Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[Skigirl]

evidence of her in the trunk with handcuffs/zipties, and any sex "toys" or "accessories" perhaps

A friend of mine who's a defense attorney said you don't need anything like this for "intent to defile" charges. Just the belief that the intent was rape. You do not need evidence other than being able to convince a judge that there wouldn't be other reasons to abduct the person.

 

[Mercedes]

It would be prejudicial evidence. Unless there is some link between the two victims I doubt evidence in either case can be brought up.
Video is circumstantial, to convict of murder the DA will need to show more evidence

You could bring the prior criminal conviction up during the sentencing phase. I agree judge would rule it would be prejudicial.

 

[ThinkHard]

restraints (zipties or cuffs or something) with Hannah's DNA on them. A bottle or can in the car which has her DNA and possibly traces of some sort of drug (rufie)

I'd be inclined to think there were not any bottles or cans. They had just left a bar, and at least one was already highly intoxited. I doubt JLM had some cold ones waiting for them. And I'm guessing they didn't stop at any convenience stores, as they (likely) headed south on the back roads s from the downtown mall to where her body was found.

 

[mysterious minds]

It also makes sense to me that, once they impounded JM's car, they would have brought in the cadaver dogs to see if they "hit" on the car. They would have had a pretty good idea that she was already dead, and we'd probably never have seen quite the scale of searching that we did see.

JM didn't know he was going to get caught. He could have planned on going back to the house or wherever he had her. Could she have been held captive but lost the battle due to untreated wounds, hunger, hypothermia?

 

[makista]

I do not believe she lived near Charlottesvilles since she was 7 or 8. She was from Alexandria....a good 2 hours North.

Okay, she lived in Alexandria ( I've been corrected twice-- thanks everyone) I guess what I referring to, is I knew where every mall was in AR by the time I was eighteen. I also knew where all the malls were in KS (Wichita), Texas and Oklahoma as well.

 

[mysterious minds]

Downtown Mall is not your typical "mall". Denver has the 16th Street Mall. Similar setting. Several blocks meant for foot traffic only with various retail and restaurants. ALL walks of life milling around. C'ville's downtown mall doesn't have a "college vibe" so I can believe it not being a place that the college kids can easily make sense of late Friday night after several drinks. Many have probably only been there to have lunch or dinner when parents are in town.

 

[ThinkHard]

JM didn't know he was going to get caught. He could have planned on going back to the house or wherever he had her. Could she have been held captive but lost the battle due to untreated wounds, hunger, hypothermia?

Jmo of course, but I don't think cadaver dogs hit on a sent in the car because she was always alive in the car, not because she was still alive for a while after. I can see LE stating they had no reason to think she was dead. Meaning no cadaver scent, no copious amount of blood. But I think its only because he never transported her, while she was dead. I think bot HG and MH had a straight drive from getting into JLM cars to the places their bodies where found, and I believe they were both killed, on the same night they were taken. Nothing makes me think he kept them alive.

 

[cluciano63]

I do not believe JM kept her alive past an a few hours. He was in mid-move, had no place for himself, even. Imo not like he had a vacation house and he did show up at apartment sometime on Saturday. Not that that proves anything, but Jmo. I think he got rid of her quickly.

 

[ThinkHard]

Cville, downtown mall.

Just to get those unfamiliar with the loose use of the word "mall" based on what most might picture.

 

[Meemaw12]

View attachment 62296 Cville, downtown mall.

Just to get those unfamiliar with the loose use of the word "mall" based on what most might picture.

That looks like our main street here, up until the 80's, it was Balto St, cars drove up and down both ways, then the Mayor decided to lay brick, plant trees and it was closed off to thru traffic. Now they have Fri after 5, bands, food etc.
I have been to C-ville back in the 90's, but only to the hospital. Beautiful area.

 

[ThinkHard]

Excellent links, tlcya... Imo, JM began his trail of terror at a very early age, likely in his teens, and very possibly prior to being moved out to the country. Although, preventing JM getting involved with gang activity was the explanation for the move. Imo, there is more to the story than what is being shared publicly .. Imo, JM has escalated over approximately two decades, and as more information comes to light, of JM's past during the judicial process. We will all likely be fastening our seat belts... JMO

http://www.practicalhomicide.com/articles/psexsad.htm
Psychopathic Sexual Sadists
The Psychology and Psychodynamics of Serial Killers

By Vernon J. Geberth, M.S., M.P.S.

This article examined serial murderers, who violated their victims sexually, as reported within the journalistic, academic, and law enforcement literatures. The study focused on the practical application of the clinical criteria of Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD) and Sexual Sadism as defined in The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV.

The goal of this study was locating within clinical literature specific references of behavior which could be utilized in "predicting future dangerousness" of serial killers who were described as "psychopathic sexual sadists."
<sniped - Read more>

If Cville has a big gang problem, its pretty under the radar. Though there are definitely some projects, which I could see some activity happening in. But I can't see it being how someone might move out of the Bronx to avoid gangs.

 

[tlcya]

Thanks Foxfire. I hope you don't mind, I copied your post over to the armchair psych eval thread here as I think it will be very useful for those of us pursuing that topic.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-and-Non-Professional-Opinions-Theories/page5

 

[SolVol]

I'm hopeful for the pants carrying DNA. I want JM to be NAILED.
I seem to recall that about MH, too.
I wish we knew the evidence...
Does anyone know if they had found sperm DNA on something in his car, would that be the "intent to defile" charge? JM is a despicable excuse for a human and deserves nothing less than death himself.

I've been thinking life without parole in the general prison population at a facility known for most ruthless population would be his just desserts. This rapist, who loves to strangle, beat and terrify women to death should get a big dose of his own medicine for the rest of his life.

 

[SolVol]

I agree. When she first went missing ( or on the first thread) I did notice her stance upon leaving her apartment building. When I brought it up, everyone said, "She always walked with a purpose" and then I got feedback as to her apartment in the picture was never shown ( which was wasn't where I was going with this anyway) Upon leaving her apartment building, I noticed when she saw the two people in the hallway, she kind of arched forward with her body and acted kind of surprised, then turned around and started walking the other way immediately with her arms above her waist. It's just body-language that I am talking about really but her head was tilted upward when walking away. I thought then, that maybe she didn't want to go back to her apartment.. but she walked like that all night and it was almost like she was biding time to go back to her apartment and with the routes she took. ( pure speculation, but an observation) and then the getting lost part. She had lived in Charlottesville ( or close) since she was 7 or 8 years old, and I find it strange that she never went to the downtown mall. I don't see how the downtown mall should be viewed as somewhere to get lost. To me, I don't know why she should be using a GPS. Also, she lived on/close to campus for a year and a half.

I thought Hannah Graham was from Alexandria. Morgan Harrington grew up in Charlottesville. Her father is a psychiatrist and professor at UVA.

 

[3filles]

I've been thinking life without parole in the general prison population at a facility known for most ruthless population would be his just desserts. This rapist, who loves to strangle, beat and terrify women to death should get a big dose of his own medicine for the rest of his life.

If I'm not mistaken, I don't think rapists are thought very highly of within the social order of prisons so your wish may just come true...

 

[ThinkHard]

I thought Hannah Graham was from Alexandria. Morgan Harrington grew up in Charlottesville. Her father is a psychiatrist and professor at UVA.

Morgan is not from Cville, she's from Lynchburg, south of Cville, and closer to Blacksburg where she was a student at Virginia Tech. As far as where her dad taught, I don't know, but teaching at UVA, would have been a big commute from Lynchburg.

 

[CvilleMother]

Morgan is not from Cville, she's from Lynchburg, south of Cville, and closer to Blacksburg where she was a student at Virginia Tech. As far as where her dad taught, I don't know, but teaching at UVA, would have been a big commute from Lynchburg.

Morgan is from Roanoke. I think her father was at one time on the faculty at UVA but they moved to Roanoke when she was a toddler.

 

[Concerned Mama]

Um, Morgan was from Roanoke, folks.

ETA link:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/morgan-har...virginia-tech-student/story?id=9701648&page=2

"Testerman said she is particularly feeling the loss. She and Harrington were part of a close-knit group of girlfriends who called themselves "The Nine."

"Helm, whose daughter Chelsea was one of "the nine" and who frequently had the group over to her Roanoke home"

 

[bessie]

​

 

[ThinkHard]

Um, Morgan was from Roanoke, folks.

ETA link:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/morgan-har...virginia-tech-student/story?id=9701648&page=2

"Testerman said she is particularly feeling the loss. She and Harrington were part of a close-knit group of girlfriends who called themselves "The Nine."

"Helm, whose daughter Chelsea was one of "the nine" and who frequently had the group over to her Roanoke home"

Thanks for straightening that out, Lynchburg and Roanoke are close and in the same direction away drom cville, I got them confused.