Hannah Graham: The Search - #4

[GeeButtersnaps]

Maybe the whole thing is a morale-building exercise, a way to elicit the public's continued involvement in the case. I find it hard to believe that they really want 200 inexperienced people tromping through a potential crime scene.

All my opinion only, pure speculation.

But that's no different than the other organized volunteer search which could have had many more unqualified people traipsing through a potential crime scene..and I'm sure like that last one these volunteers will be briefed before going out and have qualified team leads, etc..

 

[MJPeony]

Thanks folks. Sorry my brain was not firing on all cylinders with the latest search info.

It does sound like the WCP search might be more to keep people involved and making efforts. It's great to see that there were so many people still wanting to pitch in. I am anxious to hear results of the digging. That sounds promising.

 

[LG3]

Will volunteers do the actual digging?

Good question! You would think they would not want public searchers over that area, if that's the case. Way too big a possibility of contamination of evidence.

 

[jbowman55]

But that's no different than the other organized volunteer search which could have had many more unqualified people traipsing through a potential crime scene..and I'm sure like that last one these volunteers will be briefed before going out and have qualified team leads, etc..

Sorry, I guess I didn't express that as diplomatically as I might have. At any rate, it's just a thought, and especially since they've been saying for more than a week that they wanted only professional searchers, in order to better preserve evidence.

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/loc...dent-hannah-graham-search-continues/16870073/

 

[LG3]

I imagine if they think there is something there, they will come prepared with everything they need to document and process what they find.

For people who are experts or maybe even trained somewhat, they can recognize disturbed soil.

I imagine it sinks in and the rain would have a big impact on revealing soil that has been displaced.

If not Hannah, then maybe someome else

Good point - it has rained for 3 solid days here in Charlottesville. We finally got a break of sun yesterday. I went out to pooper scoop my yard only to realize how many leaves had come down in the three days of storms. I had trouble even finding the poop; I can only imagine how much harder it now is to search for a possible body amongst the foliage. Virginia really is known for its fall season, but also known for hunting and outdoor activity. I sure hope the search for Hannah continues as it is imperative for bringing JM down.

 

[cluciano63]

I imagine police or forensics will do any digging.

 

[GeeButtersnaps]

Sorry, I guess I didn't express that as diplomatically as I might have. At any rate, it's just a thought, and especially since they've been saying for more than a week that they wanted only professional searchers, in order to better preserve evidence.

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/loc...dent-hannah-graham-search-continues/16870073/

It didn't seem undiplomatic to me lol I was just saying..I guess I think of it no different than asking landowners to check their property just a bit more organized and I'm sure they're all advised to only report anything they find not to touch..

 

[LG3]

But that's no different than the other organized volunteer search which could have had many more unqualified people traipsing through a potential crime scene..and I'm sure like that last one these volunteers will be briefed before going out and have qualified team leads, etc..

Good points on both ends. I think maybe now that it's been over a month, and they've covered the 8 mile radius, they're willing to enlist the public to help again. IMO, they trust that the searchers would be respectful to the possible sighting of a crime scene, and always under command of a search leader. I think they know the public wants and needs to help, so they are trusting them to do so under supervision. I also believe LE are convinced that JM was responsible for HG's disappearance and possible murder, MH's murder, and possibly others. So they are pulling out all the stops to make sure HG is found, so that women stop disappearing from the Charlottesville area, and so that they can bring peace to a community that has been ravaged by young women's disappearances for at least ten years. They are behind the "Save the Next Girl" act, and I think they have gone above and beyond in this case. As for their criticism on not focusing as much effort on other missing women, people have to realize this is different in the case that they actually believe they have the perp. They actually have the man who may be responsible for serial rapes and murders for a ten year span. It's not a white girl thing, a UVA thing, or a race thing. They want to get a very sick person who hurts women behind bars so that he can't ever hurt another woman, and they know the key to that is finding the last young woman he was seen with before she disappeared. Chief Longo may feel personally involved or affected in their search for Hannah, but it's not just about her. It's about ending a nightmare for this community. Chief Longo is determined to find Hannah for so many reasons, not just because she was a UVA student. For anyone to insinuate that is wrong. The search for Hannah is at the heart of the entire Charlottesville community, and there are SO many reasons why she needs to be found. Her family, her dignity, her justice, MH's justice, and anyone else who was or could possibly be hurt by this monster.

 

[themom]

Good points on both ends. I think maybe now that it's been over a month, and they've covered the 8 mile radius, they're willing to enlist the public to help again. IMO, they trust that the searchers would be respectful to the possible sighting of a crime scene, and always under command of a search leader. I think they know the public wants and needs to help, so they are trusting them to do so under supervision. I also believe LE are convinced that JM was responsible for HG's disappearance and possible murder, MH's murder, and possibly others. So they are pulling out all the stops to make sure HG is found, so that women stop disappearing from the Charlottesville area, and so that they can bring peace to a community that has been ravaged by young women's disappearances for at least ten years. They are behind the "Save the Next Girl" act, and I think they have gone above and beyond in this case. As for their criticism on not focusing as much effort on other missing women, people have to realize this is different in the case that they actually believe they have the perp. They actually have the man who may be responsible for serial rapes and murders for a ten year span. It's not a white girl thing, a UVA thing, or a race thing. They want to get a very sick person who hurts women behind bars so that he can't ever hurt another woman, and they know the key to that is finding the last young woman he was seen with before she disappeared. Chief Longo may feel personally involved or affected in their search for Hannah, but it's not just about her. It's about ending a nightmare for this community. Chief Longo is determined to find Hannah for so many reasons, not just because she was a UVA student. For anyone to insinuate that is wrong. The search for Hannah is at the heart of the entire Charlottesville community, and there are SO many reasons why she needs to be found. Her family, her dignity, her justice, MH's justice, and anyone else who was or could possibly be hurt by this monster.

Thank you.[emoji177]

 

[Soulmagent]

I had the same thought, because at one point I recall hearing Wolf or Coy refer to it as Hike for Hannah, like it had been given a name. Made me think of a walk-a-thon or something...

http://hikeforhannah.brmrg.org/

 

[FindHG]

http://hikeforhannah.brmrg.org/

Read on the Help Find Hannah Graham facebook page that 200 people signed within 4 hrs.

 

[SolverGameChanger]

This is my first post.

With respect to searching terrain and avoiding contaminating evidence by large crowds.

If someone has influence to suggest the use of satellite imagery and crowd sourcing site tomnod it may be useful to the searchers.


This was done in the case of the missing Malaysia Airline flight this past year. The crowd sourcing site is www.tomnod.com.

See the reference:
http://www.tomnod.com/campaign/mh370_indian_ocean

I would like to see this used as a routine for other extended investigations as a routine.

 

[Foxfire]

But that's no different than the other organized volunteer search which could have had many more unqualified people traipsing through a potential crime scene..and I'm sure like that last one these volunteers will be briefed before going out and have qualified team leads, etc..

GeeButtersnaps, I honor and respect your opinion, but respectfully disagree...
We hear this a lot about unqualified people traipsing through potential crime scenes,etc.. As a member of a SAR, imo it doesn't take professional SAR training to perceive the seriousness of a missing/murdered person's search. Many, if not most folks are retired military, public safety; LE, FD, CD, etc., and others are hunters, fishermen, and other outdoor persons.. Many, if not most missing/murdered person's remains are located by untrained SAR professionals..

Although professional SARs personnel are preferred in a m/m person search, and I have nothing but the utmost respect for all those that selflessly give up their time, efforts and resource$ volunteering on searches. There are many examples of remains being overlooked by the trained professionals; Karen Swift(TN), Holly Bobo(TN), Meredith Emerson(GA), etc...
Due to the large geographical areas in many m/m persons searches. Imo, the more searchers involved, the larger the area searched, and the higher probability that the victim/s or significant items in the investigation will be located... jmo

Holly Bobo(TN) Volunteer Search 04/2011 Easter Sunday - Slideshow
http://www.jacksonsun.com/apps/pbcs...OTOGALLERIES01&Lopenr=104240801&Ref=PH&Item=0

 

[ksj3]

GeeButtersnaps, I honor and respect your opinion, but respectfully disagree...
We hear this a lot about unqualified people traipsing through potential crime scenes,etc.. As a member of a SAR, imo it doesn't take professional SAR training to perceive the seriousness of a missing/murdered person's search. Many, if not most folks are retired military, public safety; LE, FD, CD, etc., and others are hunters, fishermen, and other outdoor persons.. Many, if not most missing/murdered person's remains are located by untrained SAR professionals..

Although professional SARs personnel are preferred in a m/m person search, and I have nothing but the utmost respect for all those that selflessly give up their time, efforts and resource$ volunteering on searches. There are many examples of remains being overlooked by the trained professionals; Karen Swift(TN), Holly Bobo(TN), Meredith Emerson(GA), etc...
Due to the large geographical areas in many m/m persons searches. Imo, the more searchers involved, the larger the area searched, and the higher probability that the victim/s or significant items in the investigation will be located... jmo

Holly Bobo(TN) Volunteer Search 04/2011 Easter Sunday - Slideshow
http://www.jacksonsun.com/apps/pbcs...OTOGALLERIES01&Lopenr=104240801&Ref=PH&Item=0

If it helps any, these are the instructions given to folks interested in volunteering:
Search Procedures:


Observe everything. Mention anything that may be significant.
Trust your instinct. What is out of place?
Keep talking to a minimum. We are also LISTENING as we search.
Check everywhere … under, around, behind … thoroughness is key!
When in doubt, CALL A HALT (and call Base)!
Look back from time to time for another perspective.
Never touch anything that may be a clue. Call your team leader.
Thank you! Your community is in your debt.

http://hikeforhannah.brmrg.org/emergentvolunteerinformation.php

 

[GeeButtersnaps]

GeeButtersnaps, I honor and respect your opinion, but respectfully disagree...
We hear this a lot about unqualified people traipsing through potential crime scenes,etc.. As a member of a SAR, imo it doesn't take professional SAR training to perceive the seriousness of a missing/murdered person's search. Many, if not most folks are retired military, public safety; LE, FD, CD, etc., and others are hunters, fishermen, and other outdoor persons.. Many, if not most missing/murdered person's remains are located by untrained SAR professionals..

Although professional SARs personnel are preferred in a m/m person search, and I have nothing but the utmost respect for all those that selflessly give up their time, efforts and resource$ volunteering on searches. There are many examples of remains being overlooked by the trained professionals; Karen Swift(TN), Holly Bobo(TN), Meredith Emerson(GA), etc...
Due to the large geographical areas in many m/m persons searches. Imo, the more searchers involved, the larger the area searched, and the higher probability that the victim/s or significant items in the investigation will be located... jmo

Holly Bobo(TN) Volunteer Search 04/2011 Easter Sunday - Slideshow
http://www.jacksonsun.com/apps/pbcs...OTOGALLERIES01&Lopenr=104240801&Ref=PH&Item=0

That was actually exactly what I was trying to say lol not the opposite! I was responding to someone who said they didn't think LE would want untrained people traipsing around a potential crime scene and my thoughts were they would want more eyes on the ground just like they did with the first organized volunteer search..unless I really misread your comments here then please let me know..

 

[Hank Scorpio]

I see both sides here
As a K9 SAR team member, all I can say is I hope they have already run K9 teams in there....because if not it just made the dog teams job a little harder. Not impossible...just harder.
But, as far as evidence goes? Ya, there wont be much to really go wrong there. Actually, if anything it leads me to believe even stronger that there is already a good base of evidence. If not, then yes, they might be concerned about extra footprints, etc... at a potential crime scene.

 

[Foxfire]

That was actually exactly what I was trying to say lol not the opposite! I was responding to someone who said they didn't think LE would want untrained people traipsing around a potential crime scene and my thoughts were they would want more eyes on the ground just like they did with the first organized volunteer search..unless I really misread your comments here then please let me know..

Sorry GeeButtersnaps, I guess that I misinterpreted your post.. One of the most important points that I omitted imo, is that it also gives the entire community a sense of self worth by contributing, while sending a loud and clear message to other would be predators that if you harm one of our citizens, you will face swift justice...

 

[SolverGameChanger]

This is my first post.

With respect to searching terrain and avoiding contaminating evidence by large crowds.

If someone has influence to suggest the use of satellite imagery and crowd sourcing site tomnod it may be useful to the searchers.


This was done in the case of the missing Malaysia Airline flight this past year. The crowd sourcing site is www.tomnod.com.

See the reference:
http://www.tomnod.com/campaign/mh370_indian_ocean

I would like to see this used as a routine for other extended investigations.

This is a good overview of www.tomnod.com.

See link: http://imgur.com/t/tomnod/7SJPV

If someone of authority is able to recommend a new project over a 150 mile diameter circle around the search region I can image several thousand contributors to the effort.

 

[GeeButtersnaps]

Sorry GeeButtersnaps, I guess that I misinterpreted your post.. One of the most important points that I omitted imo, is that it also gives the entire community a sense of self worth by contributing, while sending a loud and clear message to other would be predators that if you harm one of our citizens, you will face swift justice...

Yes exactly my feelings Foxfire. Thank you! To me it just makes total sense when you're searching for a needle in a haystack you need all the eyes you can get. And I can understand the feeling in the community of wanting to help all they can. I wish there was something I could do as well. Just drives me crazy.

 

[Soulmagent]

I see both sides here
As a K9 SAR team member, all I can say is I hope they have already run K9 teams in there....because if not it just made the dog teams job a little harder. Not impossible...just harder.
But, as far as evidence goes? Ya, there wont be much to really go wrong there. Actually, if anything it leads me to believe even stronger that there is already a good base of evidence. If not, then yes, they might be concerned about extra footprints, etc... at a potential crime scene.

Off topic kinda...

Besides a HRD dog alert , what other signs would there be you had stumbled across a buried body ..a few seasons buried? Are there any? How would it look and what would it feel like if you stepped on it , if it were in the woods?