Hannah Graham: The Search - #2

[jamicat]

I think you're wording is a little misleading. We know that in the time frame of Morgan's disappearance that JM had his taxi license, however, we don't know for certain that he was driving a taxi on that particular night. Just a clarification, so that people don't assume that it has been confirmed that JM was in fact driving a taxi that night.
I had not heard/read anything about the Bass family being on a cruise during the time of Morgan's disappearance - do you remember where you heard/read that info? I've not been able to find anything with a Google search.

Killers will sometimes return to the scene of their crimes for psychological or physiological release/comfort. The reminder of their crimes is euphoric - it can become an obsession to recreate that feeling, much like a drug addict.

Some link was found between MH and Hannah's case. Le hasn't said what it is. Hints that it involves DNA, but nothing to quore for sure No idea whether JM was driving a taxi that night or what he was doing at all that night, and no word that anyone can pinpoint that Might be difficult I d have tough time alibiing anyone that night even my self. Maybe cab records were kept, If he were driving a cab actively that time, there'd be some chance one could see if he was "on " that night, had a cab. But reports that MH was hitchhiking are out there too. JM or anyone could have been just cruising along and saw her and picked her up. With so much time in between, forensic evidence, DNA evidence will be very important in that case. No charges yet.

Doesn't matter if Bass family was on a cruise or on the farm. It's a huge farm and where MH;s body was found, it 's easy to see that it was highly unlikely that anyone would have noticed someone dumping it there. No one reported a car coming near the place, or anyone dumping anything. JM nor anyone was in the picture for MH.

 

[Heroine]

Some link was found between MH and Hannah's case. Le hasn't said what it is. Hints that it involves DNA, but nothing to quore for sure No idea whether JM was driving a taxi that night or what he was doing at all that night, and no word that anyone can pinpoint that Might be difficult I d have tough time alibiing anyone that night even my self. Maybe cab records were kept, If he were driving a cab actively that time, there'd be some chance one could see if he was "on " that night, had a cab. But reports that MH was hitchhiking are out there too. JM or anyone could have been just cruising along and saw her and picked her up. With so much time in between, forensic evidence, DNA evidence will be very important in that case. No charges yet.

Doesn't matter if Bass family was on a cruise or on the farm. It's a huge farm and where MH;s body was found, it 's easy to see that it was highly unlikely that anyone would have noticed someone dumping it there. No one reported a car coming near the place, or anyone dumping anything. JM nor anyone was in the picture for MH.

It was stated that he was driving a taxi that night in this video by the taxi company itself...
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/10/05/pkg-matthew-timeline.cnn.html

 

[wall0214]

Actually, in one of the latest news reports, where they spoke with the taxi company, they stated that he was driving a taxi that night, so she's accurate in her wording.
Here's the link to the video where it was stated that he was driving a taxi the night MH disappeared...
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2014/10/05/pkg-matthew-timeline.cnn&video_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.websleuths.com%2Fforums%2Fshowthread.php%3F257839-JLM-What-Do-We-Know-About-Him%26p%3D11053742

I hadn't seen that interview. It's interesting that Brown now says that JM was working that night - he has said previously that he bought the company a few years ago and there are no records to indicate whether JM was working during the time of MH's disappearance. I'd be curious to know why his sentiment has now changed.

 

[wendle83]

I dreamed twice now that Hannah was found on 10/25/14....I wake up right after the date so i am clueless as to where or her condition....and I keep waking up with Ellie, Elah, Alli or alley with wood on my mind like Elliewood or something. I AM NOT PHYSIC but have had accurate dreams before....can anyone put something together with any of that? Like maybe a county, farm or road maybe because I am clueless lol

You should call the tip line and tell them that you have a feeling about Elliewood Ave. It may give you some peace of mind.

 

[FindHG]

Thanks for your answers!

Somhe could assume that no one might go there for years.

My hubby helped on farms even as a boy of around 8 or 10 so I can see the perp,working there or having a friend that did. I can see him sneaking on the property as a kid.

If he wore a headlamp, would he be noticed?

People are awake early on farms.

I do think HG is somewhere that he has scoped out

JM was found where he was, one road in. You could go there, wait for everyone to leave, and lay low. JM may have used the same MO because it worked. Travel when nobody takes notice. Early risers around, so get to where you're going before people take notice. Go up high so you can see the road in, leave unnoticed.

 

[ksj3]

JM leaves Newport October, 2003. He next pops up January 2007 in Charlottesville. Any account for the missing time?

The timeline I posted may have been a first copy. Here is what's on the most recent for those years, though he does seem to have "disappeared" to some extent. I know some people were working on finding out where he received these traffic offenses, but I don't know that that's been done yet.

2004
6/17/04 – Traffic Charge: Fail to obey traffic signal
8/5/04 – Hearing –guilty in absentia 6/17/04 – Fail to obey traffic signal
~~09/10/04 Namus # 960 - African American Female Found - EPI 3 years - age 40-60 - Norfolk City, VA https://identifyus.org/en/cases/960

2005
(ADDED) Obtained taxi license per CNN
~~1/24/05 Crystal Soles - Andrews, SC http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/..._crystal.htmll
~~1/28/05 Vestora Leatrise Spriggs - Norfolk, VA http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...s_vestora.html
3/04/05 – Traffic Charge: Speeding
4/22/05 – Hearing: waived/paid – Buckingham General District Court (Charlottesville address) 3/04/05 – Traffic Charge: Speeding
~~9/24/2005 Fairfax, VA Sexual Assault http://www.readthehook.com/67132/mor...ope-fresh-fear
~~10/21/05 Kathleen Hulderman missing - Chesapeake City, VA http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/..._kathleen.html

2006
(ADDED) Had taxi license per CNN
2/1/06 – Traffic Charge: failure to obey stop sign
2/21/06 – Hearing: guilty 2/1/06 – failure to obey stop sign
6/21/06 – Traffic Charge: speeding
7/24/06 – Traffic Charge: speeding
7/25/06 – Hearing – cont 6/21/06 – speeding
8/9/06 – Hearing – guilty 7/24/06 – speeding
8/22/06 – Hearing –not guilty 6/21/06 – speeding
~~8/26/06 Qauisra Khan missing - Alexandria, VA www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/khan_qasira.html

EDIT: See Post #10 in maps and timelines thread for what I believe is the most up-to-date timeline.

 

[Dogface]

I dreamed twice now that Hannah was found on 10/25/14....I wake up right after the date so i am clueless as to where or her condition....and I keep waking up with Ellie, Elah, Alli or alley with wood on my mind like Elliewood or something. I AM NOT PHYSIC but have had accurate dreams before....can anyone put something together with any of that? Like maybe a county, farm or road maybe because I am clueless lol

There's been video on news reports showing him coaching on the sidelines.

Interesting!

Is there a map showing what areas have been searched?

 

[Le Singe]

JM leaves Newport October, 2003. He next pops up January 2007 in Charlottesville. Any account for the missing time?

he raped some one in fairfax virgina on 9/24/2005

 

[SassyFras]

Forgive me if I've missed something, but has a statement been released from LE addressing why they've seemingly stopped utilizing volunteer searchers? The last report I read stated that they had 35 SAR professionals on the ground but no mention of volunteer groups.

Having just been in that area this weekend, it would seem to me that LE could use all the help they could get working the land. Currently you are literally lucky to see 10 feet in front of you due to the heavy foliage and leaves.

Guess I'm curious as to what the thought process is on that.

 

[sarah7855]

It has recently been reported that the search for Hannah is focused around an "8 mile radius". I find this somewhat specific. I am not familiar with how cell phone pings and towers work, but could this specified search area be related to tracking Jesse's cell phone location on the night Hannah disappeared? Another possibility could include gas and mileage in the car, if they were able to locate information from receipts or Credit Card purchases or video of him filling up with gas before or after the disappearance. I just think there is some reason the search is focused within a specific area (8 mile and radius being the key words). Why not a broader number like 10 miles within Charlottesville or 20 miles east? Any thoughts?

Here is what Mark Eggeman of the Virginia Department of Emergency Management said about the 8 mile search radius, from this article:

“We are going to cover an 8-mile radius, which again goes back to some of the statistics from a national study of similar cases like this, that is going to be our primary objective to cover this weekend to make sure we have fully covered every area that meets that,” said Eggeman.

I agree, it would seem more logical on first thought to choose, say, a 10 mile (or other more even number) radius, but with the terrain being what it is, adding two or more extra miles to the search area is a daunting task. It makes sense they chose to cover that 8 mile radius as a general search based on statistics and are then focusing on other specific areas outside of that area based on leads.

I am not very sure they have cell or vehicle/related info on Jesse. For one, we know Morgan's cell phone battery was removed. We know that Hannah's cell phone hasn't been recovered, so my thought is that JM is smart about cell technology and pings, and that it's not too far a stretch to think he would be as careful with his own cell phone. I also think that LE doesn't have much info to trace his movements after leaving the area with Hannah that night because of statements like this one, from this article:

At a briefing earlier Monday, investigators asked people who knew Matthew, a former college football lineman and sometime cab driver, to come forward with information so that they can develop a better profile of him. As they did, about 35 people scoured an area of hundreds of square miles surrounding downtown.

Longo said in the interview that the goal of asking for more information about Matthew was to try to figure out areas he may have been familiar with as they assess where to focus their search.

"What are the places where he's most comfortable? ... If you were to take someone against their will, you're going to take them to someplace likely where you're comfortable. You're not going to go out in the dark and hope for the best," he said.

I think it was a frustration point with MH's parents that LE working on the MH case did not go as public as Chief Longo has A lot has to do with the PC in charge and also that MH disappeared in a place, at a time where it just wasn't possible to pinpoint any person or direction. People saw her there, and then she was gone, and no clue as to who was last with her at that point. Hard to chase anything down with a concert letting out and all that traffic.

WIth Hannah, it's pretty clear she left with JM. He does hold an important key as to where she went next. Finger pointing right at him. With MH, no such direction. LE literally did not have a clue,

It was a different situation with MH. She was picked up in a higly public area with so much happening, concert letting out with traffic and people everywhere. If JM was indeed the cab driver or whatever who picked her up, he'd want to get away from that crowd.

(RSBM)

I just wanted to clarify that there was no concert traffic going on when Morgan disappeared. She left the arena before even Metallica went on, so the show was far from over. She was spotted by a few different witnesses in a few different areas around the arena. There was a search done around the bridge where she was last seen hitchhiking, but you are right, LE didn't have much, if anything, other than that.

It was in waist high grass, in the middle of such a field, quite the distance from any road, that MH was found. Yes, it was quite an accident. The farmer saw something unusual when he was checking on his fencing and went over to see what it was. It was January, I believe when the grass was not as thick. The body was terribly beaten up, bones broken. From what I have read, it was not an easily accessible spot and to do that at night would have been particularly difficult. No path just lots of high thick grass. JM would have had to have driven his car as close as possible to access there and then hauled her body from vehicle to that spot. At night that would have really been treacherous. who knows if he did it in the dark or in the early morning light where he could at least see where he was going. My guess is that he may have done the same with Hannah somewhere. He left the are around 2 AM. When is sun rise? Not many people around and about very early Saturday morning and he would have light so doesn't fall into a ditch (don't you wish) or get hurt.

I visited the farm years ago as a guest of the owners, so perhaps I can answer some of your questions.

The farm is quite large, with many areas that are difficult or nearly impossible to access. I believe that MH was found in one of these. I recall a press report in which the owner stated that LE should look into the people who have worked on his property, since the site would not likely be known to anyone not familiar with it.

I don't know about kids, but I believe the owner has had several employees over the years. Now that there's a "forensic link" between JLM and MH, I presume that LE is looking into whether JLM worked there or knew someone who worked there. It' not very far from the area where JLM grew up and went to grade school.

It's a very large farm. The cattle graze the fields when possible, I believe.

I wanted to add to the details provided by others regarding Morgan's recovery.

This link below contains the most extensive collection of maps of the farm where Morgan was recovered that I've ever seen. You really get a feel for the area and potential routes JM could have taken. I highly recommend taking a look:

http://persiflage.proboards.com/thread/27

Here is an aerial photo of the recovery scene:



While looking for information regarding any employees of the farm, I found the following interesting info in this article:

The day after he found Harrington’s remains, Bass said "I did give them the names of people who come to the farm frequently"—among them, maintenance workers, acquaintances of his daughter, and a complete list of tenants who have lived in a farm house on his property, dating back 20 years.

"I happened to’ve kept leases, so I had the names," he told C-VILLE. "No current addresses, but [Virginia State Police] have their names."

While looking for the above information, I found the following in this article:

Bass told reporters that Harrington’s remains were located within 1.5 miles from the entrance to his home. The Anchorage Farm property is partially bordered by a few other roads—Monacan Trail Road in front, roughly two miles of Red Hill Road, and less than three miles of residential roads within neighboring Blandemar Farm and Blandemar Farm Estates.

According to CrimeReports.com—a web site that maps crime data, linked from the Albemarle County Police Department’s web-site—there were two separate assault incidents reported in the month before Harrington’s discovery. The first, dated December 26, 2009, is listed at the 1800 block of Red Hill Road—less than 2 miles from the entrance to Bass’ property. The most recent occurred on January 6, in the 4900 block of Monacan Trail Road, less than 7 miles from the Anchorage Farm entrance. A call to Albemarle Police about those incidents was not returned by press time.

 

[CRC]

I dreamed twice now that Hannah was found on 10/25/14....I wake up right after the date so i am clueless as to where or her condition....and I keep waking up with Ellie, Elah, Alli or alley with wood on my mind like Elliewood or something. I AM NOT PHYSIC but have had accurate dreams before....can anyone put something together with any of that? Like maybe a county, farm or road maybe because I am clueless lol

There is an Elliewood Ave in C'ville near the University.
(Newbie here, by the way. I've been lurking but thought I would let you know that Elliewood Ave does exist in C'ville)

 

[ksj3]

https://twitter.com/NBC29/status/519552289883713537

Chief Longo says time gap is closing on where JM was the night Hannah disappeared.

 

[jamicat]

Forgive me if I've missed something, but has a statement been released from LE addressing why they've seemingly stopped utilizing volunteer searchers? The last report I read stated that they had 35 SAR professionals on the ground but no mention of volunteer groups.

Having just been in that area this weekend, it would seem to me that LE could use all the help they could get working the land. Currently you are literally lucky to see 10 feet in front of you due to the heavy foliage and leaves.

Guess I'm curious as to what the thought process is on that.

My guess is that the risks are too high when the grounds are rough and dangerous. They need pros to canvass that sort of terrain.

I have no idea how LE is going to search a lot of the privately owned land We have family farms that we cannot possibly search. Dangerous and huge. If something like this happened around them, we'd be hard put to help LE out in ruling out that anything of interest on that property. Heck I can't even search all of my own less than an acre personal property where I live. I have some swayles and undergrowtht that can hide a lot of things. A football, a basketball disappears in there and it has taken 20 minutes to find it when we KNOW it's in there. Some of the farmland is part swamp. We would have to tell LE that they could come search it themselves, and I would not want any amateurs on it who could hurt themselves. Hard core search pros would be needed.

 

[whiskers]

This is fascinating. I'd forgotten Lt. Radar said that. And I find it interesting he said the murderer returns at times of extreme stress. I'm not questioning him, but how does LE that??!! I had no idea murderers went back to visit their bodies.

Do they do that to watch them decompose?? To make sure they are totally gone forever??

And I just read above about Ted Bundy. My G*d what is wrong with some people. I want to un-read that. :gaah:

I've often wondered why Lt. Rader said that the murderer of Morgan returned to that spot at times of extreme stress. It makes me wonder if JM would return to the scene of the crime and absent mindedly discard his cigarette butts around MH's remains?!? He thought her body was so well hidden that she'd never be found.

 

[Heroine]

Wasn't it stated at some point during the MH investigation that teens used to come out to the farm and have parties or something to that affect? Let me see if I can locate an article about it.

 

[KenoshaKid]

I dreamed twice now that Hannah was found on 10/25/14....I wake up right after the date so i am clueless as to where or her condition....and I keep waking up with Ellie, Elah, Alli or alley with wood on my mind like Elliewood or something. I AM NOT PHYSIC but have had accurate dreams before....can anyone put something together with any of that? Like maybe a county, farm or road maybe because I am clueless lol

She lives close to Elliewood Ave.

 

[Emaa]

Interesting!

Is there a map showing what areas have been searched?

I originally watched the video on local NBC29, but had a hard time searching their site. DM pulled the clip (and gave ch 29 credit) posting it on one of their stories. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glLvvP2lanE

 

[johnallore]

Forgive me if I've missed something, but has a statement been released from LE addressing why they've seemingly stopped utilizing volunteer searchers? The last report I read stated that they had 35 SAR professionals on the ground but no mention of volunteer groups.

Having just been in that area this weekend, it would seem to me that LE could use all the help they could get working the land. Currently you are literally lucky to see 10 feet in front of you due to the heavy foliage and leaves.

Guess I'm curious as to what the thought process is on that.

My guess is they want to lock it down; compromise a fast search for a quality search. Many volunteers are top quality; but LE would have less control over the operation.

 

[ILOKAL]

OT....Emaa, I must be loosing my mind because I just tried to squash the bug on your profile pic lol

You're not alone Hannahmaie! LOL

 

[jamicat]

Wasn't it stated at some point during the MH investigation that teens used to come out to the farm and have parties or something to that affect? Let me see if I can locate an article about it.

Yes. I read that too. But I don't think it was out in those fields. There is some shelter/house around there. With waist high grass, walking through that field would not have been fun or easy. Doubt anyone would want to do that for any distance I can't imagine having to hunt through that right now, can you? That grass slashes and cuts, and it can grow very thickly so seeing anything on the ground not right under you is nigh impossible. I wonder if drones can just go through growth like that I would not offer to search through a field like that, unless it was a last resort I don't feel like I'd be likely to find anything hidden in that kind of growth. How anyone walked through that is beyond me.