Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[Heroine]

Bruce Leshan ‏@BruceLeshan 57m57 minutes ago Max Valles @big_black5 thanks for remembering #HannahGraham @wusa9 @UVa_Football

 

[bestill]

I said early on, he going to say he dropped her off. He's going to say he had no idea what happened to her. The good news is-- is that he no stranger to Old Lynchburg. He's also very Lazy in his mentality but drives fast. ( And drove fast through that area) He also ducked in the police station and asked for an attorney and then speed away. Saving his own narcissistic self. He's not going to be compliant and wasn't in this case. The forensic link to Fairfax is good... so he is now busted for the rape attempt. I don't think it took very long for Hannah to recognize he is a creep. I still find it odd that she was so close to her apartment and thought she was lost. As a second year sophomore.. that shouldn't happen.

See, that's what I don't get. She wasn't far from her apartment. ( The big question) Why would she get in that car? Was she forced? He must have bullied her.. but I can't see her getting in that car. LE has the car but have not released the results of her being in it. (fiber/hair samples- DNA)

He might have pulled out his taxi badge.. but she wasn't that far from her apartment.

I strongly feel he drugged her with the drink he bought at Tempo. I hope that LE found the drugs in apartment or car.

 

[themom]

BBM...so very true. I sometimes think we must all be weird, but weird in a good way. I know sometimes I will talk to co-workers about these cases (have talked a lot about this one), and invariably one or two will say "how do you know all this stuff? You must live on that site."

LOL I love WS! We really do pool together an amazing amount of factual information, coupled with really creative thinking.

 

[4 Free Speech]

JLM ordered 2 drinks and paid for them at 1:09am, according to "Tempo's computers". Why this "respectable bar" would let someone order "two drinks without the second person being present" so close to last call, is beyond me. I think he put a drug in her drink at approx 1:15am and they left at 1:45am. He most likely offered her a ride home.

My questions:

If she texted at 1:20am, saying she was lost, she most likely texted friends from Tempo... JMO.
Why did she say she was at 14th and Wertland?
15th and Grady where they found MH's Pantera shirt? Is this location close?
What was the address of JLM's apartment?

I need a map... Just thinking out loud. Something doesn't make sense.

From Coy's interview: http://insidecville.com/blog/ljs-timeline/

1:45am: Last Call
Abby does remember quite well seeing LJ Matthew and Hannah Graham walking away outside about a half hour later. “A lot of people were outside then,” she says. “It was a typical, crowded Friday night. I guess it was about 1:40 or closer to 1:45. I remember because it was definitely after last call.”
“He came out the side door,” she says of LJ Matthew. “I saw him come walking by and I thought, there’s that obnoxious guy from before. I noticed he had his arm around a girl. She was wearing a crop top.” Abby says it was days later, after she’d seen some video images on the news, that she recognized the girl. She learned that that same girl she’d seen on the Mall was a second-year University of Virginia student named Hannah Graham.
“When I saw her that night,” Abby says, “I remember thinking, she’s really drunk. She couldn’t walk well. She was slouched into him, leaning against him, like she was having difficulty standing up. He was talking to her, and his right arm was around her, not over her shoulder, not at the waist, but around her back and holding her right arm. He was holding her close, like he was almost holding her up. They walked away together up the street towards the Mall.”
That was about 1:45am on Saturday, September 13. That was the last time anyone remembers seeing Hannah Graham.

 

[cady]

Gray-Um is also the Canadian pronunciation.

and the Brits say garage (a French word) gare edge, while we hilljacks say gah rahge (which sounds a bit more French...lol just sayin' JMO

 

[bakerlady]

I would love to read more about this! Do you have a book title or link? As a parent, this idea is a little hard to swallow.
But you know what they say - ask 5 psychologists what makes a murderer, and you'll get 5 different answers...theories theories theories

Life is very complex. People can be born with all sorts of maladies. People are born schizophrenic, bipolar, diabetic, autistic, missing limbs, holes in their hearts, half of their brain missing. Anything is possible. This is why I have a hard time judging people to be evil. I judge their actions, not them.

A little off topic but I looked up the boy from the recent school shooting and there are three pages set up for mourning his death. Some people are furious that his family made these FB pages and call him all kinds of names and an evil piece of scum, etc. It is interesting how the Native Americans view things differently. It is an ideology I agree with 100%.

A loss of life is always sad. It is always someone's child or brother, sister or parent. You never really know what is going on in someone's body or mind and when they kill it is just as much a tragedy for them as it is for their victims. Something is obviously terribly wrong in their minds.

It also reminds me of this little girl Jani who was featured on Oprah. She was born severely schizophrenic and the story is just so sad. The videos are on youtube if you are interested. Search 'jani schizophrenia'.

 

[TheBunk]

To be fair, most bars I have ever been to usually allow you to purchase two drinks at once (that is usually the limit)

 

[makista]

I really believe he drugged her. She is 5' 11" and was seen running on video within the hour. Suddenly, he is holding her up? My hypothesis is that he told her he would bring her into the safety of a bar, ordered her a drink, and drugged her. By then she wasn't coherent enough to say no to leaving with him.

Hypothetical equation-- She acted drugged way before the bar. She was lost when being less than a mile from her apartment and texting friends and saying she was lost. She was also running then walking. She was walking as if she was training for a triathlon, in a place she had been familiar with for over a year. If JM put something in her drink, it was sooner than the bar. If, he added anything at the bar it perhaps killed her. ( if earlier in the evening she was already on something else and A) didn't know it B) slipped into her drink C) Being recreational)-- JMO

 

[jamicat]

See, that's what I don't get. She wasn't far from her apartment. ( The big question) Why would she get in that car? Was she forced? He must have bullied her.. but I can't see her getting in that car. LE has the car but have not released the results of her being in it. (fiber/hair samples- DNA)

He might have pulled out his taxi badge.. but she wasn't that far from her apartment.

I think that JM approached just the right way just as she was feeling tire, was inebriated, confused, lost--turned around, and the prospect of having to walk back to the Corner was just so discouraging. She may not have had her UVA ID on her, didn't see her carrying a purse, so a taxi without money or card would be an issue. And then this very kind stranger says," what's the matter honey? You look lost. Can help you?" Says he works at UVA medical center, used to drive a cab ,and his car is right here. He'll be glad to give her a ride. This is someone used to talking to college student,s upscale people. He went to college works at a major med center, coaches at a private school. He, by all accounts, can b as charming as could be

Plus she's in a nice mall, not some dumpy place, and only a few minutes away. He's very open about being with her. They stop at Tempo, an upscale place, where he probably got her a beer which she likely welcomed being tired, thirsty from her walk/run and having drunk a bit too much earlier. All those people saw him with her; he was a regular ther. So she probably felt it would be just fine. It's not like he was driving her much of a distance at all. She' be back in her area in a matter of minutes.

Something for everyone to take into serious consideration She was a smart young woman Public place, Short distance. Guy was a smooth and pleasant as could be. What could go wrong? What were the chances of him being a serial killer. Beat up car? So what. She's a college student, just 18. A lot of her friends, peers, classmates likely drive beat up junkers. She simply wasn't careful when she should have been, but seriously what were the odds that this would have happened?

 

[alreetlike]

Gray-Um is also the Canadian pronunciation.

I'm sorry to get into this again but it's a crucial part of what makes Hannah so special to me. If I were to marry my "better half" my surname would be Graham, pronounced as above. It's the surname my much loved nieces and nephews have. It's why the thought of poor Hannah reduced to bones in a dried up creek bed keeps me awake at night. I feel like she could be family.

 

[jamicat]

Hypothetical equation-- She acted drugged way before the bar. She was lost when being less than a mile from her apartment and texting friends and saying she was lost. She was also running then walking. She was walking as if she was training for a triathlon, in a place she had been familiar with for over a year. If JM put something in her drink, it was sooner than the bar. If, he added anything at the bar it perhaps killed her. ( if earlier in the evening she was already on something else and A) didn't know it B) slipped into her drink C) Being recreational)-- JMO

Though I doubt it will ever be proven, unless JM comes clean about it, my guess too, is that he put something in her drink to make her woozier. He had the opportunity, and I can't see any other reason why he'd take that detour, spend that money when he had a "hot one" in his clutches. He would have wanted his victim less able to make trouble for him. But even if LE should find any such drugs in JM's possession, proving he gave it to Hannah doesn't seem possible to me. Enought that they can prove that they took her to that abandoned locale and killed her.

 

[jamicat]

I just have a hard time believing he was taking 5 year breaks between committing these awful crimes. Maybe there are examples of rapists/killers like this, but I'm not aware of them.

It's possible we may never know, but considering he raped and attempted to kill someone in Fairfax means that there could be potential victims anywhere he traveled in the past 10-15 years.

I so agree with you. I can't believe there aren't other victims as well. Hopefully some or all of them are still alive and step to let us know.

 

[makista]

Though I doubt it will ever be proven, unless JM comes clean about it, my guess too, is that he put something in her drink to make her woozier. He had the opportunity, and I can't see any other reason why he'd take that detour, spend that money when he had a "hot one" in his clutches. He would have wanted his victim less able to make trouble for him. But even if LE should find any such drugs in JM's possession, proving he gave it to Hannah doesn't seem possible to me. Enought that they can prove that they took her to that abandoned locale and killed her.

They can test one of his hair follicles. He has enough of it and it will tell them exactly what drugs were in his system and about what month. Hair follicles don't lie. What would be great is if toxicology can be performed on Hannah. ( I think JM is an alcoholic and that's why he is sporadic)

 

[keiki kahala]

I so agree with you. I can't believe there aren't other victims as well. Hopefully some or all of them are still alive and step to let us know.

I heard of one...she ran away and hid for 2 hours. (at that park that starts with a "C", where they were searching)

 

[dove28]

Something for everyone to take into serious consideration She was a smart young woman Public place, Short distance. Guy was a smooth and pleasant as could be. What could go wrong? What were the chances of him being a serial killer. Beat up car? So what. She's a college student, just 18. A lot of her friends, peers, classmates likely drive beat up junkers. She simply wasn't careful when she should have been, but seriously what were the odds that this would have happened?

Agree. Since he is a regular in the downtown area too, even if HG didn't know LJ (I don't think she did), it's quite possible she knew someone there who knew him. ("Oh that's LJ, we see him around here all the time"). I don't think it's that outlandish that she went with him. As a young female I've gotten rides with people I didn't know before (albeit always women). It was just a ****** thing (understatement) for HG that this guy happened to be a predator.

 

[klily444]

Something else crossed my mind.....more than once. The family of Hannah will have to go through her belongings. My mind cannot fathom or comprehend the ordeal of it all. Birthdays once celebrated, holidays enjoyed with one another, vacations together, will never ever be the same. This is just briefly touching on some of what the future holds for the Graham family. Heartbreaking comes to mind, unbelievable anguish.

Everyone reacts and feels differently when this kind of tragedy strikes. I can say for myself that when my spouse passed away (and we were so young), my only solace was the belongings. I took about 50 shirts from the closet and had a quilt made out of those shirts, so I could comfort myself when I needed it. I hope that these ideas that I would have never thought of myself are mentioned to the Grahams. The last thing I parted with, years later, is the surfboards, and after that day, I started looking forward instead of wishing for the life I no longer had.

 

[dove28]

Though I doubt it will ever be proven, unless JM comes clean about it, my guess too, is that he put something in her drink to make her woozier. He had the opportunity, and I can't see any other reason why he'd take that detour, spend that money when he had a "hot one" in his clutches. He would have wanted his victim less able to make trouble for him. But even if LE should find any such drugs in JM's possession, proving he gave it to Hannah doesn't seem possible to me. Enought that they can prove that they took her to that abandoned locale and killed her.

There was some speculation that he left her pants because she defecated/urinated on them as she was dying. Depending on how long she was alive before she was killed, it's perhaps possible that some would up in urine and could be retrieved from the pants. This is total speculation and I doubt it's possible (would have most likely been washed away in the rain if it even made it into her urine), but who really knows. Same goes if there was any vomit on scene.

Also depending on the rate of decomposition:
"When insects satisfy their hunger, they eat not only the body, but whatever was in the body (like drugs), allowing pathologists to analyze the insects for indications of what was in the deceased person's system at the time of death. Insects collected from the body reveal time of death with surprising accuracy, and predeath intoxication, too. Many drugs, including barbiturates, benzodiazepines, opiates, and cocaine, can be detected by examining insects in the lab"

http://asdf.japha.org/article.aspx?articleid=1035844#DeterminingDrugUseorAbusePostmortem

 

[Piaget]

Though I doubt it will ever be proven, unless JM comes clean about it, my guess too, is that he put something in her drink to make her woozier. He had the opportunity, and I can't see any other reason why he'd take that detour, spend that money when he had a "hot one" in his clutches. He would have wanted his victim less able to make trouble for him. But even if LE should find any such drugs in JM's possession, proving he gave it to Hannah doesn't seem possible to me. Enought that they can prove that they took her to that abandoned locale and killed her.

Am still hoping LE found a beer bottle with their prints/DNA and a trace of date rape drug--certainly evidence of intent to defile!

 

[Justice101]

I just have a hard time believing he was taking 5 year breaks between committing these awful crimes. Maybe there are examples of rapists/killers like this, but I'm not aware of them.

It's possible we may never know, but considering he raped and attempted to kill someone in Fairfax means that there could be potential victims anywhere he traveled in the past 10-15 years.

I have a theory that he is genuinely repentful after he does it and tries to mend his ways and be kind to everyone... only for his evil ways to take back over years later...when the opportunity arises when he gets rejected and she is really drunk.

 

[Charlie Chan]

I have wondered for a long time if the "intent to defile" stemmed from what they found in his car or apartment, the most likely item being evidence of him having posession of a date-rape drug.