Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[ThinkHard]

Maybe the mods could start a new thread about this. Safety and self-awareness. I know I'd personally like that. And this has nothing to do with this thread. I know I need to keep myself in check from time to time on self-awareness. (can't believe I have to type that.) Maybe in future there could be a thread dedicated to this. (Again, not related to this thread at all and Hannah and her family.)

This could be useful....I think what they tell you in safety classes, or at least what they emphasize isn't always the same thing as what comes in handy to actually being "street smart" in the real world. I know in my younger days I made many unwise choices and put myself in situations in which I was quite vulnerable, I feel lucky.

Later I lived in large cities, first for grad school in which a safety course was mandatory, then on my own, and later abroad. What came in useful, wasn't what I learned in safety class. Perhaps real world experience would be a great forum, in what makes women end up in situation where a predator has the opportunity to victimize these women, and how threw awareness and experience can we develop habits that minimize predators opportunities to "access" to victimize us.

Its clearly only a piece of the issue, as many have stated the root is in what allows or leads to violent behavior, but it is the piece each women has immediate control over.

 

[WhitegateGirl]

Me, too, Kale, and all my life it has been a hard reality I have chafed against and resented, including two attacks on me right in broad daylight in the streets of San Diego--one just two blocks from my own home, the other on the beachwalk at Mission Beach--and both happened in early afternoon. I understand your frustration, I truly do, but having lost a university colleague to a savage murder on the streets of Cambridge, Mass., right in front of her apartment one night, and having walked those streets in fear every day thereafter, I can only say that you are right, WE should not have to be the ones whose activities are limited. But the reality is that these predatory monsters can be anywhere, and no matter how unfair it is, we have no choice but to protect ourselves and watch out for our friends. I can tell you're tough and strong-spirited, and I admire that. I like to think I have an *advertiser censored**-kicking side myself. But this is a reality we live with, and to acknowledge it doesn't mean we're weak or defeated. It just means we're realists, and we can save our *advertiser censored**-kicking side for the times when we need to stand up for victims like Hannah and Morgan and do everything we can to see that their killers are put away forever, and to militate for safer streets...because you're absolutely right: women should not have to walk down any street in America, or anywhere else, in fear for their very lives.

 

[GeeButtersnaps]

Agree 100% with your feelings of anger. I am so, so angry that this felt entitled to take, use, and dispose of a beautiful human life (LIVES!) like trash. These young women were so much better than him, so much more loved, more accomplished, more engaged and in love with life itself than him - a despicable, disgusting, heinous individual. It makes me so angry that he took their lives away, and took them away from their loving families. So much promise that that sicko took away from all of us.

It makes me feel better to see these comments bc the anger I feel toward that miserable piece of garbage for what he has done to these innocent victims and their families is beyond belief. Thank you for expressing it better than I can ATM..I feel if I try to let it all out in words on here I'd never be allowed back! Ugh makes me so sad, angry, frustrated, and any other similar emotion you can throw in there..

 

[GhostGhost]

,
He's a Serial Killer.


MOO

 

[Kale]

Me, too, Kale, and all my life it has been a hard reality I have chafed against and resented, including two attacks on me right in broad daylight in the streets of San Diego--one just two blocks from my own home, the other on the beachwalk at Mission Beach--and both happened in early afternoon. I understand your frustration, I truly do, but having lost a university colleague to a savage murder on the streets of Cambridge, Mass., right in front of her apartment one night, and having walked those streets in fear every day thereafter, I can only say that you are right, WE should not have to be the ones whose activities are limited. But the reality is that these predatory monsters can be anywhere, and no matter how unfair it is, we have no choice but to protect ourselves and watch out for our friends. I can tell you're tough and strong-spirited, and I admire that. I like to think I have an *advertiser censored**-kicking side myself. But this is a reality we live with, and to acknowledge it doesn't mean we're weak or defeated. It just means we're realists, and we can save our *advertiser censored**-kicking side for the times when we need to stand up for victims like Hannah and Morgan and do everything we can to see that their killers are put away forever, and to militate for safer streets...because you're absolutely right: women should not have to walk down any street in America, or anywhere else, in fear for their very lives.

Sorry for all that's happened =( Yes, you're right. There's always a place for safety. I've lived a blessed life until now because nothing really bad has ever happened to me (one reason why I have to mention I am sooo far from tough =P). In a lot of ways I was just very, very lucky, never in the wrong place at the wrong time... All the men in my life are good men. But I can't say with certainty that I would be so lucky if not for a few quick decisions I've made from time to time, or precautions I took here and there. Safety and street smarts are absolutely essential. I just hope that we can also slowly change the way society thinks of these things - and thus maybe the frequency with which they occur - through education.

 

[WhitegateGirl]

Maybe the mods could start a new thread about this. Safety and self-awareness. I know I'd personally like that. And this has nothing to do with this thread. I know I need to keep myself in check from time to time on self-awareness. (can't believe I have to type that.) Maybe in future there could be a thread dedicated to this. (Again, not related to this thread at all and Hannah and her family.)

I think this is a wonderful idea, whiskers. Meanwhile, I do think this direction in the conversation is a relevant part of receiving the news that Hannah's remains have been identified and acknowledging the tragedy of her murder. I know we're supposed to stay on topic with each thread, and truly, I do think this is a valid response to the news that this thread is processing. I hope your suggestion will be taken and such a thread will be started, though, because it could save some lives going forward.

 

[WhitegateGirl]

Sorry for all that's happened =( Yes, you're right. There's always a place for safety. I've lived a blessed life until now because nothing really bad has ever happened to me (one reason why I have to mention I am sooo far from tough =P). In a lot of ways I was just very, very lucky, never in the wrong place at the wrong time... All the men in my life are good men. But I can't say with certainty that I would be so lucky if not for a few quick decisions I've made from time to time, or precautions I took here and there. Safety and street smarts are absolutely essential. I just hope that we can also slowly change the way society thinks of these things - and thus maybe the frequency with which they occur - through education.

Amen, Kale. A-freaking-men.

 

[Piaget]

I've got one! He certainly helps. But I can't take him anywhere. I can't take him to the store or to any indoor place and he makes the bus complicated. I don't feel like I have freedom when I'm with the dog. I want to be free to do what I want to do.

Don't we all!

 

[Caitlin]

UNLESS the police have zilch as far as evidence, the public WILL NOT ALLOW there to be plea bargain. I guarantee it!

Okay I know this was a few hours ago, but just got home from work. I can see a plea bargain happening if there are more victims and LE is willing to plea him down for names/ locations/ etc. I'm sure the current victims' families would understand the anguish of other missing girls' families and want them to have answers as well.

 

[GeeButtersnaps]

Well put. IMO it's the same as defensive driving in many ways.

Said perfectly in reference to being more cautious (buddy system, etc.) I have thought the exact same way and convey it that way to my family. You may go thru an intersection and have the right of way but if someone runs a light and you're not paying attention and they hit you and kill you it doesn't do you much good to say "but I was in the right they shouldn't have hit me" does it? Same thing here-we would all love to live in a world where we don't have to deal with bad things/people but that's just not realistic. And you shouldn't think because you shouldn't have to worry about it that you shouldn't worry about it. Of course there's only one person to blame and that's the perp but that doesn't mean you can't do everything in your power to not be the next victim..

 

[Kale]

Okay I know this was a few hours ago, but just got home from work. I can see a plea bargain happening if there are more victims and LE is willing to plea him down for names/ locations/ etc. I'm sure the current victims' families would understand the anguish of other missing girls' families and want them to have answers as well.

Regardless, he is so boned. I actually initially thought the discovery of Hannah's body was the result of some arm twisting for JM considering all they have on him. But it's starting to sound like JM did not in fact give up the remains. And it's way too late for him to get any leverage out of MH's case. Both bodies are found. Any plea bargain could only occur if there are even more unrecovered bodies (definitely not saying that that's out of the realm of possibility) and any plea bargain at this point could probably only spare him from capital punishment.

 

[WhitegateGirl]

Okay I know this was a few hours ago, but just got home from work. I can see a plea bargain happening if there are more victims and LE is willing to plea him down for names/ locations/ etc. I'm sure the current victims' families would understand the anguish of other missing girls' families and want them to have answers as well.

Good point, Caitlin, those families deserve an answer to the whereabouts of their missing loved ones--and as long as JM never sees the light of day again, I know I'd be okay with a plea deal that put him away forever and gave those anguished families some answers. As GhostGhost just posted and many of us have come to believe, JM is very, very likely a serial killer with multiple victims still unidentified.

 

[human]

Raise children with love, respect, and give them power. Let them make decisions.

Don't, yell, shame, or belittle your children. Do not be a drug abuser, alcohol abuser, or stay with a person that abuses you or your children.

Have schools treat children with respect and understanding.

Safety lessons and talks do not matter. It is the love injected into your child.

If you have issues of self esteem, Get help. You cannot give your child what you do not have yourself

 

[themom]

Raise children with love, respect, and give them power. Let them make decisions.

Don't, yell, shame, or belittle your children. Do not be a drug abuser, alcohol abuser, or stay with a person that abuses you or your children.

Have schools treat children with respect and understanding.

Safety lessons and talks do not matter. It is the love injected into your child.

If you have issues of self esteem, Get help. You cannot give your child what you do not have yourself

I knew I liked you, human! [emoji5]

 

[Foxfire]

,
He's a Serial Killer.


MOO

Sorry for all that's happened =( Yes, you're right. There's always a place for safety. I've lived a blessed life until now because nothing really bad has ever happened to me (one reason why I have to mention I am sooo far from tough =P). In a lot of ways I was just very, very lucky, never in the wrong place at the wrong time... All the men in my life are good men. But I can't say with certainty that I would be so lucky if not for a few quick decisions I've made from time to time, or precautions I took here and there. Safety and street smarts are absolutely essential. I just hope that we can also slowly change the way society thinks of these things - and thus maybe the frequency with which they occur - through education.

Yes, GhostGhost, JM is not only a serial killer, but a very experienced and sadistic malignant sexual predator/serial killer without a soul. The only way to prevent psychopathic sexual predators from escalating into prolific serial killers as JM has is to identify, apprehend, prosecute, and imprison them before they hone their skills for years or decades..

Awareness, trust your natural born instincts, adhere to common sense safety rules, and support stricter<misdemeanor> DNA laws are only a few ways to increase public safety for our families, friends, and loved ones.. Sexual predators seldom start out as serial killers, but virtually in all cases begin as peeping toms and petty criminals.. Once psychopaths reach serial killer status they will fool even the most experienced homicide detective...

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/investigators/serial_killers.html
Serial Killers - A Homicide Detective's Take
By Lieutenant Nelson Andreu (Retired)
Miami Police Department

Credentials and Interest
Common Knowledge
Genesis of a Serial Killer
Victim Selection
Victim Objectification
Denouement
Case Histories
1. Credentials and Interest
It was during my tenure of over 20 years as a homicide Detective and Detective Sergeant with the Miami Police Department that I investigated six serial murder cases. I like to think that the experience I gained in those investigations has given me a most rudimentary glimmer of understanding as to what motivates a serial killer in undertaking his atrocities.

<sniped - read more>

 

[Kale]

Somewhat random thought and definitely far from confirmed, but IF JM is in any way even partially responsible for the Alexis Murphy case, does that mean that he might not really have a very strict profile? I know we can't know any details about his alleged rape victims, but I wonder what age/race/walk of life they are. Also a thought I only had just now, considering how under reported sexual assaults are, god only knows many living victims he may have. It could be that his "day job" is rapist and he has a huge number of victims, and he just dabbles in murder, as horrific as it is to even say a sentence like that =(

I hope that, as in many cases, publicly revealing JM for what he is may encourage his silent victims to come forward.

 

[Foxfire]

Somewhat random thought and definitely far from confirmed, but IF JM is in any way even partially responsible for the Alexis Murphy case, does that mean that he might not really have a very strict profile? I know we can't know any details about his alleged rape victims, but I wonder what age/race/walk of life they are. Also a thought I only had just now, considering how under reported sexual assaults are, god only knows many living victims he may have. It could be that his "day job" is rapist and he has a huge number of victims, and he just dabbles in murder, as horrific as it is to even say a sentence like that =(

I hope that, as in many cases, publicly revealing JM for what he is may encourage his silent victims to come forward.

Kale, the answers to your questions will likely be found in this snipet of an article by Lieutenant Nelson Andreu (Retired)
Miami Police Department..

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/investigators/serial_killers.html
4. Victim Selection
How does a serial killer select victims? The traditional school of thought holds that generally they select victims based on certain physical and/or personal characteristics. This assertion presupposes that, within the mind of each serial killer, there evolves synthesis of preferred characteristics and, ultimately, a clear, specific picture of his "ideal" victim, be it male or female, black or white, young or old, short or tall, large busted or small, shy or forward, and so on. Then, when that "typical" serial killer begins an active search for human prey, he will go to certain lengths to capture and victimize only those individuals who closely fit the mold.

Unexpectedly, I have observed that most serial killers never actually find and kill their "dream victim." People fitting such detailed and perfected images may not only be hard to come by, but may also not be easily available in the venues haunted by "hunting" serial killers. So when that ideal victim cannot be found, and when their internal impetus becomes powerful enough, they will settle for a substitute. Ignoring for a moment the disparity between deviant human and normal feline behavior, a serial killer can be compared to a hungry lion that lies in wait for his favorite meal. It may be the lion knows an impala has the most tender or tasty meat. He waits for an opportunity to kill and eat the impala and in doing so may allow easy but not-so-attractive prey to pass unmolested. In time, hunger pains growing and no impala in sight, the famished lion will settle for an unwary bird that happens by. After devouring the bird, which gives his hunger a brief respite, the lion again has time to savor the taste of an impala, and the cycle begins again.

Like the lion, a serial killer just will not defer acting out his urge to kill simply because his "ideal" victim refuses to materialize at his beck and call. But his reason for settling for something less divulges from that of the lion. There are two basic, interrelated reasons for this disparity. The first centers on the extra caution exercised by a serial killer in his search for a victim; the second, upon the nature of the compulsion that drives him to violence.

<sniped read more @ link>

 

[Kale]

Kale, the answers to your questions will likely be found in this snipet of an article by Lieutenant Nelson Andreu (Retired)
Miami Police Department..

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/investigators/serial_killers.html
4. Victim Selection
How does a serial killer select victims? The traditional school of thought holds that generally they select victims based on certain physical and/or personal characteristics. This assertion presupposes that, within the mind of each serial killer, there evolves synthesis of preferred characteristics and, ultimately, a clear, specific picture of his "ideal" victim, be it male or female, black or white, young or old, short or tall, large busted or small, shy or forward, and so on. Then, when that "typical" serial killer begins an active search for human prey, he will go to certain lengths to capture and victimize only those individuals who closely fit the mold.

Unexpectedly, I have observed that most serial killers never actually find and kill their "dream victim." People fitting such detailed and perfected images may not only be hard to come by, but may also not be easily available in the venues haunted by "hunting" serial killers. So when that ideal victim cannot be found, and when their internal impetus becomes powerful enough, they will settle for a substitute. Ignoring for a moment the disparity between deviant human and normal feline behavior, a serial killer can be compared to a hungry lion that lies in wait for his favorite meal. It may be the lion knows an impala has the most tender or tasty meat. He waits for an opportunity to kill and eat the impala and in doing so may allow easy but not-so-attractive prey to pass unmolested. In time, hunger pains growing and no impala in sight, the famished lion will settle for an unwary bird that happens by. After devouring the bird, which gives his hunger a brief respite, the lion again has time to savor the taste of an impala, and the cycle begins again.

Like the lion, a serial killer just will not defer acting out his urge to kill simply because his "ideal" victim refuses to materialize at his beck and call. But his reason for settling for something less divulges from that of the lion. There are two basic, interrelated reasons for this disparity. The first centers on the extra caution exercised by a serial killer in his search for a victim; the second, upon the nature of the compulsion that drives him to violence.

<sniped read more @ link>

Wow, that is vomiticiously informative X_X Hungry lion is not a bad analogy at all. How scary that these people blend in.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I think my concern about VA with unsolved missing students/young adults along Rt. 29 drew me in to anyone missing in VA when Brittnee went missing, Morgan, Alexis and so on. Not like my state or any other state doesn't have their own missing. The finding of Hannah's remains is an answer finally, but so devistating for the families, friends & neighbors of all. My heart really goes out to all. Prayers that Hannah's family can " " no word to describe how one day they might word it. My heart goes out to them, the Harrington's and the rape victims that have everyone's support if theychoose to step up/have good evidence. Saddest day anyone could ever experience and my thoughts are with all who lose a family member that way and have had a family member harmed sexually. Prayers for all.

I'm just devasted for all of them. It's been such a sad time.

 

[zapped]

IMO we're going to see charges in both cases and soon thereafter a plea deal to avoid death penalty.

He can try for a plea deal but the judge doesnt have to accept it. Given the nature of JLMs crimes I'd honestly be very surprised and outraged if he did.

If there is a capital murder charge expect JLM to get the death penalty no matter how cooperative he is.

He deserves no less in my opinion for the hell he visited on those girls and the pain and suffering he caused their family, friends and the entire Charlottesville community.