow in the Spring would be a good time to conceal a lot of evidence.

Head over to the "what do we know about JM" thread for conversation about events and the timing of LU football games!

 

[leah]

I have no idea, so I'm asking about the teeth. With all the talk about vultures, and I'm sure other birds and animals, if it is true there were no teeth, is it possible the teeth were taken by vultures. I'm not sure how to say this without sounding horrible, the way vultures attack, could teeth be pulled out by them? I have this terrible picture in my head, I never knew exactly what vultures do until reading it on here, very disturbing.

 

[RSC]

It is unethical but i guarantee it happens, it also unethical to search of one missing person with way more people for way longer .... do we even need to discuss how that actually plays out in real life ... how many people from the FBI academy were searching for Cassandra Morton does anyone remember? How long did groups of 50-100 searchers search for samantha clark everyday?

To be fair--I think that when HG disappeared, two key things factored in to the aggressive search:
1. The video. They had their suspect very quickly, and wanted to get him off the streets.
2. They suspected instantly that this was a serial killer, and tied to MH (and thus 2005 fairfax). With SC, I think they have been fairly confident that the perpetrator (RAT) is behind bars.

 

[ksj3]

If it's not Hannah, will they continue searching? Where would they even go from here??

I hope people in the area still keep an eye out for vultures.

I think that's why the dogs are coming back.