Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[ThinkHard]

No offense, ThinkHard, but I don't think your comparison is a valid one. Backpacks ARE easier to carry than drag, that's why they're called backpacks and have straps to fit shoulders. Also, actually carrying a body would leave more potential incriminating evidence. Although carrying would not leave drag marks, I doubt that would be a concern in either case. JMO. Btw, do you carry your dog or walk it on a leash, or does it just depend?

Since I don't bring my dogs places against there will and drug them i tend to let them walk on their own four feet.

Look I guess we just have a difference of opinion on this matter, to me its glaringly obvious that carrying a victim, for him, would have been so ridiculously easy, i cant imagine why he'd resort to any other way.

You believe differently. So lets just agree to disagree.

 

[ThinkHard]

Here's what I posted a little while ago, but I can't find it now.
My understanding from this article and from what I remember hearing at the time was that the sighting was actually about 2 weeks prior to the reporting of that sighting. Which is in itself another bizarre thing about this case- but I think perhaps it was just someone thinking they must have seen him once the MH Sketch photos started being posted on the media after HG went missing. But JMO.

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/lexi...-case/28095082

I'm only seeing them same "several days after" not two weeks. I'm not trying to be nit picky...its just I can't help but notice that it would have been remarkably easy for JLM to have continued on down old lynchburg road away from Cville, and followed country roads all the way to Lexington. And considering his where about are unaccounted for....where was he?

And maybe we shouldn't discredit the Lexington sighting completely...especially when we really can't say when it was called in....maybe he knows someone in Lexington....

 

[ZsaZsa]

Ha good point!

I guess I just don't think his size vs her size, deceased, incapacitated, alive, I don't think it would have been an effort for him to carry either of them. And what I meant was, if you consider something you would carry, like a hiking backpack while you are hiking....would it be easier to carry it over your back?mor drag it on the ground, across roots, and rocks. I think if you had the size means for a human body to be easy to carry as a backpack....I doubt you'd drag it. Dragging would also leave more evidence.

Yes, he likes the caveman approach. According to the women who were so upset with his behavior on the mall that evening, he makes a habit of picking women up and throwing them over his shoulder. That seems to be his 'thing'.... I've seen comments from other friends that he does that all the time.

 

[jamicat]

I think the reason that LE have been on that property for so long is that they are examining every square inch to see if any signs of what happened there can be reconstructed. Hopefully, Hannah, her pants, the terrain all have some evidence. At the time of the morning that JM likely got to the property, neighbors were likely asleep and did not note anything. If Hannah were in the condition that the checker at Tempo noted, she may not have put up much resistance, and it would be merciful if she went in an unconscious or unaware state.

Attorneys are speculating that the Fairfax case might be the strongest one of the three. We don't know yet, since the evidence has not been shared with us, but it could be true. If all LE can do is prove that Hannah was with JM that night, was the last person they can trace to be with her, that she was in his car even, but no other evidence , it might well be an uphill fight in court. There's certainly not been the speed to slap more charges on JM in Hannah's case and MH's, as there was in the Fairfax case. Hannah's case might well hinge on the evidence found on that property and whether LE can link JM to the property.

 

[ILOKAL]

From wdbj7, on Sept 16th: "Police say the apparent sighting happened two weeks ago off campus, but they wouldn't say why the person waited so long to report it."
http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/lexi...-case/28095082

One of the reports says 9-15-14 (ONE day after Hannah was reported missing) and the one at readthehook.com says 9-16-14. In any event, the sighting can't have anything to do with Hannah's disappearance, unless . . . . Do we know if the report of the sighting two weeks prior to the 15th-16th was made anonymously? I sure would like to know that. If it WAS, perhaps JLM MADE that report to take the heat off the Charlottesville area. JMO

 

[strawb93]

Two thoughts....I believe I read that JLM was astranged from his mom? Did anyone else read this? I wonder if so, for how long, and if presently try were on speaking terms. I just question how often he would have been visiting mom, if they weren't on good terms.

My other thought is JLM worked in Cville, volunteered in Cville, and enjoyed Cville nightlife....I'd think he'd be more likely to live closer then a 25 minute commute to Cville downtown. There's plenty of places to rent for all sorts of different prices. That house seems a little far out for him to consider it for a rental.

His mother now lives in Nelson county and has done for a year. So there would be no recent link to that area, though that's not to say he wasn't still in contact with old neighbours.

In the early days of the investigation his grandmother was quoted as saying he told his mother that he did buy Hannah a drink but the two went their separate ways. I have been estranged from my parents in the past and at that time I wouldn't have gone to them even if I was in as much trouble as JLM knew he was.

Also, if he used to commute to Cville for school when he lived out there with his mum then 25 minutes is really nothing to some people, and especially to someone who liked the outdoors. I have always lived rurally and any commute under 30 mins I wouldn't find extreme or unusual.

 

[Foxfire]

Originally Posted by ILOKAL View Post
No offense, ThinkHard, but I don't think your comparison is a valid one. Backpacks ARE easier to carry than drag, that's why they're called backpacks and have straps to fit shoulders. Also, actually carrying a body would leave more potential incriminating evidence. Although carrying would not leave drag marks, I doubt that would be a concern in either case. JMO. Btw, do you carry your dog or walk it on a leash, or does it just depend?

Since I don't bring my dogs places against there will and drug them i tend to let them walk on their own four feet.

Look I guess we just have a difference of opinion on this matter, to me its glaringly obvious that carrying a victim, for him, would have been so ridiculously easy, i cant imagine why he'd resort to any other way.

You believe differently. So lets just agree to disagree.

The first rule of prey is gaining compliance of the unsuspecting innocent victim. Compliance is achieved by many different methods. Once total compliance is gained by the sexual predator/serial killer, the victim will usually cooperate with their demands. There have been prior cases documented where the predator used dog leashes to humiliate and control the victim..

Bobby Joe Long(FL)
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/long/index.html
<sniped>
She was found face down, her wrists tied together loosely behind her back around eight inches apart, and a noose draped three times around her neck. It appeared to have been used as a leash, with a hangmans slipknot

 

[MJPeony]

I'm only seeing them same "several days after" not two weeks. I'm not trying to be nit picky...its just I can't help but notice that it would have been remarkably easy for JLM to have continued on down old lynchburg road away from Cville, and followed country roads all the way to Lexington. And considering his where about are unaccounted for....where was he?

And maybe we shouldn't discredit the Lexington sighting completely...especially when we really can't say when it was called in....maybe he knows someone in Lexington....

No, I don't think you're being nit-picky, but I do think now maybe I've gone looney and I'm seeing things, b/c I definitely see it It's right here:

"Harrington disappeared in October 2009 after leaving a concert at the John Paul Jones Arena in Charlottesville. Her body was found three months later.

Lexington police have not been in contact with anyone matching the description.

Police say the apparent sighting happened two weeks ago off campus, but they wouldn't say why the person waited so long to report it."
-from wdbj7

Someone, please tell me I haven't lost my marbles and they can see it!

 

[ILOKAL]

Yes, he likes the caveman approach. According to the women who were so upset with his behavior on the mall that evening, he makes a habit of picking women up and throwing them over his shoulder. That seems to be his 'thing'.... I've seen comments from other friends that he does that all the time.

I DID read the account of the women in the bar the night Hannah went missing, but I don't recall any other comments about him doing that all the time. Of course I just might have missed it. Could you please provide a link?

 

[ThinkHard]

Here's what I posted a little while ago, but I can't find it now. (ok, found it- it's back a page)


My understanding from this article and from what I remember hearing at the time was that the sighting was actually about 2 weeks prior to the reporting of that sighting. Which is in itself another bizarre thing about this case- but I think perhaps it was just someone thinking they must have seen him once the MH Sketch photos started being posted on the media after HG went missing. But JMO.

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/lexi...-case/28095082

Thinking...the report was issued to students in the Tuesday after Hannah went missing, she was reported missing on that Monday....which means they wouldn't have even been showing the videos, or made the MH connection to pass around the sketches at that point. And if the call really was 2 weeks prior....I doubt it was the HG case that prompted the sighting....so weird huh!

I wonder if he had friends down in Lexington, maybe he would go down to visit....go out and party.....the report states the sighting was off campus...but since it was reported that way, it makes me think it was a student, who was off campus when it happened who reported it. I wonder if maybe this person is friends, with whoever jesse might be friends with down in Lexington. Maybe met him at a house? Or out at a bar? Perhaps it was a female, and he got too touchy with her, or assaulted her....and her delay in reporting had to do with feeling shame, or maybe she kept questioning if she thought it was really him? Just thoughts...

 

[ksj3]

Two thoughts....I believe I read that JLM was astranged from his mom? Did anyone else read this? I wonder if so, for how long, and if presently try were on speaking terms. I just question how often he would have been visiting mom, if they weren't on good terms.

My other thought is JLM worked in Cville, volunteered in Cville, and enjoyed Cville nightlife....I'd think he'd be more likely to live closer then a 25 minute commute to Cville downtown. There's plenty of places to rent for all sorts of different prices. That house seems a little far out for him to consider it for a rental.

The farther out in the "country" you get, the lower the prices. He was quite familiar with that area and probably felt good there, plus it offered him privacy for any activities - from poker to anything else. It also puts him literally within walking distance of a nice fishing spot, Walnut Creek.

We drove that road yesterday. It's quite literally a straight shot to Covenant, 15 minutes/8 miles, with no traffic. One left turn and you're at the hospital. No "in town" traffic to deal with at all. Much shorter commute than from the other side of town through traffic. Would make perfect sense for a "country boy" to want to live there, particularly if the price was right.

 

[ILOKAL]

No, I don't think you're being nit-picky, but I do think now maybe I've gone looney and I'm seeing things, b/c I definitely see it It's right here:

"Harrington disappeared in October 2009 after leaving a concert at the John Paul Jones Arena in Charlottesville. Her body was found three months later.

Lexington police have not been in contact with anyone matching the description.

Police say the apparent sighting happened two weeks ago off campus, but they wouldn't say why the person waited so long to report it."
-from wdbj7

Someone, please tell me I haven't lost my marbles and they can see it!

Yes, I see it and I also read it up thread at the link provided.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Ha good point!

I guess I just don't think his size vs her size, deceased, incapacitated, alive, I don't think it would have been an effort for him to carry either of them. And what I meant was, if you consider something you would carry, like a hiking backpack while you are hiking....would it be easier to carry it over your back?mor drag it on the ground, across roots, and rocks. I think if you had the size means for a human body to be easy to carry as a backpack....I doubt you'd drag it. Dragging would also leave more evidence.

I was thinking back to the report in the bar where the girl said that JLM picked her and her friend up and put them over his shoulder. If that is the case, he would have no trouble picking up either Hannah or Morgan and carrying them where he wanted to take them. The only reason I can think of for anyone to drag something is if they lacked the strength or height to carry it, or had an injury or was afraid of getting an injury.

ETA: I can carry a 90 bag of cement on my shoulder. Why would I drag it if I can do that? I'd have to bend over and it would be more effort.

 

[ThinkHard]

I DID read the account of the women in the bar the night Hannah went missing, but I don't recall any other comments about him doing that all the time. Of course I just might have missed it. Could you please provide a link?

I've wondered this too. I sort of wonder if he was particularly keyed up tat night....so his behavior was even more bawdy and over the top then normal.

 

[ILOKAL]

The farther out in the "country" you get, the lower the prices. He was quite familiar with that area and probably felt good there, plus it offered him privacy for any activities - from poker to anything else. It also puts him literally within walking distance of a nice fishing spot, Walnut Creek.

We drove that road yesterday. It's quite literally a straight shot to Covenant, 15 minutes/8 miles, with no traffic. One left turn and you're at the hospital. No "in town" traffic to deal with at all. Much shorter commute than from the other side of town through traffic. Would make perfect sense for a "country boy" to want to live there, particularly if the price was right.

I DID read that the smaller cottage on the property had recently been rented. Hmmm, who WAS that recent renter? A poker pal?

 

[jamicat]

Duct tape. If JM drugged HG, and I believe he did, he could have duct taped her mouth while she was out. Sadly, that seems to be a common MO. . .drug the victim and then tie them up and silence them before they come to.

ETA- maybe that's what happened at the park. Its more isolated if she ran or screamed there. But for whatever reason the actual attack happened behind the vacant house.

Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2

I don't think he needed to silence Hannah, sadly, if he did drug her. I think she'd have still been out of it by the time he got to that location, and he'd just have to pull her out of the seat, and take her where ever however he wanted to do so, drag carry, try to goose step her along. I think he just killed by strangulation or snapping her neck when he was done. I think this was an easy do for him.
MH, a whole other story. My guess would be she fell asleep in the cap or had her mind on other things as she was going "home", she told her friends, which is long way, and didn't pay much mind as to where the taxi was going. She was not fully capabel at the time anyways. My guess is that JM stopped, got out, and somehow got her out of his cab, whether with a well placed blow in the face that was unexpected. He's a big guy, and MH would have no chance against him. Once he punched her and dragged her out of the cab, he could just beat her into submission and drag her anywhere. When he killed her and how, we don't know but the autopsy report apparently has a COD according to Gil Harrington.

For Hannah, however, I don't think there was much screamining or running.

 

[ILOKAL]

I was thinking back to the report in the bar where the girl said that JLM picked her and her friend up and put them over his shoulder. If that is the case, he would have no trouble picking up either Hannah or Morgan and carrying them where he wanted to take them. The only reason I can think of for anyone to drag something is if they lacked the strength or height to carry it, or had an injury or was afraid of getting an injury.

OR, wanted to try to avoid getting certain evidence On them or their clothing.

 

[MJPeony]

Thinking...the report was issued to students in the Tuesday after Hannah went missing, she was reported missing on that Monday....which means they wouldn't have even been showing the videos, or made the MH connection to pass around the sketches at that point. And if the call really was 2 weeks prior....I doubt it was the HG case that prompted the sighting....so weird huh!

I wonder if he had friends down in Lexington, maybe he would go down to visit....go out and party.....the report states the sighting was off campus...but since it was reported that way, it makes me think it was a student, who was off campus when it happened who reported it. I wonder if maybe this person is friends, with whoever jesse might be friends with down in Lexington. Maybe met him at a house? Or out at a bar? Perhaps it was a female, and he got too touchy with her, or assaulted her....and her delay in reporting had to do with feeling shame, or maybe she kept questioning if she thought it was really him? Just thoughts...

All possible, yes. I guess he certainly could have had friend down there and the sighting could be legit. I don't have any reason to believe it WASN'T a legit sighting other than the fact it did come in after HG disappeared (you brought up an interesting point about the news of HG not yet being released, but I'd have to go back and see if the Sketch really hadn't been made public yet. You could be right.). Something just seems too coincidental that it would suddenly (b/c it apparently had happened 2 weeks prior) be reported he was sighted. After soooo long.

Anyway, it would be interesting to find out if the call-in was anonymous as ILOKAL wondered.

(Apologies mods if we're OT... sometimes the connections to the threads starts to bleed together.)

 

[ThinkHard]

His mother now lives in Nelson county and has done for a year. So there would be no recent link to that area, though that's not to say he wasn't still in contact with old neighbours.

In the early days of the investigation his grandmother was quoted as saying he told his mother that he did buy Hannah a drink but the two went their separate ways. I have been estranged from my parents in the past and at that time I wouldn't have gone to them even if I was in as much trouble as JLM knew he was.

Also, if he used to commute to Cville for school when he lived out there with his mum then 25 minutes is really nothing to some people, and especially to someone who liked the outdoors. I have always lived rurally and any commute under 30 mins I wouldn't find extreme or unusual.

I know people keep making references to hunting and fishing, and being a country boy....but do we actually know that JLM was an outdoorsman type. I just don't see him hunting, and fishing....I see him as one who grew up in the country because his family was poor and it was cheap. Not so much as a country loving boy....but maybe I missed something, and you guys can fill me in.

 

[Charlie Chan]

The farther out in the "country" you get, the lower the prices. He was quite familiar with that area and probably felt good there, plus it offered him privacy for any activities - from poker to anything else. It also puts him literally within walking distance of a nice fishing spot, Walnut Creek.

We drove that road yesterday. It's quite literally a straight shot to Covenant, 15 minutes/8 miles, with no traffic. One left turn and you're at the hospital. No "in town" traffic to deal with at all. Much shorter commute than from the other side of town through traffic. Would make perfect sense for a "country boy" to want to live there, particularly if the price was right.

Thanks. That was a part of my original "theory" and....he might have negotiated a rental agreement that included maintaining the property i.e. mowing the grass, etc. Anyway, the homeowner would be able to answer all of these queries but she was silenced immediately by LE. ?