Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[WhitegateGirl]

I might be alone in thinking this, but it strikes me that his family are genuinely devastated and perhaps wanted to convey this message regardless of what sort of impression it gave. Maybe the lawyer tried to say it was a bad idea and they insisted, who knows. But they must be cut to pieces too. The person they thought was their son/brother etc may be still here physically, but hes gone forever. They are helpless bystanders who didn't ask for any of this.

Thank you for saying this, strawb93. I agree, and I have no doubt that their lives will never be whole again, knowing what hope, light, and beauty their own loved and trusted family member has stolen from the earth. They have forever lost someone, too--they've lost the person they believed him to be. And all they have left in his place now is horror, shame, sadness, and a sense of the profoundest betrayal. After all, he allowed them to defend him publicly...and all the while he knew full well how misplaced their trust in him truly was. Clearly he has no shame, but these decent people who have loved him so dearly and trusted him to be what he pretended to be will now have to feel shame on his behalf. God bless ALL of the families Jesse Matthew has torn apart, including his own.

 

[whiskers]

I agree with you, and while I have often disagreed with Paglia's opinions, the essay you are talking about should be required reading for many young women, even if just for the sake of considering Paglia's point of view, whether they ultimately agree or disagree.

Of course nobody is to blame except the killer, yet we would be very naive to think the world should operate the way WE want it to, so we should be able to live our lives blissfully without fear. My own daughters are irritated by my advice to be safe, not walking alone at night, not running on deserted trails, not walking around the city or campus oblivious to the world around them with ear buds blasting their private soundtrack. Still, I hope that while they're rolling their eyes at me or letting out an irritated teenage sigh, they'll at least store my advice somewhere in the self preservation depths of their brains.

But having said all of the above, I have to clarify that when I re-watch the security camera footage of Hannah, I see a girl who WAS taking some precautions. When captured across the street from the Shell station, she is running. Why? I'd like to believe it was because she knew she was in a sketchy area where she could be vulnerable, so she was running to reach a more populated area. And that's what just kills me. It's not until she reaches an area with lots of people, an area where she SHOULD be safe, that she falls victim to a predator, a wolf in sheep's (or teddy bear's) clothing. Why didn't somebody step in? So many people. Even a bouncer who had banned the predator from his bar due to the very behavior he was witnessing as he watched Hannah being supported by--practically carried by--this creep?

Hannah may have helped save the next girl from JLM, but the price she and everybody who knew and loved her paid was far too great. If we truly want to help save the next girl, teaching girls to be realists and to be aware of their surroundings may be a step in the right direction, but it's still not enough. To help save the next girl, we need to step up and stop being bystanders, witnessing, but not stepping in to help or question when something doesn't look quite right. If we want to help save the next girl, we should put some of the responsibility for her safety on us.

This. All of this. No need to sum it up. Thank you.

 

[Kale]

I think the reason people get frustrated when it's suggested that women should be more careful is because that's all we ever hear. I know I pretty much just said this, but why is it totally on us? Every day when I go out, I think about how not to become a victim. I don't always have a companion, but I go for walks. I carry mace and a whistle, plan my routes, tell my husband exactly where I'll be, and sometimes I get followed and harassed and I just abort mission and run back to my car.

This is my reality every day of my life. My daily plans are strongly not-getting-killed-oriented. But I have been chased, frightened, and even casually groped a few times (two times right in front of my husband, my best friend, and my best friend's husband, so to hell with precautions). Tell me what you think the odds are that any of those men who hunted me like an animal were ever told (thousands and thousands of times) not to be a rapist, groper, murderer, harasser, objectifier, general bad person, etc... Well, I can't tell you how many times I've simply been told not to be a victim. The distribution of responsibility is a joke. It's my responsibility not to allow a person who is bigger and stronger than me to do whatever he wants to me. BS.

 

[cluciano63]

Women and girls SHOULD be able to walk about safely, or jog, etc if they choose, but the fact is, they are vulnerable targets. It should not be that way, but there will always be predators who have not yet been stopped, ex-con predators, and brand new ones just beginning their life of violence. You can see by internet forums everywhere how many women-hating "trolls" are out there, ready to viciously attack (with words) at anything a woman says or does, or how she looks...some of those people will go "live" one day.

We should not have to constantly counsel, remind, coax, beg etc daughters, nieces, sisters not to walk alone, use the buddy system, all of the things we do, but what is the option? Campuses all over the country provide enough dangers for young people, with binge drinking, sexual assaults, "date" rape, having drinks spiked and on and on. When we add in all the rules about not being alone...I think most just tune out. Everyone feels they can handle themselves at that age, or that the adults are just always lecturing.

These types of crimes have been happening for centuries and won't end anytime soon. It is very depressing and frustrating to me, but I don't know the answer. We can't afford not to continue to "lecture" them, even if it is mostly in one ear, out the other.

Jmo

 

[baltolady]

This is so very sad. The news we have been fearing and waiting for all this time. My heart breaks every single time there is a case such as Hannah's on WS. So many caring, compassionate, dedicated individuals coming together with their skills and talents looking for clues to these horrid crimes. Now, everyone's heart is broken; but, only to be revived and rejuvenated when the next one needs the attention that only all of you can offer. All of these victims have needed you, you were there and continue to be. I am not religious per se; but, I am sure the universe (and your chosen deity) blesses each and every one of you.



RIP Hannah. May justice for you be swift and severe.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I think the reason people get frustrated when it's suggested that women should be more careful is because that's all we ever hear. I know I pretty much just said this, but why is it totally on us? Every day when I go out, I think about how not to become a victim. I don't always have a companion, but I go for walks. I carry mace and a whistle, plan my routes, tell my husband exactly where I'll be, and sometimes I get followed and harassed and I just abort mission and run back to my car.

s is my reality every day of my life. My daily plans are strongly not-getting-killed-oriented. But I have been chased, frightened, and even casually groped a few times (two times right in front of my husband, my best friend, and my best friend's husband, so to hell with precautions). Tell me what you think the odds are that any of those men who hunted me like an animal were ever told (thousands and thousands of times) not to be a rapist, groper, murderer, harasser, objectifier, general bad person, etc... Well, I can't tell you how many times I've simply been told not to be a victim. The distribution of responsibility is a joke. It's my responsibility not to allow a person who is bigger and stronger than me to do whatever he wants to me. BS.

You need a very protective dog with you!

 

[WhitegateGirl]

I agree with you, and while I have often disagreed with Paglia's opinions, the essay you are talking about should be required reading for many young women, even if just for the sake of considering Paglia's point of view, whether they ultimately agree or disagree.

Of course nobody is to blame except the killer, yet we would be very naive to think the world should operate the way WE want it to, so we should be able to live our lives blissfully without fear. My own daughters are irritated by my advice to be safe, not walking alone at night, not running on deserted trails, not walking around the city or campus oblivious to the world around them with ear buds blasting their private soundtrack. Still, I hope that while they're rolling their eyes at me or letting out an irritated teenage sigh, they'll at least store my advice somewhere in the self preservation depths of their brains.

But having said all of the above, I have to clarify that when I re-watch the security camera footage of Hannah, I see a girl who WAS taking some precautions. When captured across the street from the Shell station, she is running. Why? I'd like to believe it was because she knew she was in a sketchy area where she could be vulnerable, so she was running to reach a more populated area. And that's what just kills me. It's not until she reaches an area with lots of people, an area where she SHOULD be safe, that she falls victim to a predator, a wolf in sheep's (or teddy bear's) clothing. Why didn't somebody step in? So many people. Even a bouncer who had banned the predator from his bar due to the very behavior he was witnessing as he watched Hannah being supported by--practically carried by--this creep?

Hannah may have helped save the next girl from JLM, but the price she and everybody who knew and loved her paid was far too great. If we truly want to help save the next girl, teaching girls to be realists and to be aware of their surroundings may be a step in the right direction, but it's still not enough. To help save the next girl, we need to step up and stop being bystanders, witnessing, but not stepping in to help or question when something doesn't look quite right. If we want to help save the next girl, we should put some of the responsibility for her safety on us.

So much wisdom and truth in your post, Concerned Mama. Thank you for saying it so well, and so convincingly.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

IMO JLM is a psychopath. They are born that way. No attempts to teach him empathy and compassion would ever, or will ever, be successful. He is simply incapable of feeling those things.

As for teaching women to take steps to protect themselves, use the buddy system, etc.:

1. This will only be successful to a certain degree due to the human thought process, especially strong in the young, that leads one to believe that "that [whatever it is] won't happen to me."

2. I may not be retelling this accurately, but I recall a story about Indira Gandhi's response to proposed legislation that would require women to not be in public after a certain hour for their own protection. Her response was that it was the men who should be required to stay home since they were the threats, not the women.

 

[Kale]

You need a very protective dog with you!

I've got one! He certainly helps. But I can't take him anywhere. I can't take him to the store or to any indoor place and he makes the bus complicated. I don't feel like I have freedom when I'm with the dog. I want to be free to do what I want to do.

 

[ThinkHard]

I think the reason people get frustrated when it's suggested that women should be more careful is because that's all we ever hear. I know I pretty much just said this, but why is it totally on us? Every day when I go out, I think about how not to become a victim. I don't always have a companion, but I go for walks. I carry mace and a whistle, plan my routes, tell my husband exactly where I'll be, and sometimes I get followed and harassed and I just abort mission and run back to my car.

This is my reality every day of my life. My daily plans are strongly not-getting-killed-oriented. But I have been chased, frightened, and even casually groped a few times (two times right in front of my husband, my best friend, and my best friend's husband, so to hell with precautions). Tell me what you think the odds are that any of those men who hunted me like an animal were ever told (thousands and thousands of times) not to be a rapist, groper, murderer, harasser, objectifier, general bad person, etc... Well, I can't tell you how many times I've simply been told not to be a victim. The distribution of responsibility is a joke. It's my responsibility not to allow a person who is bigger and stronger than me to do whatever he wants to me. BS.

Of course not, only an idiot would argue that.

But as in many things in life we have very little control over other people's actions, the only person we can control is ourselves. So while I'd love to change the culture in which we raise both males and females in this country, its clearly complex. So in the mean time what we are reduced to is the single thing we do have control over; our own choices.

 

[WhitegateGirl]

I have always believed that, while girls are frequently told to not become victims, boys are not all often enough told not to be violent criminals. No one wants to look at their sweet baby boy and even pretend for five seconds that there's a possibility that he'll be the horrible monster that does something like this. It probably doesn't even cross a lot of parents' minds. An eight year old boy is so sweet and innocent. But I think the "Don't hurt people" talk should be as required - and started at as early an age - as the sex talk and the drugs talk.

Amen, Kale--A-freaking-men.

 

[whiskers]

Maybe the mods could start a new thread about this. Safety and self-awareness. I know I'd personally like that. And this has nothing to do with this thread. I know I need to keep myself in check from time to time on self-awareness. (can't believe I have to type that.) Maybe in future there could be a thread dedicated to this. (Again, not related to this thread at all and Hannah and her family.)

 

[littlemaybaby]

Hannah wasn't uneducated on the risks of drinking and being out alone. One of her tweets in just the weeks before she disappeared was about helping a girl who was drunk and alone get home safely.

Hannah was an 18 year old girl who made an unwise decision under the influence of alcohol. I would encourage everyone on this forum with some years and wisdom beyond the age of 18 to look back at that age of your life. Did you ever make 1 dumb decision? I know I made a lot more than 1. And by the grace of God (or luck or whatever you believe in), I never crossed paths with a serial killer as a result. Hannah was in the wrong place at the wrong time and if it hadn't been Hannah 6 weeks ago, it would have been another victim soon enough.

I'm not at all against educating women on the risks in this world and how to try to stay safe. Unfortunately all the education in the world was not going to save the next girl. Catching JLM is what saved the next girl. And unfortunately there are more JLMs in the world.

 

[Kale]

I don't want to justify RAT's seemingly desperate move, but I can't help being eager to see what comes of the investigation of any possible links between JM and the Alexis Murphy case. Gotta admit it seems incredibly stupid to suggest an investigation into that if RAT and/or his team already know there's no connection.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

An eight year old boy is so sweet and innocent. But I think the "Don't hurt people" talk should be as required - and started at as early an age - as the sex talk and the drugs talk.

Snipped for focus

I am not sure what to make of this statement. I'm not a parent myself but shouldn't "don't hurt people" be a part of day-to-day child rearing for both boys and girls as soon as they are able to understand that they are capable of hurting others?

I have not ever considered this an awkward subject warranting a special talk like sex or drugs might.

 

[tlcya]

Any news since:


Roads in search area reopened
ID confirmed
Family statement
JM family statement via JM atty

?

Thanks In Advance

 

[cluciano63]

I have a question...not sure where to put it. I have heard that if you call 911 your location shows up. If so, why is ping info often so vague in missing persons cases? Is it a feature only available to 911?

 

[themom]

I agree with you, and while I have often disagreed with Paglia's opinions, the essay you are talking about should be required reading for many young women, even if just for the sake of considering Paglia's point of view, whether they ultimately agree or disagree.

Of course nobody is to blame except the killer, yet we would be very naive to think the world should operate the way WE want it to, so we should be able to live our lives blissfully without fear. My own daughters are irritated by my advice to be safe, not walking alone at night, not running on deserted trails, not walking around the city or campus oblivious to the world around them with ear buds blasting their private soundtrack. Still, I hope that while they're rolling their eyes at me or letting out an irritated teenage sigh, they'll at least store my advice somewhere in the self preservation depths of their brains.

But having said all of the above, I have to clarify that when I re-watch the security camera footage of Hannah, I see a girl who WAS taking some precautions. When captured across the street from the Shell station, she is running. Why? I'd like to believe it was because she knew she was in a sketchy area where she could be vulnerable, so she was running to reach a more populated area. And that's what just kills me. It's not until she reaches an area with lots of people, an area where she SHOULD be safe, that she falls victim to a predator, a wolf in sheep's (or teddy bear's) clothing. Why didn't somebody step in? So many people. Even a bouncer who had banned the predator from his bar due to the very behavior he was witnessing as he watched Hannah being supported by--practically carried by--this creep?

Hannah may have helped save the next girl from JLM, but the price she and everybody who knew and loved her paid was far too great. If we truly want to help save the next girl, teaching girls to be realists and to be aware of their surroundings may be a step in the right direction, but it's still not enough. To help save the next girl, we need to step up and stop being bystanders, witnessing, but not stepping in to help or question when something doesn't look quite right. If we want to help save the next girl, we should put some of the responsibility for her safety on us.

Love this. As a mom to a sweet girl, I appreciate your words.

 

[Kale]

I have a question...not sure where to put it. I have heard that if you call 911 your location shows up. If so, why is ping info often so vague in missing persons cases? Is it a feature only available to 911?

Interesting. Just yesterday on NPR, I heard a story about how police actually have a more difficult time getting a location reading from a cell phone call than they do from a landline call. They talked about a little boy whose parents had a medical emergency, and because he didn't know his own address, it took ten minutes to locate him. I think that cell phone pings are more private information, that police can only access when it's necessary for an open investigation? This is just my best guess.

 

[ClueingForLooks]

IMO JLM is a psychopath. They are born that way. No attempts to teach him empathy and compassion would ever, or will ever, be successful. He is simply incapable of feeling those things.

As for teaching women to take steps to protect themselves, use the buddy system, etc.:

1. This will only be successful to a certain degree due to the human thought process, especially strong in the young, that leads one to believe that "that [whatever it is] won't happen to me."

2. I may not be retelling this accurately, but I recall a story about Indira Gandhi's response to proposed legislation that would require women to not be in public after a certain hour for their own protection. Her response was that it was the men who should be required to stay home since they were the threats, not the women.

BBM because it bears repeating.