Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

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Assuming the house is occupied, I wonder if the neighbor across the street from the cottage may have noticed any commotion at or around the cottage that night, assuming he pulled into the driveway of the cottage (instead of the driveway of the main house). Neighbor's house has a first floor window of sorts facing the driveway of the cottage (it looks like that from Google street view), and brake lights of a car pulling into the driveway of the cottage may have been highly visible in pitch dark (and possibly the sounds of the engine being turned off as well). That cottage and the neighbor's house are awfully close but you'll need a curious light sleeper I guess (Google view).
 
ThinkHard said:
Why would being a native increase her chances of having finger prints?
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No-you have it backwards. Is she not originally from England? I was speculating on whether or not "resident aliens" who come here to live have their fingerprints on file with the government. I don't know if they do or not (but it might be helpful to LE's investigation if they had her fingerprints so they'd know if anything that they found in his car was touched by her)
 
Jmoose said:
No-you have it backwards. Is she not originally from England? I was speculating on whether or not "resident aliens" who come here to live have their fingerprints on file with the government. I don't know if they do or not (but it might be helpful to LE's investigation if they had her fingerprints so they'd know if anything that they found in his car was touched by her)
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I don't know if they do, but even if they did, I wouldn't think if she moved here as a child, they would have taken a child's prints.
 
I wonder if they could pull her prints from personal items in her room...hair brush stuff like that...if they needed them for comparisson.
 
cthink said:
Assuming the house is occupied, I wonder if the neighbor across the street from the cottage may have noticed any commotion at or around the cottage that night, assuming he pulled into the driveway of the cottage (instead of the driveway of the main house). Neighbor's house has a first floor window of sorts facing the driveway of the cottage (it looks like that from Google street view), and brake lights of a car pulling into the driveway of the cottage may have been highly visible in pitch dark (and possibly the sounds of the engine being turned off as well). That cottage and the neighbor's house are awfully close but you'll need a curious light sleeper I guess (Google view).
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Yep. Tail lights are very visible at night, at dawn and twilight. He may have taken precautions on that dinky car, like disconnect the lights, but he doesn't strike me as high functioning on fine motor skills, more of brute force type, and driving without tails would mark his car to police and others. So I'm guessing that he parked, stopped some place around there where the chances of him being seen during those hours were slim, and walked along easy paths, to serve his needs, as they may have been, to where the remains were found. It was stated by a neighbor to Hawes Spencer, if I recall correctly, that 'he knew where to go.' So, would any one who knew him, but may have not of known him to be a rapist and a murder, know where may have liked to go to dry out, around there? If anybody does, hope they tell?
 
ThinkHard said:
I don't know if they do, but even if they did, I wouldn't think if she moved here as a child, they would have taken a child's prints.
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They may have. I had my fingerprints taken in first grade (early 80s, though).

You can have it done at your local police station for your kids, or order a kit online (LE sometimes do promotions where they give the kits out for free, also)
 
I think JM likely was familiar with MH and HG dump sites. Where he dumped HG it just seems like he was familiar with the place. It's like he knew the property was abandoned and not far into the forest behind it is a creek. He may have felt it would be a good dump site because it is unlikely someone would be walking in the forest back there since the property is abandoned and throwing her in the creek would kind of conceal her body you would have to be walking by the creek to see it. In regards to MH dump site her father visited it and he says that the person who dumped her body was likely familiar with the area but I forgot what led him to think that.
 
Jmm124567 said:
I think JM likely was familiar with MH and HG dump sites. Where he dumped HG it just seems like he was familiar with the place. It's like he knew the property was abandoned and not far into the forest behind it is a creek. He may have felt it would be a good dump site because it is unlikely someone would be walking in the forest back there since the property is abandoned and throwing her in the creek would kind of conceal her body you would have to be walking by the creek to see it. In regards to MH dump site her father visited it and he says that the person who dumped her body was likely familiar with the area but I forgot what led him to think that.
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A great many reasons, pertinently and richly informed conclusions, very worth taking a look at, as it relates to now: here, below and preceding threads

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...n-Fairfax-Rape-Victim-*Forensic-Link*-to-MH-3
 
Memorial established in remembrance of Hannah Graham
Students place flowers, write messages to Graham
by Carson Creasy and Kelly Kaler | Oct 27 2014 | 13 minutes ago
http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2014/10/memorial-established-in-remembrance-of-hannah-graham

Student Memorial For Hannah Graham At UVA
Katie Brooke reports from there, today
http://www.wset.com/story/27018709/student-memorial-for-hannah-graham-at-uva

Hannah Graham memorial goes up in Charlottesville
Wavy Published on Oct 26, 2014
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xen4Xj0INj4

UVa Students Honor Hannah Graham
by Loren Thomas Sun 11:32 PM, Oct 26, 2014
http://www.newsplex.com/home/headlines/UVa-Students-Honor-Hannah-Graham-280471782.html

UVA Student Leaders Set Up Memorial to Remember Hannah Graham
Cat Boardman Oct 26, 2014 6:36 pm
http://www.nbc29.com/story/27018940/uva-student-leaders-set-up-memorial-to-remember-hannah-graham

Hannah Graham case inspires Hoggle search volunteers
Stephanie Ramirez reports posted 12:19 am October 27, 2014
http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/loc...ggle-volunteers-missing-jacob-sarah/17976689/
 
What a terrible weekend for the Graham family. Heartbreaking that their daughter is gone.
I don't think JM drugged Hannah, I think she either knowingly or unknowingly had taken Molly or Ecstasy that Friday night. The kids do Molly to party all night, she appeared hyper on surveillance videos, and JM probably offered her something to drink when they met and a side effect of ecstasy is thirst and dehydration. She was at the wrong place at the wrong time. I just hope something is learned by all these college kids - that it is never ok to leave your friends or let them leave you. As for JM, LE is probably waiting to gather enough evidence to charge him with Morgan's death as well as Hannah's, abd they will be capital murder charges.
 
ThinkHard said:
I don't think murder is the first thought with this guy. I think to him murder is lumped in with disposing of evidence and dumping the body....I think he gets his kicks from rape.
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Yes, ThinkHard, I so agree about that. I think he follows his selfish desires to their ends, heedless of the humanity of his victim each time, because such considerations would get in the way of his desires. And then after he has used these girls against their will for his own pleasure, he murders them simply for his own convenience so that his life won't be interrupted by the legal system. And until he set his eyes on Hannah, that had worked out very well for him. Rape was his private game, pursued outside the framework of his family, his respectable job, and his volunteer service; murder was just him cleaning up after himself. It was, I truly believe, that rote and meaningless to him to take the life of another human being and to destroy the fabric of a family again and again each time, by taking a much-loved and essential part of that family away from them. It all boils down to your final words: "he gets his kicks from rape." Nothing else mattered to him.
 
themom said:
They may have. I had my fingerprints taken in first grade (early 80s, though).

You can have it done at your local police station for your kids, or order a kit online (LE sometimes do promotions where they give the kits out for free, also)
Click to expand...

I was actually replying to someone's comment regarding if she would have finger prints done when she moved here from England.

Not wether kids are ever finger printed in general or not. (As in safety programs that encourage parents to get stuff like that on file).

I was only saying I doubted her moving here from England would have yielded finger prints, even if they take them from immigrating adults, as she was only a child.
 
Jmm124567 said:
I think JM likely was familiar with MH and HG dump sites. Where he dumped HG it just seems like he was familiar with the place. It's like he knew the property was abandoned and not far into the forest behind it is a creek. He may have felt it would be a good dump site because it is unlikely someone would be walking in the forest back there since the property is abandoned and throwing her in the creek would kind of conceal her body you would have to be walking by the creek to see it. In regards to MH dump site her father visited it and he says that the person who dumped her body was likely familiar with the area but I forgot what led him to think that.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that he had to know the area, at least in a general,sense, where the quiet roads are, stuff like that. Come to think of it, I grew up in a spread out area, heavily wooded, not rural but rural parts. In high school I knew all the side roads, back roads, the roads few people traveled, or cops rarely went...why? Teenage stuff...woods parties, parking spots, spots to go smoke marijuana. If JLM grew up around here, its possible he could have been familiar with the area for similar reasons.

Also I just wanted to point out that where HG was found it wasn't really abandoned property. It just wasnt currently being occupied. It was owned, on the market for a bit even, and was trying to be rented. To me abandon building is like one that's run down, and no one claims, or is caring for. This was t me a propert, without current residence. Anyway the simple semantics, change to me, what JLM would have known about that location, and perhaps more importantly why he would have known about that location. Its not like he knew of an old, long since abandon property no one goes too. This house was different then that. He would have specifically have to have known, that no one was CURRENTLY living there. It strikes me that it simply wouldn't have been enough to have seen the house listed on rental, or on a for sale sight, and know it wasn't being occupied. Because plenty of places for sale or rent still have current tenants. Perhaps he visited with the landlord and knew no one was there? I dunno that seems also too premeditated for this guy. I'm not convinced he was a planner, beyond strike when there was an opportunity, and he had a "hunger" (which seems stronger in the fall btw). More likely I'd be willing to bet he had a conversation in the days and weeks before at some point about that very house, and someone mentioned they were trying to rent it, but no one was living there, in a casual conversation way. Then when he had HG and started driving, he thought of that place.
 
zapped said:
I keep coming back to the statement made by Chief Longo that "Hannah had her world turned upside down" that night.
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That quote bothered me from the minute it came out of Longo's mouth. He was so measured in his words-I felt like he was "saying something" else. At the time, I wondered if it was a message to her then-abductor, or based on cell phone info, or details her friends had supplied.

Her friends have showed great restraint in not giving out info of that night to the media. As witnessed by a SO talking to the press about condition of remains, even professionals don't follow evidentiary rules when they are approached at times.
 
zapped said:
I keep coming back to the statement made by Chief Longo that "Hannah had her world turned upside down" that night. Reportedly she was drinking at the party and I think a lot of people have left it at that.

When I hear hear the words "world turned upside down" theres no immediate connection with drinking, and Im from the area so would be familiar if the expression were used that way here.

Maybe it is in other parts of the country and if so it would be great if someone could clarify???

My thinking is that Hannah received a shock that night. Examples would be going to the party and catching her boyfriend cheating with a friend,having a bad breakup, hearing that a close relative or friend had died, or that her parents were divorcing or losing their job(s), putting her schooling in jeopardy.

All just examples of course.

To me that would explain her behavior that night and her appearing to be lost in an area she should have been familiar with. She may have just been walking as an instinctive way of dealing with whatever pain or emotions caused this state and was so deep in thought that she failed to realize where she was headed. Some of us dont like to sit still when were upset.

Ive done this.

Once during a bad breakup, I got in my truck and started driving and when I realized where I was at I had driven all the way to Tennessee to visit my grandma's grave.

If something like this had happened to Hannah it would certainly explain why she seemed to be blowing off her friends that night as well.

In addition, her state of mind and emotional duress could have caused her to be much drunker than normal.

Food for thought at least.
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Really great insight. I think you might be onto something. This sounds like a really good reason for a lot of her behavior that night. Escape is very powerful. I can definitely understand why she might just want to start walking and get away and even being sort of aloof with her friends. Also I always thought it was weird her roommate(s) didn't report her missing sooner. Not in a blame game way. But I have wondered before if perhaps she was fighting with, or upset with someone she lived with. That to me might make me understand why her roommates wouldn't have been that alarmed to not see her sat morning. They could still think she just needed her distance and time.

I can also see how learning something that would rock your world, would put you in a state of mind that was like f-it, and one might use more reckless caution, particularly with strangers.

I know way back, there had been speculation that she might have consumed a date rape drug, at the UVA party, do you think perhaps someone could have tried to do something to her at that party? Causing her to want to flee? But embarrassed about it enough to not tell her friends? Or did she tell them and they didn't believe her or blamed her, or told her she was over reacting? That would make me want to get away from my friends too. Or if it were perhaps a boy I trusted, who was dating a roommate, and they tried something...that would rock my world.



Hmm I wonder. Your point is so good, it really makes me think that while whatever happened to HG before she started her walk, wasn't in all likelihood what led to her death, but may explain sooooo soooo much about her behavior and choices that night.

I doubt, if things of this nature had happened to HG, before leaving the UVA area, and it involves other UVA students, we will ever hear a peep about it! UVa doesn't like scandal, and sexually aggressive boys to ruin their squeaky clean image.
 
DizzyB said:
That quote bothered me from the minute it came out of Longo's mouth. He was so measured in his words-I felt like he was "saying something" else. At the time, I wondered if it was a message to her then-abductor, or based on cell phone info, or details her friends had supplied.

Her friends have showed great restraint in not giving out info of that night to the media. As witnessed by a SO talking to the press about condition of remains, even professionals don't follow evidentiary rules when they are approached at times.
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I don't know if discretion so much as hard handed "advice" from heads of school and LE, to stay mum.

Also maybe if they were arguing....(totally based on theories just discussing)....lets just say if I was her friends, and that were the case, I wouldn't want to go reporting inside information on my fight with my now dead friend to the media. And quite truthfully, even if they weren't, if it were my friend, speaking to the media would be SO far from my mind, I would be too consumed with grief and worry.
 
DizzyB said:
That quote bothered me from the minute it came out of Longo's mouth. He was so measured in his words-I felt like he was "saying something" else. At the time, I wondered if it was a message to her then-abductor, or based on cell phone info, or details her friends had supplied.

Her friends have showed great restraint in not giving out info of that night to the media. As witnessed by a SO talking to the press about condition of remains, even professionals don't follow evidentiary rules when they are approached at times.
Click to expand...

At that point in this case the only info Longo COULD have had would be from Hannahs friends/roommates and immediate family.

Something that was said by at least one of them led him to make that statement.
 
Jmoose said:
No-you have it backwards. Is she not originally from England? I was speculating on whether or not "resident aliens" who come here to live have their fingerprints on file with the government. I don't know if they do or not (but it might be helpful to LE's investigation if they had her fingerprints so they'd know if anything that they found in his car was touched by her)
Click to expand...

Searching I found that children under 14 may be an exception.

However. http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/article/chapter5.pdf

Was Hannah a naturalized citizen?

eta: probably not; you have to be 18 or older

:gaah: eta again: if her parents were naturalized before her 18th birthday then she is automatically a citizen.

Automatic U.S. Citizenship After Birth - But Before the Age of 18

The child was under 18 from December 24, 1952 to February 26, 2001

The child was residing as a Green Card holder in the U.S. and both parents naturalized before the child’s 18th birthday;
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http://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-parents
 
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