Hannah Graham: Body Recovered, 18 Oct, 2014 **Awaiting Forensic Confirmation** #5

[razzledazzle]

OT, but in Sept 1999, Hurricane Floyd hit eastern NC and brought rains of biblical proportions. Areas were completely covered by waters in areas that were described as being in the '500 years flood plain'. I still vividly recall images shown on the evening news of coffins floating down the streets. Having said all that, I do believe that the dark pants found indicate these remains didn't wash up from a cemetery. JMO

I remember that...

 

[bestill]

I know. Sometimes I feel like this thread should be called Buzzards and Bones.

And tight, dark pants :gaah:

Hannah was on Yik-Yak quite a lot from her Twitter (she posted several screenshots).

What is Yik-Yak? Is it something that JM would be on?

 

[las726]

I'm way behind, but this is what I so believe. And since the Fairfax victim was able to get free, I think he decided he would never let another victim escape and he had to kill any future the witnesses. But he felt wiser than LE since he had the track record of never getting caught!
Also, I think as far as his knowledge of medicine just because he worked at UVA Medical Center: it's non-existent, zero, null medical knowledge. JMO

Agree re: his "medical knowledge". I am a nurse, work alongside CNAs, very unlikely he would have significant advance knowledge to give him an advantage as far as forensics or access go. Nothing against CNAs, just think that unless you are an MD who has surgical experience, your "medical knowledge" is not very helpful in this situation.

 

[nella]

What is Yik-Yak? Is it something that JM would be on?

It's kinda like an anonymous version of Twitter, used a lot on college campuses. You can see short posts from people within a 1.5 mile radius of you. He could've been on there, but there are no names listed.

 

[Dogface]

I am only aware of the one tip about the vultures (black ones) that the landscaper saw on October 5th and reported on October 6th. The neighbor who reported a fowl smell didn't report having seen vultures/buzzards.

Lol this is almost as good as the guys/gays!

 

[meldga]

Long-time lurker here, but finally had to post to ask if anyone thinks LE might be delaying the official ID at the request of the family? I read somewhere (probably here!) that the Grahams have a lot of family in England and that there was at least one very elderly relative (100+). Maybe the family has asked for time to break this news to family which would be difficult to do long-distance. They might also want to have time to protect family members from prying tabloid reporters. I think I've heard that England has particularly invasive tabloid reporters - Daily Mail, etc. - and maybe the family wanted time to move any elderly relatives to a different address where they wouldn't be tracked down and harassed by reporters. I can't even imagine trying to break this kind of news to a great-grandparent.

 

[Foxfire]

Quote Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post
Makes me wonder why the remains were not located much sooner. Two calls should have triggered a search, Imo.

I think it should, but in practice with so much information often small oversights or a breakdown in communication leads to things being missed like this.

Imo, there should have been a Task Force established in VA years ago by the VSP or ACPD due to the signs and patterns indicating the high probability of an active sexual predator/serial killer in the state.. If there has been an Official Task Force formed, it has been a well kept secret, imo. Although the FBI BAU2 has long been involved in the investigation. I am not aware of a task force.. Is anyone else?

Many times in high profile cases where high volumes of tips come in. The failure by investigators to prioritize or organize the tips is a common error. It is critical that the most important tips are followed up and dealt with first.. It is imperative that a competent and experienced investigator/s be assigned to prioritize significant tips, imo. Another issue of many is the communication between Law Enforcement Agencies when jurisdictional lines are crossed..


http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder
FBI - Serial Murder
Task Force Organization

Once a serial murder series has been identified, it is important for the involved law enforcement agencies to work together. There are a number of operational and investigative issues critical to the successful establishment of an investigative task force.

Initially, a lead agency for the task force should be designated and will assume the primary investigative role. The choice of a lead agency is based upon a number of factors including the number and viability of the cases, available resources, and investigative experience. Once established, all law enforcement agencies involved in the investigation should have representation in the task force. Any outlying agencies should also be included, even if they do not have an identified case in the investigation.

An effective and reliable investigative model identifies a lead investigator and co-investigator, who, regardless of rank, are given complete control of the investigation. These investigators review all incoming information, collate the information, and assign leads. If the flow of incoming information becomes unmanageable due to an excessive influx of investigative tips, the lead investigators can delegate this responsibility to an experienced investigator, who will act as a lead control officer.

Resource Augmentation

As the investigation continues, the manpower requirements of the task force will increase for various reasons, including increasing the number of investigators and support staff.
<sniped - read more>

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Long-time lurker here, but finally had to post to ask if anyone thinks LE might be delaying the official ID at the request of the family? I read somewhere (probably here!) that the Grahams have a lot of family in England and that there was at least one very elderly relative (100+). Maybe the family has asked for time to break this news to family which would be difficult to do long-distance. They might also want to have time to protect family members from prying tabloid reporters. I think I've heard that England has particularly invasive tabloid reporters - Daily Mail, etc. - and maybe the family wanted time to move any elderly relatives to a different address where they wouldn't be tracked down and harassed by reporters. I can't even imagine trying to break this kind of news to a great-grandparent.

I don't think it takes this long to get in contact with people in 2014? I really can't see the media waiting outside the homes of relatives. I have never seen them outside of the Graham house, and they have barely said anything about Hannah's family.

 

[skibaboo]

Just to think out loud, but I know you will not like:

There is an old cemetery nearby. The road and stream have been rerouted since the 30s or 40s. Could just be an old skeleton that washed out when the old stream path filled up on the 10/15 severe rains.

That wouldn't explain all the buzzards though?

 

[Slapmyknee]

From what I remember of the article quoting the "neighbors" about the smell, the names of the neighbors quoted matches the names of the owners of a property just outside the portion of Old Lynchburg Road that was closed off. My guess is the media were there outside the barricade, hungry for information, and the "neighbors" came out to see what was up, and the media interviewed them and used that colorfully descriptive quote about the vultures and the smell even though their property isn't anywhere near enough to smell anything that was where the as-of-yet-unidentified remains were found.

With that said, given my growing worry about the delay in identification, perhaps there is something to find much nearer to the "neighbors".

That is what I was thinking.

 

[skibaboo]

I don't think it takes this long to get in contact with people in 2014? I really can't see the media waiting outside the homes of relatives. I have never seen them outside of the Graham house, and they have barely said anything about Hannah's family.

Just to add to that, I have seen very little about HG in the British media full stop, except for the DM and a brief mention on the news when the remains were found.

 

[ILOKAL]

Lol this is almost as good as the guys/gays!

Wow! That's even funnier than just misspelling "fowl"'. Ya' think I can blame this in autocorrect?

 

[Heroine]

:waiting::kickcan: :grouphug:

And tight, dark pants :gaah:



What is Yik-Yak? Is it something that JM would be on?

 

[SouthwestSue]

Here's my latest theory: (sleuthers, feel free to poke holes)
1. They strongly believe it is HG, and the pants have been identified as HG's
2. They sent the skull in to ID her
3. While some of the remains are HGs, the skull is not. There is more than one set of remains there.
4. Now they are looking for the skull.

First post but have been following this one closely. I do think they have found Hannah's remains because LE made it a point to say that a long vertebrae was found.......Hannah was 5'11 inches tall. Are any of the other missing girls as tall as Hannah???

 

[ZsaZsa]

Just to add to that, I have seen very little about HG in the British media full stop, except for the DM and a brief mention on the news when the remains were found.

I've seen it in the Times, Telegraph and on BBC news every day.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=hannah graham

 

[Heroine]

I have been one all along that was fairly certain that these remains found were of Hannah. For several days now I have held firm to that belief, but I have to admit that I am now beginning to have doubts that they are of her. I recall that Chief Longo, in his press conference announcing the find, made comment that this case was "complex", and I think we all understand that it is, but I don't see where making positive identification of remains would be more complex in this case than in countless others, even taking the somewhat unexpected, for me anyway, decomposition into account. We know beyond reasonable doubt that she had dental records that almost surely were in LE's possession before the remains were found. The office of the ME can issue releases stating that this case has no higher priority than others, but I frankly just don't believe that. This is a case with what almost everyone now suspects is a serial killer maybe several times over and it is getting national coverage. No way is identifying these remains not being given highest priority, imo. The lack of any release confirming that the remains are Hannah's leaves me now seriously wondering if they are someone else's altogether, or at the very least, Hannah's plus someone else's. Or, as someone else has pondered, that the pants or other things found do not belong to the remains. As always, JMO

That all sounds like possibilities in this case. I will say I find it intriguing that they are now saying that it could possibly be a dumping ground, but we know there must be a reason for them to believe that. IMO

 

[ZsaZsa]

Long-time lurker here, but finally had to post to ask if anyone thinks LE might be delaying the official ID at the request of the family? I read somewhere (probably here!) that the Grahams have a lot of family in England and that there was at least one very elderly relative (100+). Maybe the family has asked for time to break this news to family which would be difficult to do long-distance. They might also want to have time to protect family members from prying tabloid reporters. I think I've heard that England has particularly invasive tabloid reporters - Daily Mail, etc. - and maybe the family wanted time to move any elderly relatives to a different address where they wouldn't be tracked down and harassed by reporters. I can't even imagine trying to break this kind of news to a great-grandparent.

Mr Graham mentioned during one of their appeals that she had grandparents in Reading,Berks.

 

[ninij9]

There was a rape in 2005, it wasn't until MH's death in 2009 that they found a match. At that point they knew they had someone who had escalated from rape to rape/murder. The knew he would strike again and were ready to go all out when that happened. That happened to be Hannah.

It was nothing personal against MH. And it's nothing personal regarding CM or SC, they most likely didn't have anything to link them to this perp, and SC is linked to RAT. Realistically, they can't call on the FBI for every missing person or body found, there has to a link and there wasn't much to go on by the time MH disappeared. LE can probably request to have things run though the FBI database, but until they think they have the guy the FBI isn't going to take an active part. IMO

I understand people here are angry, but I don't understand the posts implying there's a racial component or because it was a UVA student that now the FBI is involved. Would you rather they were not involved at all? I don't get it. I'm glad they're doing everything they can to nail this guy to the wall.

But the big guns were brought in to FIND Hannah's body. Search efforts were huge. Were they this extensive with Alexis or Samantha? Or even Morgan?

 

[GhostGhost]

'
Buzzard Bashing, Men know little about women's fashion but summarize it easily (tight), and what the heck is Yik-Yak?


.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I've seen it in the Times, Telegraph and on BBC news every day.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=hannah graham

That link only brings up 10 related articles with nothing between Sept 29 and Oct 19