Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

[AL18Wood]

Understood whiskers and maybe i didn't effectively communicate my point. It's not so much the naivety and inexperience with drinking as it is sense of.letting Ines guard down that i was trying to emphasize. Sadly, I and many acquaintances had at least one frightening moment during our HS drinking days that led us to become more guarded during our college yeara. It's not that NO is dangerous but more that certain areas (particularly uptown around the universities) tend to be frequently targeted by armed assailants, etc. I was car jacked in HS after a late night out with friends. I've had many friend who were mugged or at minimum had an assailant attempt to rob them at some.point and it almost.always occurred after going out when returning to a car or walking on foot to a nearby hpuse. No exaggeration. Our experiences led us to be more guarded and all I was trying to say was that we came to realize that when alone or in small groups even, after heavy drinking, at night we were definitely more likely to be targeted. Criminals often seize such advantages particularly when it comes to female victims. Perhaps Hannah had not had any personal experiences to make her more suspicious and guarded. I believe she truly felt the situation was innocent and didn't look at herself from the outside and say "Hannah, sober up for a minute is this a good idea?" I think she accepted whatever means through which he lured her into his car at face value and honestly didn't question his intentions at that moment in time. I guess I didn't communicate my entire thoughts effectively on my previous post but sometimes I do better by getting it out there then refining it after seeing how others interpret.. and this is all just food for though I realize I may not know as many specifics about her life experiences but I wanted to share my basic feelings about how this could have been seen in her mind at the time and why she may have seen it that way.. I appreciate your providing details about her experiences though. More insight into Hannah and how she became the woman she was always help to better my understanding of the entire situation.. again all MOO

 

[Daae]

Not to discuss AM and RAT here at all, but am wondering if anyone recalls what evidence was found for RAT to initially be charged with Abduction with the Intent to Defile? I don't know what additional info they found to up that to muder charges...

Wanting to get an idea of what LE considers evidence for that charge, from a past similar case. It may give us an idea of what evidence they have on JM.

Perhaps LE found large plastic tie wraps, the kind they use in place of hand cuffs . These are used to bind feet and hands. Also, duct tape or her shoes would reveal a possible crime of abduction took place.

 

[Heroine]

It was Dave Hansen, former Assistant Pastor and friend of Jesse Matthew, who coined the phrase "gentle giant" in an inteview.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/no-bond-for-abduction-suspect-in-university-of-virginia-missing-case/

"I always thought he was a gentle giant, just a nice guy," Hansen said. "He seemed genuine with his faith and spirituality. ... I don't see him doing this at all, but that's usually the case, I guess."

Hansen said he's only kept up with Matthew through Facebook but ran into him at the university's medical center within the last year. He said the soft-spoken Matthew greeted him in an elevator with a high-five.

I laughed @ Dave Matthews! lol Sorry.

 

[hambirg]

How do you know he bought beer? And maybe he didn't drug her. Maybe murder was not even the first thing on his mind. He may have thought she would likely have sex with him consensually. I think he saw HG as some drunk, easy club girl partly due to the crop top she is wearing. I'm not blaming the victim I'm just saying a decent amount of guys who see a girl wearing a crop top walking through an area at 1am where there are a lot of bars are going to think she is some drunk, easy club girl. I truly don't think he would have murdered HG if she had consented I would think he would keep her around because she would likely have sex with him in the future. I don't think murdering is his thing I think sex is where he get's his thrill. He murders them so they won't tell on him like the two girls at the universities did.

It was reported that he bought two beers. I'm not sure why it would be reported that way if it wasn't true. LE pulled his financial records and I assume that is easlily verifiable. It really doesn't matter what he ordered for her.

I will say 3 allegations of rape and two dead co-eds, doesn't really point to a guy just looking to hook-up. If sex is his thing he could have paid a prostitute. He didn't. Btw, sex is kind of everybody's thing. Most people don't find themselves in jail suspected of being a serial killer, so I'm not buying the "only looking for sex" angle. I'm also not one to normally call victim blaming, but implying that if Hannah would have just consented to sex with JM she would still be alive, is naive at best. All of Gary Ridgway's victims consented to sex with him before he killed them. Consenting didn't spare them their lives.

MOO

 

[Charlie Chan]

I laughed @ Dave Matthews! lol Sorry.

So did I when I saw what I had done! And, Dave Mathews is from Charlottesville! But definitely not a pastor.... LOL!~

 

[Heroine]

So did I when I saw what I had done! And, Dave Mathews is from Charlottesville! But definitely not a pastor.... LOL!~

Maybe that song "Crash into me" ( I think thats what it's called) lol anyway maybe that song is about JM's driving record.

 

[FindHG]

Maybe that song "Crash into me" ( I think thats what it's called) lol anyway maybe that song is about JM's driving record.

Hey. Hope you're well and thanks for all the news links.

 

[ILOKAL]

A stun gun wouldn't go unnoticed in a bar setting I would think, they make a snapping sound. Plus, I looked them up and they are nothing like a taser such as police use. Stun guns seem to cause pain but not lack of muscle control. I just read a forum about them and the consensus was they're worthless for defense or incapacitating someone but fun to play with when you and your friends are drunk. You can watch videos on YouTube of people getting stunned, I didn't see anyone get incapacitated.

Tasers have the two prongs that shoot out and those do incapacitate but only for about 30 seconds. They require a felony background check. I doubt JM would go for that, there would be a record of it. Unless there's a black-market for them, I don't know.

Both are legal in Virginia. Only stun guns where I live. I learned something new today, thanks.

I was referring to the laser with two prongs which is sometimes, perhaps incorrectly, referred to as a stun gun. Here's some general information:
http://www.womenonguard.com/-strse-template/stun-dsh-gun-dsh-info/Page.bok

 

[ILOKAL]

I'm not sure if you are referring to video taped interviews or ones in print. I would just like to say, in defense of anyone ever interviewed by a journalist, before jumping to the conclusion that the person quoted has lied or been deceptive... Remember that the person assembling the story has their own agenda, whether it is to "punch up" the story or present a certain point of view... Not to mention all the other people who are involved in editing that story in one way or another before it reaches the public. Any one of those people is capable of making a mistake, misstating facts, misquoting a subject... I am always amazed at how many variations I can find in stories involving simple auto accidents.
I would hate to be called a liar based on how a journalist presented my story ( no offense to journalists!)
I must admit that I am not local and do not know the people or the area so perhaps you are working from more hard facts than me.

He clearly lied about giving only one interview which he said he only did because his mother asked him to!? And, in defense of even the worst journalist, how do you misinform the date(s) of September 30th and October 5th/6th? Several of them would have had to do this, as a matter of fact? I'm not saying Mr. Pugh's story is hinky, but there's SOMETHING wrong with it!

 

[ILOKAL]

I apologize if this has already been addressed, been away from the thread and still catching up, but please provide any evidence supporting her taking these drugs knowingly.

AFAIK, there has been ZERO evidence of such reported.

I was just telling my friend yesterday that (although I grew up in the Mesozoic age many decades ago), I still clearly remember what it was like to be a teen and looked on with suspicion just because we were that age and adults just knew that at that age we were illicitly...doing whatever the news was reporting teens did illicitly.

Yeah, some kids do Molly or ecstasy or whatever. Not ALL kids.

Assuming Hannah did simply because of her age, without any supporting evidence is just mean and unfair and victim bashing, IMO.

ETA: And she doesn't look hyper to me on those surveillance videos.

I've been meaning to say this for a while, so I will in response to your comment that Hannah doesn't look hyper on the surveillance videos. As I re-watched the videos the other day, I noticed how Hannah was walking, and to me it looked like her feet hurt. What kind of shoes was she wearing? My daughters are much older than Hannah and STILL have a hard time walking in certain high fashion shoes. They kind of look like little girls playing dress-up.

 

[FindHG]

I've been meaning to say this for a while, so I will in response to your comment that Hannahndoesn't look hyper on the surveillance videos. As I re-watched the videos the other day, I noticed how Hannah was walking, and to me it looked like her feet hurt. What kind of shoes was she wearing? My daughters are much older than Hannah and STILL have a hard time walking in certain high fashion shoes. They kind of look like little girls playing dress-up.

Yep. That struck me too. Especially around McGrady's which is around the time she had been running, she looks like she's walking with discomfort, not so much woozy. That is where you see her tuck her phone in her back pocket or waist. We don't really know what her conversation with the bouncer there was like, but she must have maintained a brisk pace and her shoes didn't look comfortable for running. I had the same thought watching her over and over again too, so nice to know you had the same idea. It'd be interesting to know where along the mall a bus going back to The Corner area near her new off-campus housing may have been? If she may have been heading for a bus to try to catch one back? It would make some sense possibly that it may have been her instinct, given that she'd helped a girl who needed help onto a bus, according to her own tweets.

From one hoo to others, for Hannah Graham
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j7G4vxoDF8
http://lyricstranslate.com/en/me-llaman-calle-they-call-me-street.html

 

[Emaa]

I can't find FoxFire to quote, but I agree. I do believe the house, or cottage as you all call it, is pivotal in this case. Especially the basement. I never understood the gate. I think he tooled up the drive in his car. For years he's alluded LE. Never caught. It's late at night and he knew the house was not occupied or perhaps he knew it was recently rented. You can see the door to the basement area.

Something could have happened in the basement area. Hate even typing this. He could have left her there dead and then returned next day to bury in shallow grave. We all see the clay. The clay in my area of VA. is difficult to even dig a hole for a hydrangea. Forget putting in a pool. The clay stops everything. There is often normal topsoil, but then you begin digging several feet and it's complete brown and red clay. I see him digging a shallow grave. Thus finding in creek.

Or he could have left her in basement tied up. He realized all of the media attention and went back. Although I feel he did something awful that Saturday early morning.

I do feel the house has more secrets than we know. And knowing VA state police they won't let us know until a trial. JM may be large, but I see him as lazy. He got away with so much for many years. He's not one to dig a substantial grave for hours on end.

And I'm beginning to wonder if the remains were completely skeletal. I know some wonder about the LE who gave the interview as a ploy. I think that would be a possibility along with none of us truly knowing the end results of remains.

If it was the smaller house (cottage), according to county records it has no basement. The larger home on the property does, however.

 

[strawb93]

Don't know if this has been posted yet, or even if this is the place for it. Nothing much new, but still interesting.

Camblos says he wasn't made aware of the ME's findings until a reporter -- Spencer -- told him.

"If you're asking did anyone officially call me and tell me, nobody did," says Camblos.

Camblos said he has not informed Matthew, who is at the Albemarle- Charlottesville Regional Jail, that forensic testing determined the remains were Graham's.

"I'm sure he knows because they've got TV that's on 24-7," says Camblos. "I'm sure he knows by now."

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=893&sid=3729621

 

[whonos]

I have a hard time keeping up with all of you that are familiar with Charlottesville, and, although I do not know the streets/areas being discussed, I have a general idea of everything going on.

Which is the reason I felt alarmed after reading some comments published one month ago on c-ville.com. I cannot even remember how I got to that web page, but I had previously read the information, not the comments. I have made a search on websleuths for the poster's name "Oz of prevention", so I would not be bringing up a past discussion, but nothing comes up. So, if this has been discussed, please just direct me to the page where it is discussed and overlook my bad timing.

Here is a link to the article, published on 9/22: http://www.c-ville.com/hannah-graham-case-poi-worked-cab-driver/

Here is one of the comments that alarmed me, mostly because of the detailed description and overly calm demeanor, describing the area that should be searched, posted one month ago. Even after the confirmation, which is recorded when you scroll down, as 9 days ago, this "Oz" poster seems very detached, whereas most people would be saying, "Wow I can't believe it, but my hunch was correct!"
Also, a poster named "LG" who directs his/her post to Oz's first post about the area.

These comments seem planted to me. Has anyone seen these? (If you go to the webpage to read the comments, be forewarned, because further down the page is a horrible comment, all in caps. I wish I had not read it.) Is it possible that there were people that knew this stuff was going on? Or maybe "Oz" was not as close as I think. Following are the two comments:

"Avatar
OZ of Prevention • a month ago
Courteney, I would be interested in knowing whether young or old Jesse Matthew is or was living at Ponderosa Trail (as shown on internet address searches for Jesse Matthew) and if it was the POI, when did he live there, or does he still live there? After I graduated (20+ years ago), I lived in a cabin community off of Scottsville Road (SR 20) and used to bike in that area on Old Lynchburg Road near Ponderosa. Red Hill Road provides a decent cut-through from US 29 to both Old Lynchburg Road (just south of Ponderosa Trail) and Scottsville Road (SR 20) to the east; Red Hill Road is a pretty rural road with not a lot of traffic and I don't remember ever seeing a police officer. Interestingly, the route from Ponderosa Trail to Anchorage Farm is about 6 miles, but it's almost entirely rural roads (Red Hill and Old Lynchburg Rd), as Red Hill Rd crosses US 29 one intersection (1/4 mile +/-) southwest of the road to Anchorage Farm. Being a cab driver, one would probably know how easy it is to roll out of town southward on 5th ST Extended and be in a rural area fast. Just an observation; I am praying for Hannah's safe return.
38 • Reply•Share ›
Avatar
LG OZ of Prevention • a month ago
Oz, I really don't know what to do with this information and I don't claim to be a psychic but I do have premonitions that have proved true. On Sunday night I had a very vivid dream about driving with my family and getting lost off the main road ... it was a forested area wtih dirt roads and some fields...then there was a tan farm truck (very old paint) with homemade wooden sides on the farm truck. I saw a figure pick up a lifeless figure and drop in the back of the farm truck. In my dream I told my young son to cover his eyes because as we continued driving on that road there were other bodies. The road was dirt. I then came across similar information about Ponderosa Trail on Monday and zoomed in (sattelite view) and there on the property is the truck. I don't know what to think - - it was just absolutely alarming.
15 •Share › "

 

[jbowman55]

Just want to say that I set up our DVR to record yesterday's Greta van Susteren show when Fox News broadcast it again at 2 am today, and I've watched the piece about Hannah and the OL Rd site.

My take on it is that those two guys didn't really know anything. The one statement that was made that seemed like it might actually be based on fact was that one of them said that a detective corrected him when he called the spot where Hannah was found a "dry creek bed." He implied that she was found in a depression or sunken spot, but not actually a dry creek bed.

And actually the one guy, Williams I think was his name, reached down to the ground and picked up a small amount of the dirt, pine needles, other various material that was on the ground right there, and said something about LE would be looking over all JM's shoes to see if they could find that same material on his shoes. That sounds like it might actually be true.

The rest of it, about dragging vs carrying, and about something happening inside the cottage, I think they were theorizing. It was well, if this happened, there would be footprints, and if that happened, Hannah would have been hard to carry because she was so tall, that sort of thing.

I'm glad I didn't actually stay up until 2 am to watch it. I'd have been plenty p***ed that I wasted my time and lost sleep.

ETA: Please read Foxfire's post #1141 about this subject. I think I have underestimated the background and experience of the "two guys" who did this report. There is probably more validity here than I gave them credit for.

 

[FindHG]

[below in full for dear]

HANNAH GRAHAM
Today's Top Opinion: Hannah's story comes to an end
Posted: Monday, October 27, 2014 10:30 pm

The story ended as many feared it would end. When news first appeared that a student at the University of Virginia was missing, hopes rose that Hannah Graham would be found or appear unharmed on her own. Optimism eroded with every passing hour. Then searchers found human remains in an Albemarle field. On Friday, authorities confirmed the remains are Graham’s.
[modsnip]”
​

http://www.timesdispatch.com/opinion/our-opinion/today-s-top-opinion-hannah-s-story-comes-to-an/article_21cb7085-845a-57a6-b8c3-0227ed4944be.html


added for Hannah Graham,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE2muDZksP4
Grant her eternal rest

 

[FindHG]

Just want to say that I set up our DVR to record yesterday's Greta van Susteren show when Fox News broadcast it again at 2 am today, and I've watched the piece about Hannah and the OL Rd site.

My take on it is that those two guys didn't really know anything. The one statement that was made that seemed like it might actually be based on fact was that one of them said that a detective corrected him when he called the spot where Hannah was found a "dry creek bed." He implied that she was found in a depression or sunken spot, but not actually a dry creek bed.

And actually the one guy, Williams I think was his name, reached down to the ground and picked up a small amount of the dirt, pine needles, other various material that was on the ground right there, and said something about LE would be looking over all JM's shoes to see if they could find that same material on his shoes. That sounds like it might actually be true.

The rest of it, about dragging vs carrying, and about something happening inside the cottage, I think they were theorizing. It was well, if this happened, there would be footprints, and if that happened, Hannah would have been hard to carry because she was so tall, that sort of thing.

I'm glad I didn't actually stay up until 2 am to watch it. I'd have been plenty p***ed that I wasted my time and lost sleep.

Thank you very much. That's very helpful.

Jesse Matthew scheduled to appear in Fairfax court Friday via video
Daily Progress Staff Reports
Posted: Monday, October 27, 2014 5:30 pm

The Fairfax case appears to be the strongest and is likely to be tried first, said Scott Goodman, a local defense attorney who isn’t tied to any of the cases.
“As you might imagine, the rape case is simple because the victim can testify … or if she can’t point at him and say, ‘It’s him,’ the DNA can establish it,” Goodman said. “In Fairfax, the case is built from beginning to end.”
Fairfax prosecutors will have five months to try Matthew, unless his attorney waives the right to a speedy trial. He faces possible life sentences in the Fairfax case. Jim Camblos, the former Albemarle County prosecutor and Matthew’s lawyer in the Graham case, has asked to be his court-appointed attorney in the Fairfax case.

http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/c...cle_89e49baa-5e20-11e4-a1db-0017a43b2370.html


There Is No Instruction Manual For Handling Death On Campus
By Tyler Kingkade Posted: 10/28/2014 7:32 am EDT Updated: 26 minutes ago

"Some students, with a nod to a college nickname, sought to rally the community around a Hoos Got Your Back campaign encouraging people to look out for one another. A Facebook group tracking the latest developments in the search had 44,000 members."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/28/death-on-campus_n_6056550.html


Ind., Va. arrests prompt other cold case investigations
by Larry Copeland, USA TODAY
Oct. 28, 2014 7:18 AM
http://www.guampdn.com/usatoday/article/17836985?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|

 

[ThinkHard]

IMO, JM had no reason to change his methods or tactics if he had managed thus far to get away with possibly 2+ murders. In her condition, when they left Tempo, drunken, or drugged, I am assuming he told her he would take her back to her residence. He may have mentioned he had to make a stop before hand, but it is possible she put her head back and passed out once in the car. I don't feel she would have been alert enough to tell him he missed a turn or question how long it was taking. I also think he may have followed suit and had a couple of clothing items in his car. Bra, shirt, underwear, once HG's DNA was confirmed, it would seem any of those items would substantiate the "intent to defile"

Obviously we do not know exactly where JLM car was parked, but I sort of have a hunch LE does, and has some visual, either eyewitness or cameras...

I'm pretty sure there is a parking garage not far from where Tempo is on Water street....

I do not really buy the "ill give you a ride story" no matter what her state to a total stranger....I feel she must have somehow felt he was familiar and safe.....obviously until it was too late. I just think she would have only agreed to hang out with, go to tempo, or wait for him outside, and leave with him...was if she was somehow aquatinted...even just seeing him around...

Anyway I don't see how he just new her that night, I don't get how even as a former cab driver, he would have pulled a cabi line on Hannah....and it would have worked....why would a cabi bring her for a drink....who would take a ride from a cabi who was drinking? I know he'd offe girls rides when he was a cab driver....but I just don't see the cabi thing coming up at all here. I also do not think he would have said I just need to make one stop first...though I agree she could have passed out on her own very quickly after getting in the car.

Part of the reason this doesn't make sense to me...is because the easy easy route he could have take from the downtown mall....follow market to Ridge, take a left, follow Ridge which changes names but eventually turns into old lynchburg road....within seconds, he would have been driving through a sleeping residential area....and then onto a dark country road. It wouldn't have been more then a matter of minutes before he was out of sight of any possible witness....it is also not in the direction of UVA campus at all...which would have kept them in more populated area, more nightlife, and a higher chance of being seen.

 

[Foxfire]

Originally posted by Foxfire
Anyone else watch; 'On the Record Fox News Greta VanSusteren'

'Searching for Clues segment'?

Did anyone notice the discarded tire near where her body was located? Garbage dump site or JM's tire?
Ted Williams said that he was corrected by a detective when he said that HG's body was located in the dry creek bed. Also, they seemed to indicate that JM came from the vacant cottage with HG, and possibly dragged her to dispose of her body.. I think it is interesting that they indicated that JM came from the cottage. jmo

Just want to say that I set up our DVR to record yesterday's Greta van Susteren show when Fox News broadcast it again at 2 am today, and I've watched the piece about Hannah and the OL Rd site.

My take on it is that those two guys didn't really know anything. The one statement that was made that seemed like it might actually be based on fact was that one of them said that a detective corrected him when he called the spot where Hannah was found a "dry creek bed." He implied that she was found in a depression or sunken spot, but not actually a dry creek bed.

And actually the one guy, Williams I think was his name, reached down to the ground and picked up a small amount of the dirt, pine needles, other various material that was on the ground right there, and said something about LE would be looking over all JM's shoes to see if they could find that same material on his shoes. That sounds like it might actually be true.

The rest of it, about dragging vs carrying, and about something happening inside the cottage, I think they were theorizing. It was well, if this happened, there would be footprints, and if that happened, Hannah would have been hard to carry because she was so tall, that sort of thing.

I'm glad I didn't actually stay up until 2 am to watch it. I'd have been plenty p***ed that I wasted my time and lost sleep.

jbowman55, actually I did stay up until 2AM to watch the 'Searching for Clues' segment on OTR Greta@Fox News. It is amazing to me how two people can watch the same investigative report and come away with completely different opinions, observations, and views. Wished they would post the link for the video of the OTR segment to get other websleuther's views..

Ted Williams; the AA investigative reporter in the segment is an experienced retired DC homicide Investigator and now an active Defense Attorney.. Griff Jenkins, is a Washington-based correspondent for FNC, producer, and investigative reporter for <11 years>. GJ produced the recent segment on OTR; 'Inside the home of Jesse Matthew' where he found a picture possibly indicating drug residue that was missed by CSI--> http://video.foxnews.com/v/38517240...thew/?playlist_id=1849476279001#sp=show-clips

Both T Williams and G Jenkins, have been in VA for weeks now.. Being retired LE, ACPD/CPD investigators would likely share info with TW that they wouldn't with others. JMO

jbowman55, although we all look through same eyes, we see entirely different things...and that's a good thing...imo

 

[ThinkHard]

I've been stewing on the 'was HG drugged or not' question for sometime. I'm from New Orleans and all opinions aside, people start drinking much younger here than in other areas of the country and even the state. Legality of the issue aside, by 18, going to bars and going out and having a few drinks over the course of the night on a weekend was not that big of a deal for me when i got to college and was living on my own. Sure there were bars and house parties that got busted for underage drinking- even here, but we still got away with a lot when it came to "partying." So I went to LSU which is roughly an hour away from New Orleans and many other kids from New Orleans went there as well. I could always sp I think the difference between the underage kids from NOLA be underage kids from other areas of Louisiana and the country because the NOLA kids (not all of them but many of them) were a little more seasoned. We didn't tend to get quite as drunk at any opportunity and we had made mistakes in the past or seen friends who had been impacted by decisions made when drinking and we tended to show a bit more caution. Not because we were in any way superior but because we had learned the harsh lessons now being learned by others while we were in High school. This isn't a passing of judgement on Hannahor.other similar victims Iit's simply my insight as to the issue of why she may have gotten into a vehicle with JLM. Hannah was not even 17 when she first arrived at UVA and only 18 when she was robbed of her innocence and her life. She may not have really ventured into the party world many first experience in college for a long enough period to realize that we must question the motives of strangers and sadly even acquit ancestors and friends, that we should constantly survey our surroundings, that we must not let our guard down even in moments of intoxication though admittedly that is a difficult thing to stick to when drinking at a young age. So, I am not saying she wasn't drugged and I'm not saying she was drugged but either way, she had probably not had previous experiences that led her to be suspicious of JLMs "act" of good will. She may have been on the cusp of inebriated where she had been drinking hard liquor and the beer he purchased in combination with the hard liquor she had been drinking brought on the effects of the "mixing different types of alcohol" rendering her less cautious. She probably realized it wasn't ideal but the effects of her drinking probably had her in the "this is an innocent situation" "he seems like a trustworthy guy who will get me where I need to go" kind of mindset. I found that during my early college years, I still had friends who would let their guards down and make decisions after heavy drinking that they would NEVER have fathomed themselves making when they were sober. Sometimes they lucked out and were unharmed or were stopped by another friend who had a little more of their "wits" about them, but in general, alcohol lowers people's inhibitions and it does so at a rate that increases with the more someone consumes and with the less someone has experience with consuming. So compounded with the fact HG may not have ever had a scary/"too close to home" experience in the past to inspire her to be more suspicious of everyone and everything around her, it's very plausible that she did leave willingly with JLM under the impression that he was just a friendly guy offering her a solution to the fact that she was stranded far from home (regardless of what solution he offered whether it was a ride to her apartment, to the party she last texted about or to his place for her to "sober up") and under the influence she didn't refuse his.offer. DISCLAIMER: I am in no way blaming HG and in no way excusing JM. I am simply trying to shed light on how this may have been played out based on personal experiences in the past and my feelings that sometimes enough alcohol can lead even the smartest and brightest people to believe a decision is a good one when they may never have had that belief in a less intoxicated state. It's a sick world we live in where someone so much older and larger would take advantage of an innocent (possibly.naive and rightfully so at only 18 yrs old) girl not even half his size. Especially when he would likely have been horrified had his sister suffered atrocities similar to those he committed against other young women,

Thanks so much for your input. I'd just like to address a couple things....I've never been to NOLA and can't compare anything to it....but I can tell you heavy, bar hopping, underage drinking may not be the norm in HS....but I can assure you NOLA doesn't have the only kids in the country drinking like that early....kids who grow up in NYC, and go to exclusive private schools....grow up hitting more then just alcohol early. There are even some bars, people who grew up there won't go to after high school...cause its a considered a "high school bar", and that's just one example.

In this situation, I agree Hannah seems on the innocent end of the spectrum. And I agree that had I been at a college party with her, shed be likely one of the kids I didn't suspect did a lot of drinking in HS. Then again even the nerds in my HS where getting wasted on wknds.

As far as where Hannah grew up, I don't know much about Alexandria, other then its beautiful, and expensive....as are most of the suburbs of DC. I have good friends from Potomac and Bethesda, MD suburbs of DC...and I can tell you, for what its worth, from first handed experience, that at least in neighboring towns...the public high school kids might not have bar hopped but they partied hard.