Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[Foxfire]

FoxFire, are you asking me to re-post the links that have been posted numerous times by many posters? Hmmm, I have no idea where exactly they are except I know the interview referring to Sept 30th is on this thread and the other ones are on previous threads that refer to the searches. You can consider it my opinion, if you like.

<BBM for Focus>

Yes, ILOKAL, because according to the following msm article Mr Pugh states that he only agreed to one interview;

Va. man talks of buzzard sighting near remains

Read more: http://www.wtop.com/41/3725983/Va-man-talks-of-buzzard-sighting-near-remains#ixzz3HOKtIFCT

Like most people in the Charlottesville region, Pugh was aware that 18-year-old Hannah Graham was last seen early Sept. 13, and that Jesse Matthew had been arrested and charged with abducting her.

Police had been asking land owners to search their properties, but since the home had been for sale, Pugh wasn't sure it had been checked.

Pugh was initially reluctant to call the tip line, because he didn't want to distract detectives from other angles of the investigation.

"In the back of my mind I was like, 'Maybe I should call the tip line, I'd feel bad if I didn't call,'" says Pugh.

At the time, Pugh recalled the one-story home had been for sale for a few years.

"I had thought about stopping in and checking it out, but the 'For Sale' sign was gone now, and I thought. 'Maybe someone purchased it, I don't want to be a trespasser.'"

Pugh called the tip line, and felt a wave of relief for sharing his observation.

In retrospect, Pugh says learning skeletal remains were discovered in a dry creek bed behind the home didn't surprise him.

"It's in the middle of nowhere, it's been abandoned for a few years, there's access to the back of the house where you can hide," Pugh says. "When I saw the buzzards, I was thinking two plus two plus two equals six."

On Sunday, Pugh says he got a phone call from an Albemarle County police detective with follow-up questions about his tip.

Pugh was reluctant to discuss his role in providing the tip, but says he agreed to one interview at the recommendation of his mother.

Several phone calls and texts to Charlottesville and Albemarle County police seeking comment were not immediately returned.

 

[Meemaw12]

according to Coy Barefoot on CNN this evening, he talked with man who called in the tip Oct 6th again this morning, said man was 20 yr vet, Seal.
Man said he walked on the property behind the house, was within feet of Hannah but didn't see her. Said it was a creepy feeling with all the vultures there. He left.

http://www.cnn.com/go/ 3 parts to the show this evening. Also showed pics of JM in high school (year book photos)

So there were 2 tips called in by different men about the vultures. One in Sept, one in Oct.

ETA: it's the Wolf Blitzer show at 5 est.

 

[Emaa]

Though I can't find anything to tell me how long a body must be dead before the dogs detect the smell.

This study, within 3 hours.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17403590

(the article re the study) http://www.pawsoflife.org/Library/HRD/Oesterhelweg 1998.pdf

Cadaver dogs do not only signal upon finding putrefied human tissue or old remnants of blood, they further signal when detecting a recently deceased body.

Fascinating article. The research describes using carpet squares exposed for 2 and 10 minutes to bodies that were 110 and 120 minutes postmortem.

 

[Jmoose]

I don't see JM as carrying anything really. If he is going to do anything, it would be easy. I can see him running over her and just leaving her there. To be honest, JM really doesn't fit the profile of these two. It's really hard for me to see him dumping HG. He may have rolled her out of the car seat.. He pretty much sees people as trash.. ( JMO)

I probably should take a break until he is convicted.

Don't do that

 

[ILOKAL]

Wouldn't she have had some obvious reaction to that, though, in front of witnesses? I know nothing about stun guns, but I would think they'd hurt/cause an immediate drop to the ground and scream.

It's more of a collapse of the legs and since she was seemingly already being held up by this BIG guy, any response should go unnoticed.

 

[4MYGUYS]

briefed respectfully

You're right on, there, with the pulled hamstring. The perp seems to have been ham-handed, the way he handles people. Did he get some perverse pleasure doing that coming off like some lumbering doofus, where as, he may have known to hold back from that kind of ham handedness in other circumstances, like the reports from colleagues and friends? I keep thinking about his trespassing charge for not understanding his car's oil change wasn't going to fix his problem. Well, at his age, how could he not understand an oil change enough to get angry? Seems wussy somehow. And then of course, where did he get his car fixed? Did it leak oil?

I think with his friends he probably WAS as obnoxious, but they knew what to expect, and they accepted his behavior. I think the guy at the bar was caught by surprise as they had just met, and were both wrestlers. JM was good at surprise attacks it seems, and unfair fights. Would like to see how he would fare against an opponent of his own weight class today, then again, maybe that will come later.... JMHO etc.etc.

 

[Foxfire]

On the Record Fox News Greta VanSusteren__ NEXT

'Searching for clues'..

 

[Emaa]

i was thinking of brake dust as well.

so what happens now? I kind of feel like we are at a stand still.

We are.

LE and CA made it quite clear they aren't talking.

 

[ksj3]

It's more of a collapse of the legs and since she was seemingly already being held up by this BIG guy, any response should go unnoticed.

But then why would she not fight at that point, if it's only legs collapsed and she's alert and oriented? She was able to walk, even if being supported. If I was "stunned' by something that caused my legs to buckle but allowed me to walk and keep my head erect, I'd sure as heck be screaming about it.

 

[FindHG]

I agree; I don't think any of his victims ever saw him as a potential interest, and likewise, his only interest in them was only to satisfy the sadistic side of him. We don't know that he forced them into the car, but he certainly used their vulnerabilities to get them wherever it is he wanted them to be. We can surmise, obviously, that HG had no intention of willingly going to OL Drive on Sep 13, and that she was in no frame of mind to make sound judgment or decisions, if she could make any at all.

I certainly am not able to really speak to the state of mind of Hannah Graham or the predator who left her in that dry creek bed, but it has been done a lot for the perp, in order to help find her. And I keep coming back to that nagging feeling that she may have made it happen - that they had to be seen leaving, that it speaks to her state of mind, that he was exposed that night leaving with her. That it may point to his grabbing, sending a misleading text, disabling then ditching her IPhone. That it may have been her state of mind, resisting, that needed to be worn down with the drink, as he may have laid his trap, but ended him up in jail.

 

[ILOKAL]

<BBM for Focus>

Yes, ILOKAL, because according to the following msm article Mr Pugh states that he only agreed to one interview;

Va. man talks of buzzard sighting near remains

Read more: http://www.wtop.com/41/3725983/Va-man-talks-of-buzzard-sighting-near-remains#ixzz3HOKtIFCT

Like most people in the Charlottesville region, Pugh was aware that 18-year-old Hannah Graham was last seen early Sept. 13, and that Jesse Matthew had been arrested and charged with abducting her.

Police had been asking land owners to search their properties, but since the home had been for sale, Pugh wasn't sure it had been checked.

Pugh was initially reluctant to call the tip line, because he didn't want to distract detectives from other angles of the investigation.

"In the back of my mind I was like, 'Maybe I should call the tip line, I'd feel bad if I didn't call,'" says Pugh.

At the time, Pugh recalled the one-story home had been for sale for a few years.

"I had thought about stopping in and checking it out, but the 'For Sale' sign was gone now, and I thought. 'Maybe someone purchased it, I don't want to be a trespasser.'"

Pugh called the tip line, and felt a wave of relief for sharing his observation.

In retrospect, Pugh says learning skeletal remains were discovered in a dry creek bed behind the home didn't surprise him.

"It's in the middle of nowhere, it's been abandoned for a few years, there's access to the back of the house where you can hide," Pugh says. "When I saw the buzzards, I was thinking two plus two plus two equals six."

On Sunday, Pugh says he got a phone call from an Albemarle County police detective with follow-up questions about his tip.

Pugh was reluctant to discuss his role in providing the tip, but says he agreed to one interview at the recommendation of his mother.

Several phone calls and texts to Charlottesville and Albemarle County police seeking comment were not immediately returned.

I KNOW he said he only agreed to ONE interview because his mother wanted him to. But then he proceeded to give several more interviews. What can I tell you. Only ONE guy saw the black vultures and reported it AND gave several varying interviews. You need not take my word for it, they're all online. One was as recent as this past Saturday on CNN, I believe. A local reporter held the sign that allegedly was left in JLM's old apartment and then showed the interview with Mr. Pugh with the September 30th date.

 

[ksj3]

according to Coy Barefoot on CNN this evening, he talked with man who called in the tip Oct 6th again this morning, said man was 20 yr vet, Seal.
Man said he walked on the property behind the house, was within feet of Hannah but didn't see her. Said it was a creepy feeling with all the vultures there. He left.

http://www.cnn.com/go/ 3 parts to the show this evening. Also showed pics of JM in high school (year book photos)

So there were 2 tips called in by different men about the vultures. One in Sept, one in Oct.

ETA: it's the Wolf Blitzer show at 5 est.

Too bad he left. But, if he was that close to her and didn't smell her, the vultures must not have been there for her or she was significantly upstream or at least partially buried - or I guess already devoured, but then why would the vultures hang around and why would he not see her? We had those heavy rains nine days later.

Oh, that only leaves more questions!

 

[Jmoose]

Running over someone gets messy, forensically. I don't think he wanted to get caught, and I don't think he wanted a missing persons DNA all over the outside of his car. I definitely don't think he ran over HG, and with MH (which we can discuss further in her thread) he wouldn't have been able to get his car to the location she was found. So, he either carried, dragged, or made his victim walk, IMO.
You said JM doesn't fit the profile of his victims. Did you mean to say that those two specific victims don't fit JM's profile? In your opinion, what do the profiles represent? Meaning, what do you mean when you say the profiles don't fit? Are you talking about disposal, the act itself, the looks or background of the women? Just would like some clarification, thanks.

We don't know when MH's bones were broken, do we? Have LE (or anyone else who is official) said that her bones were broken at the time of her death? I am thinking that this isn't any sort of clue to JLM's actions-and may have happened accidentally after JLM left her there. In my opinion, JLM subjected both of these girls to the same things, and that MH may have been run over by some kind of farm vehicle before she was discovered.

 

[ILOKAL]

according to Coy Barefoot on CNN this evening, he talked with man who called in the tip Oct 6th again this morning, said man was 20 yr vet, Seal.
Man said he walked on the property behind the house, was within feet of Hannah but didn't see her. Said it was a creepy feeling with all the vultures there. He left.

http://www.cnn.com/go/ 3 parts to the show this evening. Also showed pics of JM in high school (year book photos)

So there were 2 tips called in by different men about the vultures. One in Sept, one in Oct.

ETA: it's the Wolf Blitzer show at 5 est.

There was only ONE man, Mr. Pugh, who saw the black vultures and called in the tip. He has used varying dates as to when he saw them in a minimum of three different interviews. IMO

 

[4 Free Speech]

date rape drugs often have the same effect -- and they're much easier to use in public than a stun gun, respectfully.

From personal experience I think she was roofied with the last drinks he ordered. It would take about 30 minutes to take effect. Just the driving time to 3193 Old Lynchburg. Scary to think that she probably knew what was going on....when they were driving up to that creepy red house. This was really happening.

Originally posted 20 days ago

What it's like to be "roofied". Here is my first hand experience with the "date rape" drug. Popular at Fraternities and University parties and killers. Thank God I had someone there who took care of me until the ordeal passed. This is what it is like.

" It was a feeling of being outside my body with no control to speak or ask for help. The only way my friend knew I was in trouble was "through my eyes pleading for help". Call the hospital I tried to say, but nothing came out. A man came in the room and tried to kiss and rape me and my friend pushed him off me. I was completely helpless". It took about 4 hours to feel somewhat normal again.

If these girls had been drugged it would be so easy for someone to rape them, take them somewhere, sell them. I believe Hannah is either in the woods somewhere, you'll probably find her skull and bones (signature of the serial killer) , like they did with Morgan Harrington.

 

[otto]

Thank you for the kind reply. I could not figure out why his blog was being quoted so frequently. Much appreciated.

He's not so much a journalist ... moreso someone involved in media, especially history.

"Coy Barefoot is an award-winning and best-selling author, media personality, and engaging historian and teacher, a much sought-after speaker, and Ironman triathlete. ...He is the Editor-in-Chief of uvahistory.com, an online magazine and community dedicated to the history of the University of Virginia, the UVA Corner, and Charlottesville.

Coy is a graduate of the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia where he studied Anthropology, Archaeology, and Latin. He did his graduate work at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville where he earned his Master’s Degree studying Media Anthropology. His thesis focused on the implications of a 24-hour news cycle pioneered by Ted Turner’s Cable News Network."

http://www.coybarefoot.com/bio/

 

[ILOKAL]

Too bad he left. But, if he was that close to her and didn't smell her, the vultures must not have been there for her or she was significantly upstream or at least partially buried - or I guess already devoured, but then why would the vultures hang around and why would he not see her? We had those heavy rains nine days later.

Oh, that only leaves more questions!

That's the first time I've heard him say he walked behind the house. In his "first" interview, he said he saw the black vultures Oct. 5th. It nagged him so he returned Oct. 6th. He saw no vultures. He walked a bit on the property and began to feel awkward feeling he might be trespassing since there was no longer a For Sale sign on the property. So he stopped, left the property, and at "exactly 9:45 AM" on Oct. 6th, he called in the tip.

That is quite different than any subsequent interviews he has given.

 

[Meemaw12]

There was only ONE man, Mr. Pugh, who saw the black vultures and called in the tip. He has used varying dates as to when he saw them in a minimum of three different interviews. IMO

Just writing what Coy Barefoot said on CNN this evening, he said 2 people called in tips, he also said another time, he saw the man's phone with the date (Oct 6th) that man called in tip.

I guess someone on FB can ask MR Pugh if he was a Seal and served 20 yrs in the military.

I have no idea.

 

[Charlie Chan]

First of all, I have to ask, why does my post at the beginning of your thread show it was originally posted by Charlie Chan and his original post shows it was posted by me? I am the one who suggested it was the attorney. I think if posts are going to be copied and pasted, they need to accurately reflect who posted what. Down the road I don't want to be credited with having posted something I never did post. Regarding these same two posts, someone else originally copied and pasted them incorrectly. I hope whoever has mis-posted them the first time as well as any subsequent ones will kindly take the time to make the correction.

Now, as far as poor reporting, that's not the answer in two of the cases as I actually "heard" and "saw" on videos two of Mr. Pugh's interviews, each with the contradicting (September 30th vs. October 5/6th) dates. Maybe it's just me, but I think it's a valid question that needs to be answered.

Thanks for pointing out the reversed quote attributions and not that it is at all important, but I'm actually a gal. I just used Charlie Chan because he was a famous screen detective in the 40's...I've seen all of his movies. They are campy but entertaining.

 

[FindHG]

I think with his friends he probably WAS as obnoxious, but they knew what to expect, and they accepted his behavior. I think the guy at the bar was caught by surprise as they had just met, and were both wrestlers. JM was good at surprise attacks it seems, and unfair fights. Would like to see how he would fare against an opponent of his own weight class today, then again, maybe that will come later.... JMHO etc.etc.

And may have also viscerally seen the hamstring guy as competition, the same way he saw Hannah Graham from across the mall as prey, that we see.